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Isaac Update: Feathers Coming Back


Elvenking

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So sorry this is so frustrating!

 

It's okay...the frustration doesn't last for long. It is just really hard when you see so much progress...and you know how hard it is for those feathers to grow...to see feathers then on the floor. It is just going to take longer than I had imagined.

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I have always enjoyed reading about your tender moments between you and Isaac and I felt your concern when Isaac lost his feathers.

I know just how much you love your feathered companion and your concern for his health and wellbeing.

I would bet that Isaac loves you just as much as you love Isaac !

Stay happy my friend.

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I can identify with those moments of exasperation and dismay at seeing a blizzard of shreddings and fluff on the cage liner and in the water dish. We have learned the meaning of grey time with Miss Gilbert. I've always thought it was easier to weather the storm by looking at baby pictures. Whether a frustration with our beloved Miss G-bird or a trying time in the teen years of our two girls those baby pictures are a reminder of how far we have come. This too shall pass and all things will be right again in Isaac's kingdom. He has the best relationship with you and he is your boyeee!

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I believe you have a great relationship with Isaac. If you didn't love him as if he were your child, you would not find his plucking so upsetting. The more we love these little feathered children, the harder it hits us when all is not right in their world. I am sorry if my comments sounded as if I were suspecting you of scolding him. I just wanted to urge you to try not to feel frustrated as he may pick up on that. I swear sometimes I think they can read our minds.

 

And I do understand life is definitely complex, especially where emotions are concerned. The frustration is normal. Especially when you don't know what is causing the problem so there is no simple fix. The plucking is not like other health issues, as it doesn't come with a very clear cause. There are so many possibilities that span the physical, mental and emotional aspects and that alone can cause extreme frustration. I think sometimes the feeling of helplessness is the worst form of frustration. I remember feeling that when the girls were little and got sick and there was nothing I could do to fix it or make it better.

 

I hope whatever is causing Isaac to pluck soon passes. He is a lucky bird to have such a devoted daddy.

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Elvenking... You and Isaac have such a great relationship! Sophie LOVES her sunlight and has adopted one of my favorite chairs, that I moved next to sliding glass door. I'm going to harness her this year and get her outside. I was a bad parent ( naive), and took Sophie outside without a harness. She would always dig in the dirt, and LOVED being outside with me. I was lucky she never flew away during those summers when unable to fly, was outside always with me in the summer.I know she misses those times, but I became educated. I'm still unsure of the harness but I really hate her watching me garden without her thru the door. She is happy to see me and I always interact with her.

I'm concerned she will consider the harness as a form of " restraint". It worries me. I know very little about harness training. You can teach Sophie anything, if it benefits her, and allows her to be with us. Nancy

 

Marden took to the harness the first day. He did not like wearing it but he tolerated it because he knew if he had it on, fun things happened - like car rides, eating out, going to the stores and picking out his own toys, and other fun stuff. I am sure Sophie will see the benefit in it, just as Marden did, and learn to tolerate the mussed feathers in return for getting to enjoy the great outdoors. If you get the Aviator, it comes with a DVD on training. I am betting with Sophie it will be really super easy. She's such a smart girl.

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I can identify with those moments of exasperation and dismay at seeing a blizzard of shreddings and fluff on the cage liner and in the water dish. We have learned the meaning of grey time with Miss Gilbert. I've always thought it was easier to weather the storm by looking at baby pictures. Whether a frustration with our beloved Miss G-bird or a trying time in the teen years of our two girls those baby pictures are a reminder of how far we have come. This too shall pass and all things will be right again in Isaac's kingdom. He has the best relationship with you and he is your boyeee!

 

Yeah...looking at the baby pictures and pictures with him fully feathered kind of does the opposite for me. It shows me a bird full of the most beautiful plumage I have ever seen and it makes me miss it. It also reminds me that I am not being good for him in some way or another. If I was all good for him, he would have his feathers. That is the crux of the frustration, is that I can love him so much, and still not be all good for him.

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I believe you have a great relationship with Isaac. If you didn't love him as if he were your child, you would not find his plucking so upsetting. The more we love these little feathered children, the harder it hits us when all is not right in their world. I am sorry if my comments sounded as if I were suspecting you of scolding him. I just wanted to urge you to try not to feel frustrated as he may pick up on that. I swear sometimes I think they can read our minds.

