Emergency. Please help. AGC got stroke twice. Please help.

[Taha]

Emergency. Please i need help. My african grey congo is around 2.5 years old. He is a healthy and happy bird playful and talkative. I did not see any health symptoms in previous days. Today morning he was just singing casually and just screamed and dropped down to the floor and was lying upside down with claws tightly squeezed and no response. It looked like a seziure or stroke. My mother took him out of the cage and sprayed some water and tried to rub his back and belly but he was not responding for a few seconds but then pulse came back. But he looked very weak. I live in a country where there are absoulotly NO Avian vets in any town or city. Only vets are for cats and dogs. Few vets also deal with poultry but not certified for parrots. I immediatly called a vet who lived near by he came urgently and checked him and his pulse and just an overall inspection and said that it might be a heat stroke as temp this summer here are very high but my parrot is always indoor and always have fan cooling ventilation. Or the vet said it might be deficiency or weakness. He said to just keep watch and try to feed him fruits. After the vet left i tried to feed him his favorite fruit mango but he wasnt eating and was trying to push my hand away aggresively as he was not in the mood to eat. As he was pushing my hand away suddenly again the stroke/sezuire came again he screamed and dropped to the floor again. My hands were shaking again and was not able to do anything but my mother took him out of the cage and again tried to rub on his back and belly but he was not responding and his eyes were closed and his head hanged down as if there was no pulse in his body. But eventually rubbing and spraying a little water the pulse came back. I immediatly called the vet again he came as fast as he could. He gave him injection of small dosage of steroid and some vitamin drip to stabalize him. Then after a while he said that it might be ND disease as he is showing nervous symptoms. He also asked if my parrot was vaccinated of ND diesease but i said no. So he gave him some medicine vaccine and also disperene orally dissolved in water. For now the my bird seems stable but not active at all. But seems to sit upright and also just now 10mins ago he drank water which was mixed with ORS electrolytes for deficiency. He is still not eating yet. But drinking a little water. The vet said to keep close eye on him to check if he gets better. There is no confirmation if my parrot has the ND deisease as to confirm that a PCR test is required which is not availible in my country. So it is just a visual conclusion according to symptoms. I dont know what else to do. There are no avian specialist vets in my country. I am very desperate. I cannot bear to look at my bird have a stroke/seizure again. Please advice what could be done. The vet said to repeat the same medicine once every day in hopes that he recovers. Please advice what else should i do. 

Thank you. Regards. 

[Greytness]

Seizures are extremely difficult to watch. I'm so sorry your young baby isn't doing well.

I have a few questions for you: what is his curren t diet?

Does he chew on anything that's metal (ie: cheap bells hanging on pre-made toys) What type of metal are the bars from his cage?
Birds can stroke if they have heavy metal poisoning.

Did this vet do any swabs to rule out infection? Aspirgillus is a fungal infection that should be looked into.

The unfortunate thing is that you don't have access to a vet that specialized in birds. It may be worth looking into finding one that you could travel to outside your city. 

Stay strong, and please keep us posted.

[Taha]

52 minutes ago, Greytness said:

Seizures are extremely difficult to watch. I'm so sorry your young baby isn't doing well.

I have a few questions for you: what is his curren t diet?

Does he chew on anything that's metal (ie: cheap bells hanging on pre-made toys) What type of metal are the bars from his cage?
Birds can stroke if they have heavy metal poisoning.

Did this vet do any swabs to rule out infection? Aspirgillus is a fungal infection that should be looked into.

The unfortunate thing is that you don't have access to a vet that specialized in birds. It may be worth looking into finding one that you could travel to outside your city. 

Stay strong, and please keep us posted.

Thank you for the reply. Toys are only rope toys and wooden perch which are bird friendly. There are no other bell or metal related toys in the cage. 

As for the diet he was having pellet diet only with occasional fruit. Should i increase the times of fruit and veggie diet in a week? 

The swab test was not done by the vet. He did not have any equipment for parrots. That is the main problem that there is not even a single certified avian vet even in any other city. Since a long time i have been searching for a vet in any other city which specializes in birds or parrots but i was unable to find one. All vets are either specilized for cats and dogs or only generlized in poultry or general animal health. 

As for the current update, he has started to eat mango from my hand and also drinking ORS mixed water with vitamns on his own. Still looks a bit weak but is better than what he looked in the morning. I was stunned myself when he got the seizure. Gladly my mother was around and she didnt panick and dealt with him to stabalize him. 

[Greytness]

I can only imagine how frightening this all must be. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't find the proper vet.

