Help Needed

[Muse]

After the recent thread on "Lesson Learned", as part of our educational program, I would love to compile stories of bird escapes by both clipped and flighted birds, including whether they were retrieved or not, especially ones regarding clipped birds and their ability to fly when startled. My goal is to promote awareness of a birds right and need to remain flighted, and the article will finish with ways to maintain safety with a flighted flock.

 

We have 49 flighted birds at this time. We've been really lucky but I have to say the two close calls (both Marden) were not with flighted but with clipped bird. His initial clip did not prevent flight as he was maintaining height, and even flying around corners into different rooms as well as even flying from the floor up to stands and play tops. So we took him back and they clipped one extra feather and took about another half to an inch off the already clipped flights. This slowed him down, but did not stop him from flying. (This was right after we got them and like most new bird owners, we were going on the advice of the store that they "needed" to be clipped for safety.)

 

Despite having clipped wings he proved to me he could fly if he wanted to. We were outside sitting in a chair (no harness) and he was in my lap. I don't think he was even startled. He just wanted to fly. He took off and flew clear across the yard, which was a good sized lot, and landed on the top of the privacy fence bordering the neighbor's yard. That was the last time he went out without a leash with me. He landed on the fence when I screamed his name and allowed me to walk over and pick him up, but I know it was probably an hour before my heart stopped pounding in my chest.

 

The second time was when my husband decided he knew better than me, and wanted to take them outside on his shoulder while we were having a garage sale. It was extremely hot and we had one of those mister things that looks like a coil of hose that stands upright with the mister on the end so you can bend the 'coil' to point it where you want it. He walked too close to this and Mar evidently was not in the mood to be misted. I was walking back up the driveway when he flew over my head, going for the huge live oak in the front yard. I still to this day cannot explain how my fat, vertically challenged self managed this, but I launched upward and caught his feet. He was definitely on an upward trajectory. So I *know* for a fact that clipping does not "prevent" them from flying when they really want or feel they need to.

 

Does anyone else have similar stories they would be willing to have published in our educational literature? It would be provided free of charge during presentations at schools, pet fairs, Boy and Girl Scout meetings, etc.

 

Please let me know. I can post the article here for approval before it "goes live" and will attribute you in any manner you wish (often a first name last initial is used but you can use a forum name or anonymous as well.)

 

If anyone wants to contribute other articles on ANY helpful subject pertaining to companion birds I would be extremely grateful. I started several articles but with so many birds to care for, my writing time is very limited. I already have three up coming opportunities to present materials (as well as speak) at events so the material will be put to good use and I will be more than happy to give credit to the authors in any way they prefer.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Muse.... Sigh! I can't help you! This site already sticks with " birds need to fly". I get it. Probably 99% ( probably more than that!) I also think, that owners that decide to trim, don't tell what they do!

I am sure statistics will tell you, birds that are " free-flighted", on average, disappear, when they escape. My trimmer, a bird store owner tells me the statistics all the time. Personally, any bird going outside needs harness training. NEVER count on the trim!

As an owner that adopted Sophie age two, trimmed, and worked with my trimmer to grow her feathers back,he could trim her perfectly, to slowly learn how to fly.She got there after many years, because she didn't have the opportunity to learn to fly as a baby.

I learned several things. Having a two year old that is a real " brat", having her trimmed made her take time to learn some rules and expectations! She took time to meet and learned to love our family. she socialized! I see birds that have been fully flighted from the start, never learn to socialize and understand rules and expectations! Nancy

[Dave007]

After the recent thread on "Lesson Learned", as part of our educational program, I would love to compile stories of bird escapes by both clipped and flighted birds, including whether they were retrieved or not, especially ones regarding clipped birds and their ability to fly when startled. My goal is to promote awareness of a birds right and need to remain flighted, and the article will finish with ways to maintain safety with a flighted flock.

 

We have 49 flighted birds at this time. We've been really lucky but I have to say the two close calls (both Marden) were not with flighted but with clipped bird. His initial clip did not prevent flight as he was maintaining height, and even flying around corners into different rooms as well as even flying from the floor up to stands and play tops. So we took him back and they clipped one extra feather and took about another half to an inch off the already clipped flights. This slowed him down, but did not stop him from flying. (This was right after we got them and like most new bird owners, we were going on the advice of the store that they "needed" to be clipped for safety.)