 

And I do understand life is definitely complex, especially where emotions are concerned. The frustration is normal. Especially when you don't know what is causing the problem so there is no simple fix. The plucking is not like other health issues, as it doesn't come with a very clear cause. There are so many possibilities that span the physical, mental and emotional aspects and that alone can cause extreme frustration. I think sometimes the feeling of helplessness is the worst form of frustration. I remember feeling that when the girls were little and got sick and there was nothing I could do to fix it or make it better.

 

I hope whatever is causing Isaac to pluck soon passes. He is a lucky bird to have such a devoted daddy.

 

Yeah, they are certainly more in tune with emotions than people typically are. So I work hard to be genuinely affectionate and happy with Isaac. I already have feelings that maybe birds this beautiful and intelligent shouldn't be 'kept'. He is so smart and kind and I have so much respect for him. It is quite amazing how my view of parrots has grown with him. The day that he got out...even though I was fretting him possibly disappearing forever...I had never seen such a beautiful thing as him soaring through the air so fast. I could see his eyes looking around as he circled me. The fact that he jumped from branch to branch finally coming back to me let's me know that at least he thinks I am good for him somehow....but when I see him sheading feathers....ohhh man....OHHH man.....please baby...please be okay. I need to be everything he needs me to be. I am not right for anything else.

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Marden took to the harness the first day. He did not like wearing it but he tolerated it because he knew if he had it on, fun things happened - like car rides, eating out, going to the stores and picking out his own toys, and other fun stuff. I am sure Sophie will see the benefit in it, just as Marden did, and learn to tolerate the mussed feathers in return for getting to enjoy the great outdoors. If you get the Aviator, it comes with a DVD on training. I am betting with Sophie it will be really super easy. She's such a smart girl.

 

I have the harness for Isaac. I had gotten it on him when he was younger and it was a bit scary for him I guess. He didn't like passing through doors at all. I got it on him about three times, and now I am not sure how I would get it over his head again. He sees it coming and there is just no way to get something over a birds head when he doesn't want it....very open to suggestions through.

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I echoed your same sentiments, but as the saying goes "what is done, is done" -these birds are either socialized or bred to be with humans and would not have a fair chance in the wild. I believe it damps down their instincts when they live in a protected environment where their needs (and in cases like most of the birds in this forum - every whim) is easily handed them. But my guilt over keeping our birds confined is what prompted us to want to sink as much resources as possible into giving them a huge aviary to fly in. No, it's not being 'in the wild' but it is as close as I can give them and still protect them. And then I also think that we started out 'free' and living in caves or tents and that does not mean I'd necessarily want to give up all the comforts of modern life to return to that freedom - so maybe they really can be happier here. I noticed at Project Perry over the weekend that some of the birds were extremely interested in coming to the mesh of their aviaries and wanting human contact. Do they miss their previous lives? Are they ones that had a good human somewhere in their lives that they are fondly remembering? Are they missing the snuggles and scritches they wouldn't get in the wild? It's definitely a very tough ethical debate on whether we should 'keep' them, but at this point, they need us and I like to think they also love us. I can tell Isaac really loves you just from the pictures you share here.

 

I think Isaac will be just fine. He gets a lot of love and has someone who truly cares for him. This plucking could just be a hormonal phase and it may end as quickly as it started. Did I misread or did you say that he did this at some other point, around the same time of year?

 

Plucking or not, he's an absolutely gorgeous Grey. You can see his intelligence and spirit in his beautiful eyes.

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I'm no expert by any means. I showed Marden the harness, and he let me put it on. Megan has given me some seriously vicious bites and is not keen on letting me touch her except by express permission (she makes a soft cooing noise and that signifies that I can pet her without being bitten). I am slowly working with her. We are only up to "touch the harness, please" and if she touches it without a lunge/snap/bite she gets a treat. I am with you on the not being able to put it over a bird's head when they are unwilling.

 

Mar had one moment of reluctance. I'd already put his diaper on (with NO resistance), and we were getting ready to go, and he decided to throw an absolute fit about the harness, but wasn't really letting me take the diaper off either. I finally looked him in the eye and told him he could not go bye bye with mommy and ride in the car if he didn't have the harness on. Suddenly he stopped fussing and let me put the harness on with no more fight. This is why I swear they read our minds. I know he probably did not fully understand the lengthy complex sentences I was using. But did he 'see' the raw thought before it translated to sentences in my brain? I have seen far too much of this type of behavior from our birds to discount it as a fluke. Maybe talk to Isaac and tell him of all the fun things he can do outside if he puts the harness on. Who knows, he may decide he wants to wear it and make it easy for you?

