Someone Help With Isaac

[Elvenking]

I know I have tried to adjust to this plucking thing that Isaac has a habit of doing. However, I am not sure how much longer I can accept it. I mean, it appears to me as if I am not doing enough for him. Over the last few days, he really took off and started getting some feathers in bunches. Just when I am willing to let it go and be happy anyway. Awesome yeah? I came home tonight to a larger feather pulled out on the floor of his cage. One he had to absolutely gouge out to get off. What a peach. No matter how good I am to him, he is just going to show me that he wants to self-destroy. This is the thanks I get for all my hours of attention and the way I take my life COMPLETELY OFFLINE for this bird. Man, I have been more than caring and persistent...and loving....but right now...I am saying I need something. Jesus friggin Christ...he sits there and preens continuously. He's okay...he's not okay. His feathers are coming back...nope...today we are ripping that all out. Look...aren't you proud....not exactly little boy. This is a huge back and forth thing with me and each time it happens to a large degree like this, I question everything. I don't even know just how f'd up he is willing to make himself look. Holy mother of all that is good in this world....tell me....HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DEAL WITH THIS???? I have a bird who makes me look like a bird abuser.....all for being everything that I can possibly be for him.

 

I am now...desperate. Someone please tell me how to deal with this. I have seen birds that chew their tummy. I could live with that. I have not seen birds that do what Isaac does unless they have been neglected. Isaac gets un-freaking-believable amounts of love...what gives???? Make it make sense to me. Give me the story I give everyone else when they look at me like I am horrible owner after all the stuff I do. I really need help moving forward on this. Just when I think I know I can be okay with it...he goes and rips a couple of fatter feathers out.

 

If you have a bird that plucks all over...show me a picture...cause I haven't seen them like Isaac. This stuff is ROUGH on my heart. I love him way too much for this to be the result. It doesn't seem normal at all to me. I need help figuring this out. I don't know what to do.

[Luvparrots]

Everyone knows how much you love Issac. All you have to do is read your thread and it is obvious. Issac loves you. That's is also obvious. If I am not mistaken this all started when you became ill and were not at home for a spell. Issac was afraid for you at that time and it has I believe affected him. I am assuming you talk to Issac all the time so I am assuming he knows how you feel about this new event. Well Issac feels your distress. So relax and breathe. Forget about the plucking and go about the day as if all is fine. I am assuming that an avian vet has told you Issac is fine so just relax so that Issac can relax. My greys sense my feelings so I know Issac senses yours. Go back to when all was calm with you with Issac's looks so he can calm down too.

 

You are getting discouraged; it is so obvious in your thread. Issac senses this. Love Issac for who he is.

[Elvenking]

Everyone knows how much you love Issac. All you have to do is read your thread and it is obvious. Issac loves you. That's is also obvious. If I am not mistaken this all started when you became ill and were not at home for a spell. Issac was afraid for you at that time and it has I believe affected him. I am assuming you talk to Issac all the time so I am assuming he knows how you feel about this new event. Well Issac feels your distress. So relax and breathe. Forget about the plucking and go about the day as if all is fine. I am assuming that an avian vet has told you Issac is fine so just relax so that Issac can relax. My greys sense my feelings so I know Issac senses yours. Go back to when all was calm with you with Issac's looks so he can calm down too.

 

You are getting discouraged; it is so obvious in your thread. Issac senses this. Love Issac for who he is.

 

I am certainly discouraged. It is very hard to love him so much, and also let him destroy himself. This is a very difficult cycle to understand and accept. I don't always have the incredible strength it takes to see what he has done to himself and just move on like nothing is wrong. SOMETHING appears to be so terribly wrong! Must be....look at him!! It seems less of a stretch to say that something is terribly wrong, that it is to say everything is fine. He doesn't look like everything is fine. He looks like he hates life until you see him get playful. I just have not found it in me to let it go yet. I have done the thing where I just ignore it...he always manages to do something a bit more impressive and makes it a little harder to move forward. He was fine for so long..and then he did a little more and I was like...alright no big. Then he just leveled some feathers Saturday and it was like....well what the hell happened there. However, still again...oh well. Then I saw a bigger one chewed off in the middle. Okay...I got concerned. Again, I don't see any pictures of other birds who are taking feathers out all over the body and wings. I have only seen tummies. I suppose that it is difficult to accept as a natural course of his life just yet. I know that I have to. How do I not blame myself? How do I ever feel good about myself regarding this? It bothers me the most because I do firmly believe that I am responsible for all of it. While I know that resentment toward him when he does it is totally wrong, I do feel totally responsible and try to see what it is that I did to cause this.