Unless his cage bars are zinc coated galvanized steel, then it's doubtful his seizure was from a metal or zinc toxicity. The pellet could be suspect if it's not a well known brand such as Tops, Harrisons, Roudy Bush, etc. His diet should be high in fresh veggies, some fruit, a few nuts, some seed, millet, fresh sprouts. Avoid sunflower seeds unless used as a treat from time to time. If you are giving him peanuts in a shell, those should be avoided due to the possibility of them having aspergillus.

I wonder if there's such a thing as a phone in avian vet service available. They have them for humans, so I'm thinking  there could be someone you could consult with over the phone or via an internet chat. It's just a wild thought, but something you might want to see if anything like this exists.

Until you find out why he seized, you are only treating the symptoms; not the underlying cause.

What country are you in?

[Greytness]

Try this: https://www.justanswer.com/sip/bird-veterinary?r=ppc|ga|26|General - Rest of World - Search|Avian Vet|&JPKW=avian vet online&JPDC=S&JPST=&JPAD=367739556949&JPMT=e&JPNW=g&JPAF=txt&JPRC=1&JPCD=20190717&JPOP=TM-H2HybridsAds&cmpid=17685483&agid=2065716483&fiid=&tgtid=kwd-38125846671&ntw=Search&dvc=Desktop&r=ppc|ga|1|||&JPKW=avian vet online&JPDC=S&JPST=&JPAD=367739556949&JPMT=e&JPNW=g&JPAF=txt&JPRC=1&JPCD=&JPOP=&cmpid=17685483&agid=2065716483&fiid=&tgtid=kwd-38125846671&ntw=g&dvc=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5o7QzNyl6gIVCr3ACh1KQw-aEAAYASAAEgLaOPD_BwE 

 

[Taha]

6 hours ago, Greytness said:

I can only imagine how frightening this all must be. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't find the proper vet.

Unless his cage bars are zinc coated galvanized steel, then it's doubtful his seizure was from a metal or zinc toxicity. The pellet could be suspect if it's not a well known brand such as Tops, Harrisons, Roudy Bush, etc. His diet should be high in fresh veggies, some fruit, a few nuts, some seed, millet, fresh sprouts. Avoid sunflower seeds unless used as a treat from time to time. If you are giving him peanuts in a shell, those should be avoided due to the possibility of them having aspergillus.

I wonder if there's such a thing as a phone in avian vet service available. They have them for humans, so I'm thinking  there could be someone you could consult with over the phone or via an internet chat. It's just a wild thought, but something you might want to see if anything like this exists.

Until you find out why he seized, you are only treating the symptoms; not the underlying cause.

What country are you in?

The cage is built from a safe metal hence that might not be the reason. For the diet yes the current diet just seems to be high in fat or it could be a low quality pellet mix. Since yesterday i am trying to feed him fruits and vitamin water to cater to any deficiency if that was the cause. Really hoping that it was a deficiency and not an ND diesease as there is not treatment for it here.

Peanuts i always give him without the shell. All nuts are washed and made sure are without shells so he doesnt inhale any dust from shells. 

I was really hoping to use a means of calling or talking to a certified avian vet. Thank you for the link. I just purchased their membership. Contacted them. Now waiting for a reply. 

I am living in Pakistan. Where there only certified vets for cats and dogs sadly. 

That is what the vet that visited us yesterday said that we can only be able to treat the symptoms with hope that it is only deficiency and he recovers. 

[Greytness]

Taha,

There's another way to have him tested outside your country. This company, located in the UK, will analyze blood sampling for a wide variety of avian maladies. I know of a bird owner who used their services to adequately diagnose their bird. You have a blood sample obtained and then you send it directly to their lab.

Here is that link: https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Avian/avian-cost-pound.html 

[Taha]

1 hour ago, Greytness said:

Taha,

There's another way to have him tested outside your country. This company, located in the UK, will analyze blood sampling for a wide variety of avian maladies. I know of a bird owner who used their services to adequately diagnose their bird. You have a blood sample obtained and then you send it directly to their lab.

Here is that link: https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Avian/avian-cost-pound.html 

Okay thank you i will get onto that. Will need to arrange sending the sample as all transit parcels are on hold due to the covid situation. Very bad timing for everything. 

As of current update, the vet prescribed Vidaylin-M syrup to cater to nutritients. He seems a lot better now. Started to play with his toys and also has started to vocalize. Hope he is getting better. 

[Greytness]

That's great to hear! 

I'd definitely bump up more on  veggies, especially vitamin A rich foods. Yams are high in vitamin A. Grays need A. Leafy greens are great: kale, chard, dandelion greens. If he won't eat them plain, then finely chop them up into a yam.

