razza45 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 i have read a few posts on here about this issue...but i was just wondering if anyone had any contrary/comforting advice/information to give about it: A friend of mine has recently adopted a baby congo,now named Dante... the congo is too young to go home tho because he is still being hand fed...he should be able to take Dante home within a few weeks. However, my friend has run across a concern while researching, before taking Dante home...it is said that when congo's reach maturity 63% of them want to "leave the nest" so to speak and change bond to another human companion...he is worried that Dante will defect from him after putting so much work into raising him. Has anyone found that their congo has changed companions during the course of maturation (excluding long term absence in the birds life)?? I guess the theory behind this is that congos mature slower than say a timneh who is ready for independence by the age of 6 months. Congos on the other hand take up to a year..therefore it is wise for a breeder to keep the congo longer so that when the congo goes home it is ready to make their flock bond instead of another parent bond which it will soon leave.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 """"""""the congo is too young to go home tho because he is still being hand fed...he should be able to take Dante home within a few weeks.""""""' Or not until the bird is fully weaned """"""it is said that when congo's reach maturity 63% of them want to "leave the nest" so to speak and change bond to another human companion...he is worried that Dante will defect from him after putting so much work into raising him."""" Not if enough effort is put into socializing the bird into the whole family from the get go. That applies to greys, amazons,cockatoos, macaws and other species. A young bird will like one member for certain things and one member for other things. It will never like 2 or more people the exact same way in a family. Don't forget that birds are looking at many things all at once ans as time goes by, some things are more appealing. Switching from one person to another is a phase. It's a phase that people misconstrue and immediately decide that the bird is permanently leaning towards one or the other and accept it. And that's when some people decide to give up or even worse, decide to add another bird hoping for better results. Anyone here who has kids can remember when their kids did that over and over and over. Young birds are like kids """""""""therefore it is wise for a breeder to keep the congo longer so that when the congo goes home it is ready to make their flock bond instead of another parent bond which it will soon leave.."""""""" Please clarify what you mean by 'flock' bond and 'parent' bond. If a young bird stays with the breeder for too long a time, it will form a bond with that person/persons and will be pissed off when the breeder finally sells/gives him away """"I guess the theory behind this is that congos mature slower than say a timneh who is ready for independence by the age of 6 months. Congos on the other hand take up to a year..""""" Independence from what? It's too bad that there aren't more subspecies of greys, like amazons. A TAG and a CAG are two completely different kinds of birds yet are constantly compared to each other. Nothing different happens with either of these birds as they're growing up other than their formation of individual CAG personalities and individual TAG personalities.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/14 00:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza45 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 parent bond meaning caregiver/parent and flock bond meaning friend i will relay the message the internet can supply harsh and misleading opinions which can scare anyone who researches enough.. plus new bird owners are more susceptible and sensitive to such information...i think this was the case mr spock, once again, thanks for your advice...i agree with you 100%...i know roxy has gone through many phases for sure...i just think it will be more comforting for him to see another argument beside my own. by the way i'm keeping my fingers crossed that roxy and dante will get along! i've heard that it is usually successful when introducing a baby to an older bird of the same species (plus they are opposite sex)...they are more accepting. we will with out a doubt introduce them slloowwwllyyy but i'm keepin my fingers crossed! who knows maybe i'll be posing some pictures of them sittin side by side (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Well, it makes me feel real good that you understand and can cope with those phases. You probably realize that there will be more and tell your friend not to confuse *phases* and *defecting* Tell him that when a person sees that temporary phase change going on for 1 week, it's gonna feel like 2 months to him. BUT just tell him not to be discouraged. Tell him to come here and speak to other people who can understand all the little quirks that a grey undergoes. The important thing for your friend is to hear things from people who love their birds but at times, still think their bird can be a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 MrSpock really knows his stuff. I have also heard the same thing, but it's not 63% of all...from what I read the MALE will want to switch people, females not nearly as much. Like