 

I know I should be ignoring it and moving along and I have been doing that for a long time now. It doesn't change anything. Yes he senses my emotions...well then he knows I love him a ton. Too bad, I am human and I am still getting used to watching an animal destroy itself in front of me. Sorry if I haven't come up to speed with my Vulcan powers of not showing any emotion over it. I still have feelings for his well-being and am just a bit more connected than someone who can ignore this.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Elvenking

[Elvenking]

Give me something to think so that my heart doesn't break into a million pieces when I see my beautiful baby love do this......

[murfchck]

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Sometimes there is no answer as to why. They are who they are, feathers or not, they are happy and in the long run that is the most important reminder you can give to yourself. Hugs to you both!

[Greywings]

http://s201.photobucket.com/user/Firefly_mom/library/

http://s201.photobucket.com/user/Firefly_mom/media/DSC07977.jpg.html

Edited May 19, 2015 by Greywings

[Greywings]

None of us think you are doing a poor job, I know you are stressed and so is he. Try to just breathe and relax, your state of mind is an open book to him. Being prey rather than predator makes a Grey very open to those around him, he has to watch those members of his flock to be aware of dangerous situations and will interpret your stress as an indicator of danger. Lots of mistings, lots of love and a huge dollop of patience is the best medicine right now. You need to heal as much as he does I can feel your pain in your words.

If you look through the picture album in the post above this you will see quite a few plucked birds, most seem pretty happy anyway we just have to make sure they are warm enough in the Winter. They belong to the bald is beautiful club. We just have to love them and care for them no matter what. Some of these birds are mine and most are living in the Sanctuary having arrived that way.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Greywings

[katana600]

It is only natural to get discouraged when you are trying so hard to make it better. I have had times when I looked at GilGirl and thought "What now? What more can I do?" and as it turned out, nothing. Nothing we do creates change to magically to turn a switch in their little brain. What others think of you when they see Isaac is not that you are a bad companion, but that you can't live for him and change his needs. This could be a time phase in his life where he is frustrated and it isn't a lot different than a child chewing fingernails out of anxiety. You are not creating his anxiety, he can't help himself and isn't doing this to make you look bad. Plucking is on the list for reasons people give up on their parrots, I don't think you are there yet because every change and new home decreases the chance of a successful outcome. Stephen, I know these are just words, but you have gotten to know us over time and I believe you when you say he seems happy and well adjusted in every other respect. It could be more of the expectation that you have given up and sacrificed to help him and you don't see results based on the time and emotional investment. For some reason, probably because GilGirl came into my life already in rough shape that I didn't take it personally. Believe me, it was anguishing, but I kept telling myself it takes time and she will overcome it, and so very slowly she is. Maybe you could keep a journal. That way, you have a written record. While you are consumed with it, it seems a lot bigger and overpoweringly painful. If you could see on a calendar that his bouts are less frequent to give you something to hold on to, that could help. I am so sorry for both of you because you are so good together. Isaac is the same age as Juno would have been and we might be in the same circumstances as you had he survived. All I know is you have my unconditional support. You need a bird sitter for the weekend to go have time for yourself, or for a vacation.

[Echo's Mom]

I'm so sorry for your feelings ... I've never been in that situation, but I can still sympathize with you ...

 

I think you have been given the best advice ... literally - do nothing - forget about it ...

 

That seems to be the advice there is for ANYTHING out there!

 

If you really want true love, quit looking for it and it will find you!

If you really want happiness, quit looking for it, and you'll suddenly realize it's already there!

 

I think the more you stress about it the worse you are making it for both of you!

 

One of my other parrots I use to have - a little quaker named Ellie, came to be with a broken leg and a broken wing - they had healed but very badly. I did at first feel sorry for her, you'd have to have a heart of stone not too!