 

[Timbersmom]

I really feel for you. Timber suffers from seizures, and I have to medicate him twice a day. He has seen an avian vet and was tested for everything. Sometimes, as with Timber, birds have seizures for unknown reason, like human epilepsy. It must be very frightening not to have access to an avian vet. He has not had a seizure for two years now, since we got the meds adjusted.

I'll share some of the things the vet had me do until we had his seizures under control. When Timber's started, he would have one every few weeks. I hope and pray that your bird never has another, but you might want to take some precautions in the meantime.

1. Lower his available perches. If he seizes he will fall, and that can injure him as much as the seizure.

2. Make sure there is a towel or some type of padding under him so that if he does fall it is cushioned.

3. I actually put Timber in a hospital cage (very small cage) until we had the seizures under control. His old cage was large and if he had fallen from the top of the cage (he would climb all over it even if there wasn't a perch) to the bottom, bouncing off perches and toys on the way down, he could have hurt himself. The small cage was easier to cover with toweling and kept him from falling much of a distance before hitting the towel.

 

[Taha]

2 hours ago, Greytness said:

That's great to hear! 

I'd definitely bump up more on  veggies, especially vitamin A rich foods. Yams are high in vitamin A. Grays need A. Leafy greens are great: kale, chard, dandelion greens. If he won't eat them plain, then finely chop them up into a yam.

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes ofcourse now i will give him veggies in the morning. He wont eat them plain im sure so ill trick him into eating veggies along with his favorite food. 

[Taha]

2 hours ago, Timbersmom said:

I really feel for you. Timber suffers from seizures, and I have to medicate him twice a day. He has seen an avian vet and was tested for everything. Sometimes, as with Timber, birds have seizures for unknown reason, like human epilepsy. It must be very frightening not to have access to an avian vet. He has not had a seizure for two years now, since we got the meds adjusted.

I'll share some of the things the vet had me do until we had his seizures under control. When Timber's started, he would have one every few weeks. I hope and pray that your bird never has another, but you might want to take some precautions in the meantime.

1. Lower his available perches. If he seizes he will fall, and that can injure him as much as the seizure.

2. Make sure there is a towel or some type of padding under him so that if he does fall it is cushioned.

3. I actually put Timber in a hospital cage (very small cage) until we had the seizures under control. His old cage was large and if he had fallen from the top of the cage (he would climb all over it even if there wasn't a perch) to the bottom, bouncing off perches and toys on the way down, he could have hurt himself. The small cage was easier to cover with toweling and kept him from falling much of a distance before hitting the towel.

 

Hi. Thanks for the reply. Yes that is what i was scared the most if he falls again due to a seizure. I have shifted him to a travel cage/hospital cage. But i really really hope he doesnt have a seizure again because it seemed very distresful and painful i almost thought that i had lost him because there was no pulse and then he suddently opened his eyes when my mother rubbed his belly and his back. It felt like a horror to see him like that. 

Today i gave him quite a good meal of fruits then after i while i gave him his favorite nuts (cashew and almonds). He is still not eating his pellet diet again which i am worried as he was really used to his pellet diet but since the yesterday's event he hasnt eaten pellet diet again. Today he had fruit and nuts along with his medicine in the morning (Vidaylin-M -> 1ml dosage). Also to cater his calcium deficiency i sprinkled powdered calcium in his fruit bowl to trick him into having calcium as well. Is this okay? This is what the local vet told me to do but i wanted to verify from you if this is all correct? 

He has been quite stable and active today which makes me really happy. Has been playing with his toys in the evening and also has been vocalizing. I really hope he is getting better as i cannot confirm his health with no vet availible.

[Greytness]

Without having a blood test you can't know for certain if he's calcium deficient. I'd be cautious about giving him anything supplemental without knowing for sure. He will get what he needs if you transition him over to a wide variety of veggies. Fruit is high in sugar, so it's best not to give him primarily a fruit diet.

If he's not eating veggies, and if you have access to blended vegetable juices, you could try giving him his veggies via a drink. My flock love to sip veggie juice off a spoon!

Spinach binds with calcium, so it's best to avoid spinach.

[Taha]

47 minutes ago, Greytness said:

Without having a blood test you can't know for certain if he's calcium deficient. I'd be cautious about giving him anything supplemental without knowing for sure. He will get what he needs if you transition him over to a wide variety of veggies. Fruit is high in sugar, so it's best not to give him primarily a fruit diet.

If he's not eating veggies, and if you have access to blended vegetable juices, you could try giving him his veggies via a drink. My flock love to sip veggie juice off a spoon!

Spinach binds with calcium, so it's best to avoid spinach.