 

Despite having clipped wings he proved to me he could fly if he wanted to. We were outside sitting in a chair (no harness) and he was in my lap. I don't think he was even startled. He just wanted to fly. He took off and flew clear across the yard, which was a good sized lot, and landed on the top of the privacy fence bordering the neighbor's yard. That was the last time he went out without a leash with me. He landed on the fence when I screamed his name and allowed me to walk over and pick him up, but I know it was probably an hour before my heart stopped pounding in my chest.

 

The second time was when my husband decided he knew better than me, and wanted to take them outside on his shoulder while we were having a garage sale. It was extremely hot and we had one of those mister things that looks like a coil of hose that stands upright with the mister on the end so you can bend the 'coil' to point it where you want it. He walked too close to this and Mar evidently was not in the mood to be misted. I was walking back up the driveway when he flew over my head, going for the huge live oak in the front yard. I still to this day cannot explain how my fat, vertically challenged self managed this, but I launched upward and caught his feet. He was definitely on an upward trajectory. So I *know* for a fact that clipping does not "prevent" them from flying when they really want or feel they need to.

 

Does anyone else have similar stories they would be willing to have published in our educational literature? It would be provided free of charge during presentations at schools, pet fairs, Boy and Girl Scout meetings, etc.

 

Please let me know. I can post the article here for approval before it "goes live" and will attribute you in any manner you wish (often a first name last initial is used but you can use a forum name or anonymous as well.)

 

If anyone wants to contribute other articles on ANY helpful subject pertaining to companion birds I would be extremely grateful. I started several articles but with so many birds to care for, my writing time is very limited. I already have three up coming opportunities to present materials (as well as speak) at events so the material will be put to good use and I will be more than happy to give credit to the authors in any way they prefer.

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190512-WingClipping-Part-1-Objective-Neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190511-WingClipping-Part-2-objective-neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190510-WingClipping-Part-3-objective-neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190509-WingClipping-Part-4-Objective-Neutral

[Brat Birds]

I don't remember if I have shared the full stories of both of my days from hell. First was Skittles, my free flying, Sun Conure. Bright one Saturday morning as I opened the door to let my dog out - which I had done for years - with Skits on my shoulder! This time the dog, a black lab/dalmation mix, pushed past me fast, knocking me off balance. Skits startled and out the door he went. I gave chase - both vertically (at 4'10') and weight challenged - I could not chase for long. Blessing to be had, Skits landed in a tree in my backyard. I called and called. He just sat what seemed to me to be miles up the tree. I moved his cage out there and put his favorite food just inside the door. Nothing, no reaction. I ran inside to get my phone and called my daughter. She lives about 45 minutes away. She and my granddaughter got up and on the way out the door my granddaughter grabbed a butterfly net. I grabbed a chair and for that hour I sat a little ways away from the tree, so I could see Skittles and all he did was go up a couple more branches. Finally my helpers arrived. My daughter climbed the tree as high as she could - did I mention it was not a huge tree - and then all she could think to do is shake the branches. As I held my breathe, she shook. Skittles flew, thank God, down two branches! She shook the tree again and as Skits started to fly she caught him in the butterfly net! We all celebrated with a breakfast at McDonald's LOL, well not Skits - he got an extra piece of fruit.