MrSpock said though, proper socializing is key. I deal with bird owners all day long at my pet store job and from what I have seen that 63% is probably due to a under-par upbringing when it comes to social skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 MrSpock is right on..as ALWAYS. Yes, there is a TON of dis-information on the web that is just confusing and pure hogwash written by someone that made is bunch of assummptions based upon their one experience, not research and truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza45 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 yea i'm sure the proper social upbringing is key..and also i bet over nurturing has a lot to do with the animal wanting to gain independence. um as far as gender is concerned...do you recommend a male owner adopt a male or female? is there any difference when it comes to bonding? are females more likely to take to a male owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 How can you guys say with all certainty that this is "hogwash"...in my research, what Razza45's friend found is pretty much the information out there...but almost all of that information has some sort of footnote that Timneh's are not as common and just recently have become a more popular companion bird therefore more studies need to be done as more Timneh's come into homes on a regular basis (proving Danmcq's point, but certainly not saying that that is disinformation). Furthermore, some of that is based upon scientific studies of grey's in the wild, and how early/late they integrate into the flock away from the parents and trying to apply it to the domestically bred birds. I think its something to consider when making your choice between a congo and timneh. I agree that each bird is an individual and will have phases and preferences, but taking into the consideration the wild natural aspect of the species is important as well. Good job on researching your bird before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Razza Get either gender. It makes no difference if you intend to immediately socialize the bird into the family and other familiar things in the house. Many times, a person goes to a breeder to buy a grey and that grey hasn't been sexed and the breeder has no intentions of doing that. He leaves it up to the new owners to do that if they want to. Hypothetically, lets say that males were the most sought after bird. What wouild happen to all the females in a clutch? I never have my chicks sexed. If the person wants a sexed bird, well, there's other breeders to buy chicks from. My only concern is their health which a vet does *well check* The major difference between males and females occurs when the female is an adult and her hormonal change occurs because nature is telling her that breeding season is around the corner. Some females get agitated during that time but it soon subsides. She might be a bit nippier and a little short tempered but that too passes. Males don't go through that extreme obvious change but they can do all of above or not do it at all. Depends upon the bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza45 Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 great, well my mind has been put to rest lol thank youu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Parrot's in the home is still relatively new and because it is not as common as lets say dog ownership there is not nearly as much studies and scientific fact out there for the new and skeptical parrot owner. Almost everything I have read on "behavior" of birds is somewhat vague and the info out there that put numbers on things are not national studies...it's probably numbers based on less than 100 birds. When you do a google search most of the websites that come up have articles written by people that are/were breeders or long time owners and only go by their experiences and the experiences of people they have talked to. It's not like when you google a breed of dog and get numerous Nationally Accredited websites with top-notch references. I think that with what information that is out there on greys you do get a good base for what to expect of your bird, but I wouldn't say that stuff is set in stone. I have had my CAG sense he was 6 weeks old and have socialized him with many, many people. He will step on a strangers hand without hesitation, but for some reason hates my father who he sees every day and never had negative interactions with. Every grey is going to be different and nothing you read will prepare you for the amazing creature they are...quirks and all. Now, as for the trend going on recently that everyone wants to know scientific proof on everything, no one here is a Harvard professor, so if you want hard facts with numbers to back the info don't ask anyone here...it's getting really obnoxious giving advise and having someone expect research to back it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loviechick Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I agre with what Mr. Spock said but from what I've read and from personal experiences I have seen this happen, and I've heard that this behavior is most prominent with CAGs. LOTS of socialization is key, otherwise they will bond to one, then find another later. I've never experienced this because I live alone, and all mine are older and past that stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 MrSpock Wrote: ""Some females get agitated during that time but it soon subsides. She might be a bit nippier and a little short tempered but that too passes."" Imagine that, don't they all... As always, your advice and comments are RIGHT ON!