 

Barbara Heidenreich has a video on YouTube about harness training, however, her videos tend to look very easy as she is demonstrating pre-learned behaviors and then giving advice to those whose birds do not yet have these behaviors. I believe she's had Blu Lu from a baby, as I understand, and she's an animal trainer by profession who obviously spends a lot of time working with her birds. Also, I believe she also advocates limiting intake so that the bird is hungry as motivation for reward. Although I like Barbara as a person and respect her work as a trainer, I do not do this with my animals. I did not do it with my daughter or nieces, and suspect that withholding a percentage of a child's food in order to leave them hungry as a way to control their behavior might be construed as criminal child abuse. By the same token, I work with the birds the same way I did with the girls. And so far, we have few problems. No, my birds don't do circus tricks, but they do get in the carrier, even the wilder ones have been well-behaved at the vet, and they all mostly cooperate with routines which is all I will ever ask of them. That said, Barbara's video does give good tips on working with a bird to get them to accept the harness and might be worth a look.

 

I will continue to work with Megan, and at some point she may decide to accept the harness. She really looked like she was thinking about it today, when I offered to take her to the pet store. She had that look of almost being convinced but just not quite. You could almost see little wheels of thought going as she hesitated before turning away. She then returned to her cage, voluntarily, as if she knew I'd be putting her back before going out. She's a smart but very stubborn little girl.

 

Good luck with Isaac and the harness. Maybe we can commiserate as we both try to convince our Greybies that the harness is a good thing for them!

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Yeah...looking at the baby pictures and pictures with him fully feathered kind of does the opposite for me. It shows me a bird full of the most beautiful plumage I have ever seen and it makes me miss it. It also reminds me that I am not being good for him in some way or another. If I was all good for him, he would have his feathers. That is the crux of the frustration, is that I can love him so much, and still not be all good for him.

 

I truly think from this post you are being too hard on yourself. What if this is just hormonal? Then it has *nothing* to do with you. You can be absolutely nothing but good for him and yet this behavior can be completely unrelated to anything you might do or not do on his behalf. If you were not good for him, he would not have returned to you. His bond to you was so strong that he CHOSE to be with you willingly. Not many of us can say that. I am absolutely sure that all but two of my flock would probably be long gone. I'd like to believe that Maks and Alex might come to me, but then again, I don't know and am in no hurry to test that. But you have a bird that could have had his freedom yet chose you instead. I think he already believes you are everything good in his life and his returning to you is a testament to this. Please don't be so hard on yourself. It is evident that you are doing all you can for him and that you give him abundant love. And I am absolutely certain that Isaac knows this.

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Elevenking... I agree with Muse. You are too hard on yourself! You are a GREAT daddy and if Isaac is plucking... not saying he is... has NOTHING to do with what or what you didn't do! You can be the most amazing parrent, and some will pluck! You rise above it...remind yourself " I am the BEST dad you will ever find!" Believe in yourself... believe you will offer the BEST education for your bird... believe in your relationship between you and your bird. If you believe it... so will your bird.Nancy

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I truly think from this post you are being too hard on yourself. What if this is just hormonal? Then it has *nothing* to do with you. You can be absolutely nothing but good for him and yet this behavior can be completely unrelated to anything you might do or not do on his behalf. If you were not good for him, he would not have returned to you. His bond to you was so strong that he CHOSE to be with you willingly. Not many of us can say that. I am absolutely sure that all but two of my flock would probably be long gone. I'd like to believe that Maks and Alex might come to me, but then again, I don't know and am in no hurry to test that. But you have a bird that could have had his freedom yet chose you instead. I think he already believes you are everything good in his life and his returning to you is a testament to this. Please don't be so hard on yourself. It is evident that you are doing all you can for him and that you give him abundant love. And I am absolutely certain that Isaac knows this.