[Brat Birds]

My 2nd day from hell was also a Saturday. I did have the good sense to have these happen on a day that my daughter wasn't working! LOL So, not having learned my lesson, I was on my way to let the dog out when I lost my balance and slipped into the door. Out the door went Peanut. At this time he was flying though not very good at it yet, due to a horrible feather chop as a baby. I called and called. I had not been able to see where he went. So, again I called my daughter and granddaughter. I walked around my yard as I waited. Calling, whistling, singing, anything I could think of that might make Peanut come out where I could see him. Nothing. My helpers arrived. They walked a bit around my yard and the edges of the neighbors. I live out in the rural area, so neighbors are not very close. I went back in the house and made up flyers which we then delivered to the 10 or so neighbors just around me. We walked around some more. And then some more. Four hours later we went a couple of miles away to lunch. Now it had been over 6 hours and I was giving up hope. We came home and as we were going in the house my daughter said "SHSSSH" and then took off running. A few minutes later, from across the street in a row of bushes under some young apple trees, she emerged with Peanut on her arm. She had heard him calling. I, being so unemotional, ran into the house and cried. I would touch Peanut until my daughter had him in the house. Then I couldn't let him go. He was so happy to be home. Almost as happy as I was to have him here. For about four years after this he would not stay on my shoulder if I went anywhere near the front door!

Edited August 28, 2014 by Brat Birds

[Muse]

Muse.... Sigh! I can't help you! This site already sticks with " birds need to fly". I get it. Probably 99% ( probably more than that!) I also think, that owners that decide to trim, don't tell what they do!

I am sure statistics will tell you, birds that are " free-flighted", on average, disappear, when they escape. My trimmer, a bird store owner tells me the statistics all the time. Personally, any bird going outside needs harness training. NEVER count on the trim!

As an owner that adopted Sophie age two, trimmed, and worked with my trimmer to grow her feathers back,he could trim her perfectly, to slowly learn how to fly.She got there after many years, because she didn't have the opportunity to learn to fly as a baby.

I learned several things. Having a two year old that is a real " brat", having her trimmed made her take time to learn some rules and expectations! She took time to meet and learned to love our family. she socialized! I see birds that have been fully flighted from the start, never learn to socialize and understand rules and expectations! Nancy

 

Thanks for your reply, Nancy. I actually have three that were parent-fed and fledged naturally from the nest at their own pace. I recently took four birds to the vet. Three were hand-fed, clipped (one before he ever learned to fly). Out of all four, Noah, the co-parented and always flighted was *the* best behaved. Peck also is flighted and as far as I know was never clipped in his former home but he is truly a "remote control" bird. He has a T-perch atop the fridge. Yesterday when making breakfast, he flew off the stand to the top of the fridge, but not the perch. Yet it only took words to get him to leave the shiny on the fridge alone. He sat there and aside from dropping a bomb down the front of the fridge, was a perfect gentleman. Megan gets up there and destroys everything her beak can reach. I refuse to move things because I feel they need to learn THEIR boundaries. I didn't "put stuff out of reach" (unless it was dangerous) for the girls, I surely won't for a bird, lol.

 

I think there is a difference between a trim and a clip also. I have heard the statistics from many, but in my limited personal experience, I have seen several birds (flighted) survive and eventually be found. Not so sure that would work out for a clipped bird that can't escape the many predators.

 

Thank you again for your input! Sophie sounds like she's outgrown the "brat" stage! Maybe someday Megan will, but I am not holding my breath.

[Muse]

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190512-WingClipping-Part-1-Objective-Neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190511-WingClipping-Part-2-objective-neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190510-WingClipping-Part-3-objective-neutral

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190509-WingClipping-Part-4-Objective-Neutral

 

Dave- how would you like me to attribute these? They will be featured in printed material as well as on our website under "resources" (yet to be developed). Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

[Muse]

My 2nd day from hell was also a Saturday. I did have the good sense to have these happen on a day that my daughter wasn't working! LOL So, not having learned my lesson, I was on my way to let the dog out when I lost my balance and slipped into the door. Out the door went Peanut. At this time he was flying though not very good at it yet, due to a horrible feather chop as a baby. I called and called. I had not been able to see where he went. So, again I called my daughter and granddaughter. I walked around my yard as I waited. Calling, whistling, singing, anything I could think of that might make Peanut come out where I could see him. Nothing. My helpers arrived. They walked a bit around my yard and the edges of the neighbors. I live out in the rural area, so neighbors are not very close. I went back in the house and made up flyers which we then delivered to the 10 or so neighbors just around me. We walked around some more. And then some more. Four hours later we went a couple of miles away to lunch. Now it had been over 6 hours and I was giving up hope. We came home and as we were going in the house my daughter said "SHSSSH" and then took off running. A few minutes later, from across the street in a row of bushes under some young apple trees, she emerged with Peanut on her arm. She had heard him calling. I, being so unemotional, ran into the house and cried. I would touch Peanut until my daughter had him in the house. Then I couldn't let him go. He was so happy to be home. Almost as happy as I was to have him here. For about four years after this he would not stay on my shoulder if I went anywhere near the front door!

