Just started biting hard

[furley]

Hi People,tried to find some imfo from reading but maybe some one can help.I have a 3 year old gray sako and she has been the gentlest lady and never has bitten me hard at all just gental nibbles but I can tell when she might not like something as she well bite a little harder then normal and I know she is not happy and I well respect her and just leave along.But just lately she has taking it to a hole new level as all of a sudden she well clamp on to my hand when I try to put her back on her cadge and well not let go as I have to flick her off me as she is breaking skin and drawing blood, I feel so bad when I do this as she gos hard and that's all I can do to get her to stop as if I try to grab her she just clamps on to what ever she can.When this happens I just let her be and she can find her own way back to her cadge as if I try to pick her up I know she well just go at me again so I just let her be.

This has happened now about 3 times in the last 2 weeks and I am worried she is starting a bad habit and I would like stop this right now before it become something more then it has to be.

Please can anyone help me with this.Is it something they all do at times and I need to read her better or am I missing something, because she is good and then of all of a sudden she turns.when she does this and I have to do something that I dont like to do like shake her off, and if this happens how long do I leave her before I try again because I don't want her to loose trust in me, and I don't want to loose the connection we have because I have to flick her off me and she starts to not want to be around people or something, but I also need her to know this is not good behavior and I want to help her stop doing this in case she does it to someone else while she is siting on there hand.

Please advise.thank you if someone can help...

[Inara]

Furley, how troubling for you, for sure. It seems like you read her very well, and that she is great at letting you know at other times when she is not wanting something to happen, and you've said that you respect that. Since she's really chomping down when you are taking her back to her cage, she's saying, "Hey, I tried to let you know the usual way that I don't want this to happen, and you're not getting it - so I will just clamp down harder!"

 

From your post, this looks like it's just happening when you take her to her cage, correct? Make going back to her cage something that she will want to do and that is pleasant. Do you give her a nice treat when you put her back at her cage? It might take a bit of work on your part to help Sako understand that going back to her cage is not a bad thing. Some people have an open cage policy that works really good for them and their birds. Is there a reason that you need to put her back, or can she just be left out to go back on her own when she is hungry, etc?

 

Just this evening Inara wasn't ready to go home to her cage at her usual time. We had had a guest for dinner and Inara didn't get her usual one on one time with me before bedtime. So as I was walking her back to her cage and went to move her off of my shoulder, she nudged my hand several times and so I respected that and told her that I understood, then walked around with her for a bit gave her a little more attention and then moved her into her cage for the night. Sometimes when just given a little more time, they will change their minds. She also gets either a little bite of grape or a teeensy piece of cheese when she goes back into her home. Tonight what she wanted more than that, was just some extra time with me.

 

Are you spending as much time with Sako as usual? Has her routine changed? Every time you pick her up does it mean she is going to be put in her cage? What is she doing right before you take her to her cage? Has anything in or near the cage recently changed?

 

There are a lot great brains here, and lots of collective experience to help you brainstorm a solution. If you can give as much information as possible, it makes it easier to help.

[Muse]

Megan used to do this and in fact, my next to the last bite was for trying to put her in a cage when she did not want to go. She reached over and bit down hard on the inside of my forearm, breaking skin and twisting so she left a nice big knot and bruise that lasted for a couple of weeks.

 

My solution has been to put her on the step up stick. I took one upstairs and put it by the sleeping cage. She doesn't normally sleep IN the cage (it's more of a glorified food and water bowl holder) but occasionally she will decide to fly off her stand, land on the bed and chew the covers or other antics, and then she goes in the cage. She's never happy about it as she prefers to sleep in her 'tree'. By using the stick, I keep that beak out of easy reach of my flesh, and by moving the stick and sometimes twisting it just slightly it keeps her off-balance. When she has to focus on balance, she's not sizing up the best spot for a bite.