Thank you for the message. Yes i have consulted with the avian vet on the link you provided me. Thanks for the link. I talked to the vet and she inquired me regarding the medicine i was giving and told me that the medicine is okay if it is healing him to recovery. Other than that she also suggested to give more veggies and pellet diet to cater all nutrients. 

I will now give him vegies tomorrow via juice blend as adviced by you. 

[Greytness]

Fantastic. You're such a loving, caring grey owner! Wish there were more people like you out there who advocate for their birds.

[Taha]

4 hours ago, Greytness said:

Fantastic. You're such a loving, caring grey owner! Wish there were more people like you out there who advocate for their birds.

Thank you. That's so nice of you. 

[Taha]

Hi. Hope you all are doing great. Just wanted to give you guys an update on my african grey. 

He is healing quite well. He is coming back to his playful self and keeps running around while vocalizing. I am now giving him fresh veggies along with smaller portion of fruits daily. He is liking the veggies alot. By the evening i keep in his bowl of pellets and seedmix but he is still not eating his seed mix diet which he was having before. As the vet i have been in contact with online said that he should have both propotions in a day with veggies and fruits for lunch while seed mix for dinner with occasional nuts. Could it be the reason that his nutrients are being fullfilled by the veggies and fruits in lunch that he is not having his seed mix diet?

Also i wanted to ask i have placed a wifi camera in front of his cage to keep an eye on his behavior and if he has a seizure again (he has not had it again and i really really hope he doesn't) which has this night vision camera with 5 red lights (Infrared lights) which are visible at night. Does any of you have an idea that are these light harmful for parrots or is it safe to use? 

Other than that my african grey is doing really great now. Just hope he starts having his pellet/seedmix diet again so all his daily nutrients are catered. 

[Greytness]

Thank you for the update! That's fantastic that he's doing so much better!

As long as he's primarily getting a wide variety of veggies, including leafy greens and yams, some fruit, some good quality pellets, and a few nuts daily or as training treats, then seeds aren't really a necessary part of the diet. Several of my flock of 13 actually don't get any seeds. This decision was based upon researching species-related diet recommendations. If the diet is widely varied and fresh, even pellets aren't truly necessary. After all, birds don't receive machine made pellets in the wild.

For other great ideas for evidence based diets, look up Dr. Jason Crean. He specializes in avian nutrition and is very well known within the avian community here in the US. I've learned quite a lot from his teachings.

Please continue to keep us posted! Oh, as for the infrared lights, I'm not an expert, but don't believe it should be a problem. Perhaps someone could confirm? 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Greytness

[Taha]

2 hours ago, Greytness said:

Thank you for the update! That's fantastic that he's doing so much better!

As long as he's primarily getting a wide variety of veggies, including leafy greens and yams, some fruit, some good quality pellets, and a few nuts daily or as training treats, then seeds aren't really a necessary part of the diet. Several of my flock of 13 actually don't get any seeds. This decision was based upon researching species-related diet recommendations. If the diet is widely varied and fresh, even pellets aren't truly necessary. After all, birds don't receive machine made pellets in the wild.

For other great ideas for evidence based diets, look up Dr. Jason Crean. He specializes in avian nutrition and is very well known within the avian community here in the US. I've learned quite a lot from his teachings.

Please continue to keep us posted! Oh, as for the infrared lights, I'm not an expert, but don't believe it should be a problem. Perhaps someone could confirm? 

Thanks a lot for the info. I will check out Dr. Jason Crean's teachings. 

Yes i am now giving him fresh vegies and fruit diet. But seeds are always present in his food bowl if he wants to have a go at it. 

Regards the IR lights, I have checked some forums which says that birds cannot see the spectrum of infrared hence the red night vision lights are invisible to them. I hope someone here can confirm me on this. 

Will keep everyone updated regarding how his health progresses. I have still not taken him off medicine as directed by the online avian vet who reduced the medicine to a suppliment syrup once a day to cater his deficiencies for a few more days. He really hates the medicine, makes me run after him for a good 30minutes just to have 1ml dose of syrup. 

[Greytness]

Put it onto a food he likes and serve it that way.

 

[Taha]

2 hours ago, Greytness said:

Put it onto a food he likes and serve it that way.

 

Yes i have been trying to do the same. Using mango as a disguise for the medicine. 

[Timbersmom]

Glad to hear he's doing well! I've never heard of the amount of discharge from cameras being harmful so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

[Taha]

50 minutes ago, Timbersmom said:

Glad to hear he's doing well! I've never heard of the amount of discharge from cameras being harmful so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

Oh okay. Then it should not be a problem. Thanks a lot.