-emphasis mine

 

I think they know. We had a feral cat the neighbors had been trying to shoot. We trapped her and brought her inside. She was a full-grown adult feral, and I suspect from her extreme fear of humans probably not a first generation feral either. She HATED doors. If someone opened one, she made a mad dash for her 'safe spot' under our bed (and up into the box springs).

[Muse]

Thanks so much for sharing your stories. They will be used both in print and on our website, so just let me know how you'd like me to attribute them.

[2birds]

Honestly, I think you have to be pretty vigilant whether they are clipped, trimmed, or flighted. I think all have there pros and cons so it just comes down to what works for individuals. I trimmed Poet to keep her a little sane and not fly into windows. She can still fly so therefore can still fly into a window hence the stickers on the windows for now. Having a trim does slow her down a bit so at least she won't break her neck. I don't have a problem saying that I trimmed her and I don't have a problem saying that my other two are flighted. I just do what will work best for the moment. If it turns out to be a bad decision then I'll just make another one.

Edited August 28, 2014 by 2birds

[Muse]

You make some great points. Thanks for sharing! Do you mind if I ask why the other two are not trimmed? Do they fly a little more "sane" than Poet? Do you trim yourself or have someone else do it?

 

We do trim for safety. I am an ex-psych nurse. The first thing they teach you about using restraints (and as far as I am concerned, clipped wings are indeed a restraint) is that it is only appropriate to do so for two reasons: if the patient is a danger to others, or a danger to themselves. I feel that a bird that is flying erratically or panicked can indeed be a serious danger to themselves. At that point, they get clipped. Depending on how panicky, perhaps severely clipped. It is based solely on limiting their ability to get sufficient speed to injure themselves.

 

It sounds like you've made wise decisions. Thanks again for sharing!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

MUSE... OMG! I LOVE you, but trimming a bird is NOT a restraint!I don't want a battle to happen " clipped or free flighted." I don't like the word clipped! Its simple... develop chest muscles, encourage flying between two members of the family and praise. Provide " decals", in the window, as baby's struggle with perception. As babies mature, and they are flying everywhere, they enter terrible two's, don't listen, fly off. TRIM them so they can fly between two rooms, but need to land. " Clipping", is NOT a word I understand, nor would NEVER do! Do I trim? HELL yeah! I tell my trimmer I want my birds to fly two rooms he delivers!

I am soooo tired of parrents attacking owners that trim, but yet, their birds have pulled out their feathers!

I am just supporting bird owners that trim... I don't see them here. Sophie can fly every where and anywhere. It did take her a decade.Its not my battle, as I am not suffering it. Nancy

[2birds]

You make some great points. Thanks for sharing! Do you mind if I ask why the other two are not trimmed? Do they fly a little more "sane" than Poet? Do you trim yourself or have someone else do it?

 

We do trim for safety. I am an ex-psych nurse. The first thing they teach you about using restraints (and as far as I am concerned, clipped wings are indeed a restraint) is that it is only appropriate to do so for two reasons: if the patient is a danger to others, or a danger to themselves. I feel that a bird that is flying erratically or panicked can indeed be a serious danger to themselves. At that point, they get clipped. Depending on how panicky, perhaps severely clipped. It is based solely on limiting their ability to get sufficient speed to injure themselves.

 

It sounds like you've made wise decisions. Thanks again for sharing!

 

The other two are not trimmed because they are not a problem to me or themselves being flighted. There are only a few spots that they fly to and they don't go for the windows. Yes, I trimmed Poet myself and very lightly. I learned to trim feathers as a kid. As far as toenails go, I'm a little bit leery of that but their perches keep them down anyway.