 

Most of the time she will step up on my hand and she's fine. But if I know there is a bite risk (as in she is going to be asked to do something she definitely does not want to do) I use the stick.

 

Be very careful flicking her off as birds can easily be injured or even killed accidentally. I know bites hurt and our natural reaction is to pull quickly away but sometimes this makes things worse.

 

Sometimes making a sharp, loud noise will cause them to let go. This is what another parrot would do, if you have ever watched them wrestle or play. I have been working with our big male using this technique and am having great success at teaching him to be more gentle. He lands on my head and initially I thought he was going to pluck me bald. He would grab hair and yank it hard enough to pull small clumps out at times. I found by giving a quick, loud "YIPE!" he realizes he's hurting me and he's getting successively more and more gentle until tonight he was very tenderly preening me and sat there for several minutes doing so ever so gently. I realize this goes against the advice that the "expert" trainers give, but I have done this for years with pups and kittens and am now having success with the birds as well. Yes, often they set out to hurt us, but then other times I suspect they just don't realize it hurts us.

 

You will find a method that works for you, but in the meantime, please just be careful to avoid injuring your bird and also to avoid worsening the injury to yourself. Best of luck with your girl!

[furley]

Thank you Inara,but I also have an open cadge policy,I have never locked her in her cadge she comes and gos as she pleases,also I have built her a little inclosed Avery outside a window that she can access from inside my house to out side.I spend lots of time with her as I am around lots but I work at nights.I have only had here for about 4 months as she was a friend of mines bird and he could not spend time with her and I use to have a gray but he had passed on me so he new how much time I put into cypress and asked me if I would take her in So I have and we have bonded fairly good so far as Sako has been really genital and I have not pushed the fact to bond but let it come naturally, and she seems to love being with me as my friend never really did a lot with her. When I got home last night from work she came to me and wanted her cuddles as she does every night and was just fine with me.I have started to train with her and I try to introduce new things to her all the time and give her as much attention as I can, she never had a problem stepping up or hanging with me as she seems to like to be around people more so then be by her self,the times she has done this has kinda caught me by surprise and I feel is out of careater for her, that's why I am worried that I am missing some thing.

Thank you muse and I am with you on being carefull as I would never want to hurt her in any way,and the last thing I want to do is flick her off as I made a loud noise and did everything I could before my last resouse was to flick her off me, and I felt so bad after I did it.yesterday when this happened and I just walked away from her as she was in her avery and I wasn`t going back to get beat up anymore sort a speaking lolo,she climbed up on her out side cadge and was whistling and talking after I went out which was good to here as a new she was not hurt.

I am just not sure if all of you have gone threw this kinda thing at one point with your birds or is she starting to develop a bad hobbit, I am trying to read her for when she gos into this mood so I can let her be and not give her the chance to try, but each time she has done this now I have been surprised by it as she has never shown me any aggression before and I asked her other owner and he told me that she only did it once to him in the 3 years he had her other than that she has been so gentle.

Thanks again for your input and if anyone can give me incite I would truly appreciate it.

[Inara]

Hi Furley. I think I see now. I thought that this was only happening when you were going to put her back into her cage, and I must have misread your original post. So what you are saying is that your normally sweet girl, has taken to giving you some major chomps lately that have come as a complete surprise. Is she doing this after you have been holding her for awhile, or is it happening more when you go to pick her up? Has it happened near the same time of day, or near a certain place? Or does it just seem random to you?

 

When Inara first came to live with us, she would happily go over to my husband's hand, give him a whistle, fluff up and tail wag and then a few seconds later nip his thumb hard! (not to the degree you are describing -- yikes!). We figured out that she was OK and secure saying Hi to him for just a very short time and then she wanted to be put either back down, or passed over to me and the only way she knew how to say that was by nipping. We, too, were worried that this would keep up, but we managed to help her and Joe by limiting the time he holds her on his hand and we also noticed that she would glance around a bit right before she would nip. The glancing around seemed to be her way of saying -- OK I am looking for a way out of here now. Now she can just fly off if she wants to, but back then she didn't know how to fly.