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Christine, You are right in the information being abundant out. The wild behaviour is different than that of a Grey bred and raised in captivity. From all the experiences I have read from Grey owners, they don't ALWAYS switch their love to another when they mature. In fact, in most well socialized Greys or single owner Greys, they go on through out their lives happy and content with one another. Their just is not enough data out there to place much confidence in what all the websites seemingly "parrot" or plagiarize from one another, thus just magnifying the amount of dis-information. That's what makes a Forum with experienced Grey owners such a valuable life line for facts and experience from multiple sources, rather than one. So far, Dayo (CAG) has proven many of the myths I was so worried about, wrong. It does not mean their are not Greys that display the attributes written about by some, but it does prove they are not an absolute nor a "Norm". Now, thats just my opinion, but I still call some of the common statements out there "Hogwash" Like my signature states, consume my opinions like a Watermelon.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumfatnhappy Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 wow, haven't been here in a while. I'm not sure I have an opinion (yet) but sure could have used you guys (and gals) a few weeks ago. We presently have one CAG just over a year old and had the opportunity to acquire another (wtf?) The latter one, Lucy is famle and ~4 yrs old. My wife wanted to put them in the same cage which I had to argue about (and won). Well it was interesting watching "goofball" get used to it's new sibling. Not knowing the sex of GB and wondering about the bonding between sexes we had him DNA'd and sure enough is also a female. It's been 3 weeks now and so far so good I think. they play/eat together and their cages are about a foot apart. I'd like to ask the resident experts the good and bad news about these terms. the youngster not going to talk as much? GB has bonded with my wife and Lucy with me which works out I suppose.... Any comments/experience/advice would be very much appreciated as we're only a year into the bird thing....and yeah, they DO appear to be spoiled..:evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza45 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 in reference to BMustee's post "I have also heard the same thing, but it's not 63% of all...from what I read the MALE will want to switch people, females not nearly as much." good call. it is said that around "63% of males and 13% females change companions after maturity"<br><br>Post edited by: razza45, at: 2007/11/15 20:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 """""""the youngster not going to talk as much? GB has bonded with my wife and Lucy with me which works out I suppose.... Any comments/experience/advice would be very much appreciated as we're only a year into the bird""""""" Talking has to do with the individual personality of each bird. When the younger #1-- 1 yr old is ready to talk it will cause 1--he's been with a familiar family and a familiar surrounding. That creates comfort on the bird's part and the bird is more prone to doing whatever comes naturally but as far as talking, your bird will talk if it's a grey that wants to talk or it might just master sounds or both etc etc. It has nothing to do with the other bird. As far as the other bird, at that age the bird might have arrived at your house with *baggage,a past history and a past set of habits*. It's hard to judge what a pre owned bird will do until it happens or doesn't happen. Only time will tell. Put no time limits on anything that you feel should happen with that bird. They do whatever they want whenever they want after getting used to a new change. A small tip--Your first bird is the #1 bird. The new second bird has no idea about being the #1 bird in your house so do everything you normally do but do it with the #1 bird first. Feed, water, treats, cage cleaning etc. This makes the #1 bird feel secure in that it hasn't lost it's rank in the house. A secure bird is a bird that will eventually let out all it's talents when they feel the time is right. Bonding--don't worry, that time will come when either bird goes to either person. If I like you and you offer me a cookie and if I don't like the other person but he/she offers me a huge slice of cinnamon apple pie, where do you think I'll be heading to?<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/15 21:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumfatnhappy Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 thanks for you input MrSpock....another quick one on topic....at what age is a grey 'full grown' (not to be confused with 'mature')? I've heard 3 yrs or so..... that right? Even at 15 months goofball weighs alot less than Lucy (4 yrs) and a bit smaller as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 15 to 18 mts--full adult size By 3 yrs old--full adult weight--not noticable About your small one---you might have a small boned grey. They come in different sizes.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/16 21:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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