 

BUT ... I spent a couple of weeks watching how she got around and then got creative and made her cage and area just for her ... her cage was longer rather than higher ... there were longer shelves and not as many perches. She actually had a nest in to sleep in (she never laid any eggs thankfully!) so that she could give her one "good" leg a rest.

 

After that, I just let her be ... made minor changes every now and then to something ... and she had a blast re arranging her home to suit herself ...

 

She was a great little bird and quite the trooper for her "handicaps!"

[Dave007]

I know I have tried to adjust to this plucking thing that Isaac has a habit of doing. However, I am not sure how much longer I can accept it. I mean, it appears to me as if I am not doing enough for him. Over the last few days, he really took off and started getting some feathers in bunches. Just when I am willing to let it go and be happy anyway. Awesome yeah? I came home tonight to a larger feather pulled out on the floor of his cage. One he had to absolutely gouge out to get off. What a peach. No matter how good I am to him, he is just going to show me that he wants to self-destroy. This is the thanks I get for all my hours of attention and the way I take my life COMPLETELY OFFLINE for this bird. Man, I have been more than caring and persistent...and loving....but right now...I am saying I need something. Jesus friggin Christ...he sits there and preens continuously. He's okay...he's not okay. His feathers are coming back...nope...today we are ripping that all out. Look...aren't you proud....not exactly little boy. This is a huge back and forth thing with me and each time it happens to a large degree like this, I question everything. I don't even know just how f'd up he is willing to make himself look. Holy mother of all that is good in this world....tell me....HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DEAL WITH THIS???? I have a bird who makes me look like a bird abuser.....all for being everything that I can possibly be for him.

 

I am now...desperate. Someone please tell me how to deal with this. I have seen birds that chew their tummy. I could live with that. I have not seen birds that do what Isaac does unless they have been neglected. Isaac gets un-freaking-believable amounts of love...what gives???? Make it make sense to me. Give me the story I give everyone else when they look at me like I am horrible owner after all the stuff I do. I really need help moving forward on this. Just when I think I know I can be okay with it...he goes and rips a couple of fatter feathers out.

 

If you have a bird that plucks all over...show me a picture...cause I haven't seen them like Isaac. This stuff is ROUGH on my heart. I love him way too much for this to be the result. It doesn't seem normal at all to me. I need help figuring this out. I don't know what to do.

 

Elven

 

I feel your pain, your frustration, your anger. I can see that you feel that the bird shouldn't be doing this because of your love from day 1. I can see that you're ready to get very angry and you're ready to wring his neck. I can see that you're starting to feel that your love meant nothing to this bird. I can see that you think the bird is being spiteful. You're at your wit's end. I can see that you would never get another bird, especially a grey again. All of this is natural. Many people will say that a grey is the last type of bird to get if complete knowledge of parrots isn't studied. I totally agree with that and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other people on all sorts of boards are having the same specific problems like you. Look through past posts here through the years and you'll see the same posts like yours. A bigger sinner is a cockatoo. In bird shelters, the biggest amount of birds there are greys and TOOs. They're complex birds. They're intelligent birds but most of all, they have one major basic habit-----mutilate themselves first instead of going after people. I'm not gonna guess what's wrong with your bird. I'm not gonna say it needs more love. I'm not gonna say that you did things wrong. I don't live with you. I don't know your personality. I don't know whether you excessively spoiled this bird but from your past posts, I can guess that you did. I may be wrong.

Right now, you need to think about preventive items to deal with your bird's condition because in a sense it is abnorolal.

I don't know what country you live in but the product below seems to greatly help birds with that problem. I've recommended it before and it's worked. It takes a while for it to work. Constant usage is required. Relapses may occur.

This is an old page from Avitec . More than likely, their web page has been redesigned.

 

 

 

 

Type in

 

AVITEC.COM

 

On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING Products. Ignore the SCREAMING part of the label. Nothing can make a bird stop screaming---click on it

 

Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it

 

there's 3 choices

1---premixed bottle

2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz)

3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz)

-------

Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle

 

1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. It also comes with it's own measuring spoon.Heavily soak your bird down once a day. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around. Discard what remains at the end of the day.