 

I wish I could be more helpful. If she's already on you when she does it, watch for a bit of restlessness or glancing around. Also are you sitting, standing, or moving when she does it? Try to look back at each of the incidents and recall what you were doing right before it happened. Sometimes with Inara if I move too quickly, because I'm so relaxed with her on me and I forget that this can startle her, she will give me a squawk and a beak thump. It is fantastic that you and Sako are bonding so easily, and I'm sure you will get to the bottom of this.

 

Try to think: time of day, where it has happened, where was she on my body, was I wearing a hat, or something different than usual, was i moving toward a specific place, what was I doing at the time, was she giving me any signals like glancing around, shifting her weight, narrowing her eyes a little bit? l? (I'm not talking about her pupils --sometimes that can mean "watch out" sometimes that can mean just excitement) A relaxed grey's eye shape is usually nice and round and open -- when stressed or frightened or wary they tense up their eye muscles and the shape of they will become more narrowed. We as humans, need to keep our own eyes open and relaxed (without staring) with our birds, and from time to time cock our heads a bit when looking at them for longer periods of time.

 

By looking back at each incident and examining the above questions, it may help you find a pattern to the bites. If there is no pattern, then it could be that she is simply tired or just having an off day, as we humans do also, or she may be starting a molt and has pin feathers that are irritating to her and you may have inadvertently made it worse by holding her a certain way. I do know how frustrating it must be for you to have your sweet girl responding in such an out of character way.

[furley]

Thank you Inara,I well keep what you have suggested here in mind and try to read her better and I well pay attention to when she might try or do and pick up on maybe why.I feel she knows when I am going to work and she doesn't want me to go as she is here by her self then and if I remember I do believe each time it has happened was when I was bring her back to her domain,she has lots of room to play and lots of freedom to do as she pleases as i am not one to lock her in her cadge as she has never shredded anything in my home Yet as in furniture as I sako proof as much as I can,and I am a very simple man and and don't have a lot of so called treasures here that I worry that she well wreck but that in mind I do do what I need to do to not give her a chance to.

Thanks for the incite on the eye thing as when she has done something bad I have gave her the stare down and from what you say here that's not so good to do so thank you for the heads up on that.And I well watch for the change in her eyes.

Anyone else out here with any suggestion for me please do as I need to learn from the experienced people here so I can give her the best that I can,even though she is sorta stuck with a human.... Thanks again Inara

[katana600]

Hi Furley and welcome to the forum. Reading this thread what comes to my mind is the honeymoon phase. Even if Sako knew you before, she changed homes only four months ago. In a new home a grey will likely be on observation status, getting to know the habits and expectations. After a time it becomes evident she is not going back to her familiar home. By that time she may have gotten familiar enough with you to test you. You seem good at reading and understanding her. She does need to know biting is not acceptable. It's real hard to know how to help without knowing her but we will all be thinking about it as you go and hopefully come to understand what is distressing her. If it is related to her cage, have you changed anything? Are her perches, food, toys etc. in the cage the same? Sometimes it's the smallest change that she may be reacting to. It will be a challenge to understand her frustration. Also, if this is an issue of going into the cage at night, or when you need to leave the house, making it a predictable routine may help. Such as going to the kitchen to get a treat and giving it to her after she goes in. Sometimes, attaching a perch inside the cage door so you don't reach in the cage as you put her in. Leave the door open, put her on the perch, then close the door. I hope you get it sorted without getting bitten any more.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

furley... I also have an open cage policy. A tougher situation, for sure. I'm suspecting... terrible two's more around three. Open cage concept, makes me understand things a little better. The delay, is typical for a bird with " open cage" concept. Unfortunately, your bird still needs to learn " rules!" Not only for their safety, but to continue to open cage concept. I would suggest ( I know many are going to HATE what I say)... getting a timeout cage. Has to be big enough ( at least half the size of normal cage). No toys. NOT meant to be fun. If bird bites hard.... off to timeout cage. One minute for every year. When bitten... say NO NO BITE! Immediately off to timeout cage. Once timeout is done, discuss with your bird that biting is NOT acceptable, but let baby know that you still love them. It was tough, kids had to help and follow thru. Took less then six months for Sophie to finally understand. Nancy