The product sinks into the skin, subdues the itchiness, softens the top layer of skin. It's useless on outer feathers. It leaves a slight coating on the skin so the bird doesn't fin f\d it tasty. It's none toxic.The feathers aren't the problem. The skin is the important thing. When a bird plucks, it leaves the bare skin very irritated and dry and itchy. The bird has no choice but go after those areas for relief. That relief feels good. SO---PLUCKING, CHEW{NG, BARBERING,FOLLICLE DESTRUCTION begins.

 

I would go out of my way to get the product or at least get a product that's similar. These products that are sold in pet stores are simply bullshit.

 

Like I said, I don't know your country. I'm not experienced in repeating posts about giving more love, moving cages, etc, etc. I've done that stuff and it made no difference. My biggest suggestion concerning a cage was for people to bring their grey home and make sure that the bird is in the middle of the traffic so it can see what's going on daily.

 

One other thing you should buy is an item that greys use in the wild. They get their most important essentional vitamins from it. This product should be given in small amounts on seed, bread, trreats.

This item is called RED PALM OIL. All countries sell it.

[BaileysPapa]

Of the dozens of birds that have passed through my rescue, several were pluckers & mutilators. A few of them overcame it and were "cured". A few of those stayed "cured". I have read that the pain of plucking causes the brain to release endorphins, which cause a somewhat (twisted) pleasurable feeling. That reinforces the plucking to continue the endorphin release. A masochistic response. This situation is sort of like a self abusive child syndrome. The answer is not with you, but, within Isaac's head. Like with a human, you can only create a healing environment of calmness and peace. He has to stop this on his own. Bathing, spraying, etc. all help. Limited sunshine, palm oil, and toys to shred, also help. But, it is a learned experience, and not easily replaced. Also, it is a way that they realize they get attention. Another reinforcement. This is a very complex scenario. Try to understand that you cannot "fix" this easily, maybe not at all. And you stressing about it is not helping you or him. Yes, I know what it is to watch them pluck themselves. I've cried over a few birds that did worse than that. But you must be strong. As flock leader, you are his strength, his guide, his guardian. And we are here for you.

[Elvenking]

Elven

 

I feel your pain, your frustration, your anger. I can see that you feel that the bird shouldn't be doing this because of your love from day 1. I can see that you're ready to get very angry and you're ready to wring his neck. I can see that you're starting to feel that your love meant nothing to this bird. I can see that you think the bird is being spiteful. You're at your wit's end. I can see that you would never get another bird, especially a grey again. All of this is natural. Many people will say that a grey is the last type of bird to get if complete knowledge of parrots isn't studied. I totally agree with that and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other people on all sorts of boards are having the same specific problems like you. Look through past posts here through the years and you'll see the same posts like yours. A bigger sinner is a cockatoo. In bird shelters, the biggest amount of birds there are greys and TOOs. They're complex birds. They're intelligent birds but most of all, they have one major basic habit-----mutilate themselves first instead of going after people. I'm not gonna guess what's wrong with your bird. I'm not gonna say it needs more love. I'm not gonna say that you did things wrong. I don't live with you. I don't know your personality. I don't know whether you excessively spoiled this bird but from your past posts, I can guess that you did. I may be wrong.

Right now, you need to think about preventive items to deal with your bird's condition because in a sense it is abnorolal.

I don't know what country you live in but the product below seems to greatly help birds with that problem. I've recommended it before and it's worked. It takes a while for it to work. Constant usage is required. Relapses may occur.

This is an old page from Avitec . More than likely, their web page has been redesigned.

 

 

 

 

Type in

 

AVITEC.COM

 

On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING Products. Ignore the SCREAMING part of the label. Nothing can make a bird stop screaming---click on it

 

Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it

 

there's 3 choices

1---premixed bottle

2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz)

3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz)

-------

Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle

 

1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. It also comes with it's own measuring spoon.Heavily soak your bird down once a day. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around. Discard what remains at the end of the day.

The product sinks into the skin, subdues the itchiness, softens the top layer of skin. It's useless on outer feathers. It leaves a slight coating on the skin so the bird doesn't fin f\d it tasty. It's none toxic.The feathers aren't the problem. The skin is the important thing. When a bird plucks, it leaves the bare skin very irritated and dry and itchy. The bird has no choice but go after those areas for relief. That relief feels good. SO---PLUCKING, CHEW{NG, BARBERING,FOLLICLE DESTRUCTION begins.

 

I would go out of my way to get the product or at least get a product that's similar. These products that are sold in pet stores are simply bullshit.

 

Like I said, I don't know your country. I'm not experienced in repeating posts about giving more love, moving cages, etc, etc. I've done that stuff and it made no difference. My biggest suggestion concerning a cage was for people to bring their grey home and make sure that the bird is in the middle of the traffic so it can see what's going on daily.

 

One other thing you should buy is an item that greys use in the wild. They get their most important essential vitamins from it. This product should be given in small amounts on seed, bread, trreats.

This item is called RED PALM OIL. All countries sell it.

 

Thanks for this post and all the others helping me get through this. I am much more calm about it today again. I really felt awful when I saw that he gnawed off more yesterday. Most days I can let this go, but yesterday it was very hard. He really is the center of my life in many respects. Most of the joy I get from coming home is all about him. He is my 'significant other' if you will. I do not live with anyone else and my daughter comes over on the weekends. In all other respects, I am really proud of the bird Isaac is. Hell...I have been addicted to things...so I know what it is like to be habitual. I know...I can't fault him at all.

 

Dave...yer right about all the feelings that come up...and yes...he IS spoiled. I think I go to the crazy degree to make sure he is happy. My next move is to make the area around his cage even more expansive and give more options for play time. Anyway...yes...those feelings are there. I am a practicing Buddhist...so I can always also see clearly that my feelings are unwarranted...but I still have them and they can be difficult to negotiate....especially with how much I attribute to myself being the problem. So it's a little personal hell I try to keep at bay. Sometimes I inevitably get hope when they start coming back in which sets me up for hurt. Working on it.

 

I have been misting him regularly, but I can add the formula you speak of as well. We'll give it a shot.

 

Don't worry, I am calm and fine with it all most of the time and I'll get through the tough times. It really helped to see other birds that have this issue. It is really hard to see a feathered Grey and remember how Isaac used to look like that.

 

Thanks for all the posts, I am feeling better today. Isaac is still his happy self....I don't even think that he thinks there is a problem. The whole thing appears to be a problem confined to my own mind for me to overcome, and find a way I shall.

 

Oh yeah...RED PALM OIL.....I always give him a little bit of this on some boiled veggie noodles. He loves em. I'll sometimes mix em up with some eggs and rice...he digs.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Elvenking

[murfchck]

I am with you with the feelings, as you remember Bongo started plucking and I figured out it was sisal rope he wanted. Now my Gabby has started to pluck, she is 27 now and has never plucked before or I should say since we have had her. I thought this might help you. I got home tonight and she had started pulling out on her neck, I was just talking to her while she was on the kitchen counter, turned for a split second and when I looked back there was a full feather on the counter from her wing. I picked it up and was telling her if she didn't stop, she would soon run out of feathers and not be able to fly around and chase all the others away from the areas she has claimed as her own. (which is the entire kitchen now and the chairs by the table) I picked up the feather and stuck it back in her wing and just giggled thinking I would tell you that if all else fails, stick them back on him yourself, works for a little bit until they move or fly off!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ehUWu-EoVfE/VVvIP5vZXQI/AAAAAAAACTA/oO33x6R8w0I/w326-h579-no/20150519_183303.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mwNP4DBKzs8/VVvINYJChrI/AAAAAAAACS0/hPZhIvtthyg/w326-h579-no/20150519_183256.jpg

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Elvenking... It breaks my heart that you are struggling with Isaac plucking! I would too if Sophie did this. She is looking a little ragged lately, as her last bird friend has left our world. I can imagine the struggle you go thru to be told " be calm, except this, work on alternate therapy." Meanwhile... hear " this is NOT your fault!" ( which it isn't.)

You love your baby. Take a deep breath and reach out to resourses available to you to help you solve this problem. ( avian and behavioral experts). It ISN'T you... but your birds problem which makes it your problem. I can totally relate, and would respond the same way as you Nancy

[Elvenking]

Elvenking... It breaks my heart that you are struggling with Isaac plucking! I would too if Sophie did this. She is looking a little ragged lately, as her last bird friend has left our world. I can imagine the struggle you go thru to be told " be calm, except this, work on alternate therapy." Meanwhile... hear " this is NOT your fault!" ( which it isn't.)