[furley]

Thank you katana600 and kins,I dont think it is a cage thing as she never gets locked in her cage,and she can come and go as she likes ,she usually sleeps in my room on her perch as I get home at 11 at night and when I do and go to bed she just kept jumping from her cage and heading to my room so now i just put her in there at night if she show singhs of jumping,not sure if this is good idea,but some nights she just sits on her cage ,but most nights she seems to want to sleep in my room when I get home,I try to be quit and not to disturb her but not easy and i don't mind her sleeping in my room as she just settles in and gos to sleep.. I think it has to do with here just being mad at me for something I have done and I have not been able to tell she is getting mad and I just maybe push her to far some how.

When she has bitten me I have told her that this is not good by no biting no biting in a good stern voice and then I just leave her and not interact with her for awhile till she has settled down which may be hour or more then I see if she is ready to have a talk and we sit and I tell her this is not good and give her some loving and ask why and tell her I am sorry for doing what I did but she still cant bite.and i make sure she know were all good.and the funny thing now is when she does anything that she knows she should be doing she says in my exact voice (No biting No biting) so i know now when she is getting up to something maybe not so good lololo.

I well keep reading and trying to watch when it happens and take in all you guys advice here,so thank you guys so much for your incite and please keep giving me your story's are advice,as I totally appreciate it all

Love and Light my bird friends.

Edited July 28, 2014 by furley

[katana600]

All in good time she will have you trained and wrapped around her little talon. Then you will learn how to "do things right" in Sako's mind to be her perfect companion. You have the patience, some grey experience and good judgement. You will learn her subtle signals and how to stop the fun before she gets to the biting stage. You have a great attitude, follow your instincts.

[Ray P]

The one thing you want to address here is her biting with out jeopardizing your relationship. The best way to do this is distraction.

There are tree ways of distraction. One, the roll method , Two the drop method and three the earthquake method. Each method works find if done properly. .

I use the two bite and roll method. When they are on your finger or forearm and start to bite you say no bite and if they continue you gently roll your just enough to get them off balance and say no bite again and when they stop biting you praise them tell them how good they are in a very excited voice. This may take a little time but don`t give up. If they bite and you say no bite and they stop after the first warning make sure you praise them for stopping biting and they get the idea. After that the biting get less and less and if they do bite it won`t be as hard and they will stop when you tell them to.

Remember not to be too rough as you want to distract them and not set back your relationship.

 

Be Gentle

Edited July 28, 2014 by Ray P

[Greytness]

I'd also like to add giving your bird the evil eye to Ray's methods. If Maalik doesn't stop biting after using Ray's tried and true techniques, I'll place him back on his perch or cage, give him the evil eye, and growl, 'no biting'. The visual look of displeasure does seem to work for us.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

All have " great advice!" Remember too... never wait an hour. They have no idea what you are talking about, at that time. Greys deal with anything that is " current". Nancy

[Muse]

Sadly, we discovered this past week that one of our birds apparently was either hit with something or flung. He is very nippy, so I suspect that it may have been a bite reaction that caused someone to try to fling him off, but it must have been a violent one. We knew he was blind in one eye, however the vet exam showed that his eyeball was actually ruptured. He also has on the same side as the eye a shattered leg. It healed into kind of a U shape so he walks with a pronounced limp. She said she could feel several breaks and of course it was not set properly so he probably got no vet care after the injury at all. It is very sad. Even worse is the news that his good eye is developing a cataract and he will soon be completely blind.