You love your baby. Take a deep breath and reach out to resourses available to you to help you solve this problem. ( avian and behavioral experts). It ISN'T you... but your birds problem which makes it your problem. I can totally relate, and would respond the same way as you Nancy

 

Thanks for sharing your understanding of my situation and expressing your feelings. I love Isaac soooo much. It never stops amazing me that I have this little character around the house. It always dawns upon me how amazing the whole experience is. He is so expressive of his attachment to me as well. He comes to my shoulder when I call him...(if I have to...he's always close by). I love the way he rubs his head against my face and my shoulder. I feel the warmest love in the world when he does something that he knows brings joy to my heart. Coming from a bird....I really just can't explain the joy. All I ever want to know is that he is happy. If he picks his feathers and it's just a habit...oh well. I guess that is that. I just don't want him to suffer from anything at all. I am at work right now, but just thinking of him makes me want to go and smooch his back. So I guess I have just adjusted and will keep him healthy in every way I can.

 

Thanks everyone for all the support!

[danmcq]

GreYt post Dave and others! They are such complex and intelligent birds, who can know what is going on in their mind? We guess, try various things, watch for even the slightest change in behavior, the back to the drawing board....

 

Since we moved two years ago, Dayo has started over preening since about 6 months after we moved here. He looks tattered in spots, but not plucked. It has driven to concern of course and I try many different things as other have mentioned. The bottom line is I know the surroundings, various noises etc. that may be contributing. My wife and I have not changed the way we interact with him at all and we have a great time together. Maybe this will pass, maybe it won't, but I do know it's not us. The same holds true for you Stephen, it is the Grey genius probably trying to solve a mathmetical probability of folds in time and it's got him frustrated until he solves it. Just love him and yourself, chill and enjoy. I know you are doing all you can to help him.

[Elvenking]

GreYt post Dave and others! They are such complex and intelligent birds, who can know what is going on in their mind? We guess, try various things, watch for even the slightest change in behavior, the back to the drawing board....

 

Since we moved two years ago, Dayo has started over preening since about 6 months after we moved here. He looks tattered in spots, but not plucked. It has driven to concern of course and I try many different things as other have mentioned. The bottom line is I know the surroundings, various noises etc. that may be contributing. My wife and I have not changed the way we interact with him at all and we have a great time together. Maybe this will pass, maybe it won't, but I do know it's not us. The same holds true for you Stephen, it is the Grey genius probably trying to solve a mathmetical probability of folds in time and it's got him frustrated until he solves it. Just love him and yourself, chill and enjoy. I know you are doing all you can to help him.

 

Really nice to hear from you again! I was wondering how Dayo was doing. Yeah....I think the game with me is over. I just really had to understand that I was thinking about it in the wrong way. I had come to this point many times before....and if he starts a bad picking spell...I do get a bit taken aback. He mainly sticks to the tummy feathers...but branches out every once in a while. I don't believe that he is suffering from anything. He expresses so much love and joy when he is around. Always filling the air with pleasant noises a la everything he has learned around the house. It is something to get used to though. Very very hard for me. I think if I remember that he is really okay, I'll be okay. Even if I do have everything to do with it, I cannot with all the power of the world and the internet, figure out what it is I could ever do to help him stop. I think that if I ever move from this place, there is a good chance he would stop at our next home. Habits tend to change when the environment does.

 

Anyway, I am going to go love the little bugger up now....making us chicken for dinner.

[Muse]

Of the dozens of birds that have passed through my rescue, several were pluckers & mutilators. A few of them overcame it and were "cured". A few of those stayed "cured". I have read that the pain of plucking causes the brain to release endorphins, which cause a somewhat (twisted) pleasurable feeling. That reinforces the plucking to continue the endorphin release. A masochistic response. This situation is sort of like a self abusive child syndrome. The answer is not with you, but, within Isaac's head. Like with a human, you can only create a healing environment of calmness and peace. He has to stop this on his own. Bathing, spraying, etc. all help. Limited sunshine, palm oil, and toys to shred, also help. But, it is a learned experience, and not easily replaced. Also, it is a way that they realize they get attention. Another reinforcement. This is a very complex scenario. Try to understand that you cannot "fix" this easily, maybe not at all. And you stressing about it is not helping you or him. Yes, I know what it is to watch them pluck themselves. I've cried over a few birds that did worse than that. But you must be strong. As flock leader, you are his strength, his guide, his guardian. And we are here for you.

 

As a former psychiatric nurse, I have to say I agree. I think this starts for whatever the reason may be, but may continue for the reason you stated. It's the same reason people "cut" themselves. Physical pain releases endorphins, emotional pain does not. Therefore, to sooth the emotional pain, a "cutter" will created physical damage that produces pain, and the endorphins sooth both. I really believe there may be some connections to bird psychological behaviors.

 

The more I see of "aviculture" the more I am beginning to believe we are creating a whole set of mental health issues in birds in the most well-meaning way. I think that hand-feeding causes a disconnect between baby and parent birds, and causes un-natural attachment to humans, who can never be what another bird can be for them. We have a badly plucked Goffin here, who has not plucked one feather since being here. But we let him out of his cage each day, with a female sulfur-crested whom he is in love with. Was his plucking out of frustration for his unrequited love? Or was it something else but the blossoming love was able to cure it?

 

Megan has done much better now that she gets a "Calming Skin and Feather" tea every day. She still has her episodes - like throwing a tantrum when she doesn't get enough attention. But for the most part she's leaving the feathers grow. I don't think there is ever going to be an easy answer to this. Humans have been trying to diagnose, treat and cure mental illness in humans - with whom we can usually communicate very fluently - and have been largely unsuccessful at even comprehending most mental illnesses. How then can we think it would be easy to help these creatures that we only barely understand.

[danmcq]

Really nice to hear from you again! I was wondering how Dayo was doing. Yeah....I think the game with me is over. I just really had to understand that I was thinking about it in the wrong way. I had come to this point many times before....and if he starts a bad picking spell...I do get a bit taken aback. He mainly sticks to the tummy feathers...but branches out every once in a while. I don't believe that he is suffering from anything. He expresses so much love and joy when he is around. Always filling the air with pleasant noises a la everything he has learned around the house. It is something to get used to though. Very very hard for me. I think if I remember that he is really okay, I'll be okay. Even if I do have everything to do with it, I cannot with all the power of the world and the internet, figure out what it is I could ever do to help him stop. I think that if I ever move from this place, there is a good chance he would stop at our next home. Habits tend to change when the environment does.

 

Anyway, I am going to go love the little bugger up now....making us chicken for dinner.

 

Yes, I have been busy with health issues my wife has been going through the last 9 months. Now 3 surgeries later, healing and all the physical therapy over life is getting back to normal. It could have played a roll in Dayos over preening as well with his love muffin not around for days and a few weeks at a time. he is still the same character as well and keeps us and himself entertained. I can still picture all the Videos I have watched of Isaac and it brings a smile just thinking about him and his large personality. Speaking of which, got any more?

[Elvenking]

As a former psychiatric nurse, I have to say I agree. I think this starts for whatever the reason may be, but may continue for the reason you stated. It's the same reason people "cut" themselves. Physical pain releases endorphins, emotional pain does not. Therefore, to sooth the emotional pain, a "cutter" will created physical damage that produces pain, and the endorphins sooth both. I really believe there may be some connections to bird psychological behaviors.

 

The more I see of "aviculture" the more I am beginning to believe we are creating a whole set of mental health issues in birds in the most well-meaning way. I think that hand-feeding causes a disconnect between baby and parent birds, and causes un-natural attachment to humans, who can never be what another bird can be for them. We have a badly plucked Goffin here, who has not plucked one feather since being here. But we let him out of his cage each day, with a female sulfur-crested whom he is in love with. Was his plucking out of frustration for his unrequited love? Or was it something else but the blossoming love was able to cure it?

 

Megan has done much better now that she gets a "Calming Skin and Feather" tea every day. She still has her episodes - like throwing a tantrum when she doesn't get enough attention. But for the most part she's leaving the feathers grow. I don't think there is ever going to be an easy answer to this. Humans have been trying to diagnose, treat and cure mental illness in humans - with whom we can usually communicate very fluently - and have been largely unsuccessful at even comprehending most mental illnesses. How then can we think it would be easy to help these creatures that we only barely understand.

 

I was thinking about this very thing last night. Overall, we create a very unnatural bonding situation between us...a human...and a parrot which is very intelligent and very much a flock member. I imagine it plays interesting games with the natural instincts to bond. I was wondering if Isaac thinks he is going to evolve into a human..and maybe he thinks....well first of all..this guy doesn't have feathers...but I love him so much. Maybe it is very frustrating for him to feel so attached to me but to have no understanding of how this relationship works given his natural feelings. In short, we create an unnatural situation which yields unnatural results. Explains the variety of result. I am VERY bonded with Isaac and I can feel his dependency upon me as a companion. I love him for it. However, I think that he has instincts that likely do not play well in a life where all his needs are met without any effort ton his part. I feel like I bond with him really well, but at the same time with having to work and all, I also draw lines in our 'together time' because it just isn't practical to be with Isaac 100% of the time. In flocks...they are always together. Lots of stuff possible in their heads for sure.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Elvenking

[ocguy106]

if he is concentrating all of the preening to just he chest area I have seen people make little vests for their birds with great success. you can buy fresh socks and cut a whole for the head and a slit down the back so you can place it over his chest and around his wings. you would make like a little sweater for him. while it is on he would be unable to pluck and once all his feather grow back in he may leave them alone. I think sometime left untreated it is like a scab that they just pick at over and over but once healed my leave the area alone. You have nothing to lose by trying it.

[Muse]

I worked today but daddy was home, so no plucking in the daytime. She got to spend time with daddy, and I gave her love and attention when I got home, before going to work in the garden. Finally at nightfall, I was beyond tired, and starved. We decided to go grab a bite to eat as opposed to dirtying (more) dishes and when we got back, there were three feathers. Ugh. Last night we put the harness on her and took her out with us. She got the last laugh. While we were eating, she cut the threads that held the strap of the harness around the little buckle, so that when I took it off her, it came apart. She's SO smart. I think her next harness will be chainmail, lol.

 

We do have some of those sock buddies if you want to try one on Isaac. Megan won't wear them. She throws a huge tantrum and stops eating. I tried waiting it out and she dropped 8 grams and I caved in and took it off. And she isn't really plucking. She snips. Right now she's moulting as well, so I have to look at all the feathers to see if they are a 'snip' or one that fell out. I understand your frustration.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I'm a firm believer, greys do better with a flock. Not necessary a rival, such as another grey. Sophie was the leader of an Amazon, and sun conure. She also directed our dogs.. but we lost Zoey my pup. Now there is only Ollie whom is getting old...I'm not sure what to do when Ollie is gone. Sophie will not handle well being without a friend, and I'm not willing to get another dog or bird.

Sean my son, had a serious conversation with me yesterday. He told me he was " shocked", that I haven't gotten another dog.He wants me to, and is willing to help train. I just CAN'T!!!! He understands that I haven't recovered from the loss of Zoey, but he doesn't understand why I don't provide Sophie with a new friend. Nancy

[SRSeedBurners]

I'm a firm believer, greys do better with a flock.

 

Ditto. And having lots to do like getting tossed into an aviary where they have lots of toys. GreycieMae spends most of her day doing 21ft pterrordactly sorties, wood chipping, trawling upside-down the top of the aviary, snacking and napping. In that order.

[Elvenking]

Of course I have dreams of an aviary or a bird room for Isaac. I do have a few things that are taking precedence over that at the moment and it is currently not an option for me right now. About the best I can do for now is to get him a bigger home...and I am looking into that. These aren't changes I can make over night. Isaac does have my Green Cheek Conure Pedro home with him all day and they can see each other. Pedro doesn't like how friendly Isaac gets though. He chases after Isaac's feet.

 

Anyway, I agree on both accounts. I give Isaac 4-7 hours of out time a day. He flies like an ace during that time and almost always uses his locomotion to find me and what I am doing. I imagine it sucks being in the cage after some time like that. He knows how to ask for out and when you hear your best friend say, "Out"...well you know. Uhhg it kills. Cages suck balls. My appreciation for him has far outgrown the idea that a cage is right for Isaac....it does complicate things. He is super happy though...I got that. And his life will only get better. He's good.