 

First of all....wow...thank you for taking the time to write such friendly words and advice. I really appreciate it. It is funny you know...as I was sitting on my couch watching TV last night...Isaac was playing with his cups and doing the occasional thing that requires me to get up and help him back to doing approved playful tasks. LOL....he loves to go for my speakers...so I have to place something on top of them to help ward him away. Anyway...I am sitting there and I put a foot up on the edge of the coffee table which raises my knee high and is a perfect perching spot for Isaac...so he will often fly over as soon as he sees my knee in that position. Last night he flies to where my hand is resting on the couch. Leans his head down and begins to shove his head under my half-open palm. Not the first time he has done this...but the way he was so persistent was so endearing. So I would rub and massage his head for a few while he was closing his eyes and obviously enjoying the scritches. Then I would stop and see if he still wanted more. Sure enough...shoving his head as hard as he could under my hand to get it started again. LOL...that is just kind of the cutest little thing in the world. He was all rolling his head around so the 'magic fingers' could get those areas around the bottom beak and cheeks...ohh yeah...rolling and twisting into all the good positions. In those moments, it is very hard to imagine that they would have it much better in the wild. I truly do like to believe that all situations are vastly different, but our emotions simply move from state to state in accordance with our past and current experience. Since Isaac has lived with me since his 7th week, I don't have much fear of him knowing what he is missing in any way. He seems really upbeat all the time and just accepts life on the terms he is presented. I just want to know that he has all the things he needs to be healthy and will do the best to make sure that is the case.

 

I will have to get that harness out again...it may have been long enough now to where I can try again. How wonderful would it be to take him on a hike. I would love that! A little hiking partner. We will see what a trial brings over the weekend when I have some time to sit down with him and calmly give it another go. We'll see....try to take it real slow like you are...show him the harness again...be gentle.

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Elevenking... I agree with Muse. You are too hard on yourself! You are a GREAT daddy and if Isaac is plucking... not saying he is... has NOTHING to do with what or what you didn't do! You can be the most amazing parrent, and some will pluck! You rise above it...remind yourself " I am the BEST dad you will ever find!" Believe in yourself... believe you will offer the BEST education for your bird... believe in your relationship between you and your bird. If you believe it... so will your bird. Nancy

 

Thanks for this. I am really hard on myself, but I do know that I dedicate a significant part of my life to caring for Isaac. Every time I see those little eyes blinking and looking around with such vibrant curiosity, I am captivated by the miracle that is an African Grey Parrot. He inspires respect and love like nothing else I know. I'll keep being the best bird-dad I can be.

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First of all....wow...thank you for taking the time to write such friendly words and advice. I really appreciate it. It is funny you know...as I was sitting on my couch watching TV last night...Isaac was playing with his cups and doing the occasional thing that requires me to get up and help him back to doing approved playful tasks. LOL....he loves to go for my speakers...so I have to place something on top of them to help ward him away. Anyway...I am sitting there and I put a foot up on the edge of the coffee table which raises my knee high and is a perfect perching spot for Isaac...so he will often fly over as soon as he sees my knee in that position. Last night he flies to where my hand is resting on the couch. Leans his head down and begins to shove his head under my half-open palm. Not the first time he has done this...but the way he was so persistent was so endearing. So I would rub and massage his head for a few while he was closing his eyes and obviously enjoying the scritches. Then I would stop and see if he still wanted more. Sure enough...shoving his head as hard as he could under my hand to get it started again. LOL...that is just kind of the cutest little thing in the world. He was all rolling his head around so the 'magic fingers' could get those areas around the bottom beak and cheeks...ohh yeah...rolling and twisting into all the good positions. In those moments, it is very hard to imagine that they would have it much better in the wild. I truly do like to believe that all situations are vastly different, but our emotions simply move from state to state in accordance with our past and current experience. Since Isaac has lived with me since his 7th week, I don't have much fear of him knowing what he is missing in any way. He seems really upbeat all the time and just accepts life on the terms he is presented. I just want to know that he has all the things he needs to be healthy and will do the best to make sure that is the case.

 

I will have to get that harness out again...it may have been long enough now to where I can try again. How wonderful would it be to take him on a hike. I would love that! A little hiking partner. We will see what a trial brings over the weekend when I have some time to sit down with him and calmly give it another go. We'll see....try to take it real slow like you are...show him the harness again...be gentle.

 

 

He knows what the harness is obviously but you might have better luck re-exposing it to him before trying to put it on again. I do love taking my birdy outside with me, not so sure she likes it that much. She gets stressed.

 

My Greycie will also do the flying to my hand thing. I have my laptop sitting beside my chair in the living room. She will literally sit on the arm of my chair and work her way into position where I have to go over the top of her if Im' going to use the laptop. She even gets onto the top of the screen and will hang down into the viewing area as if I have nothing better to do but pay her some attention. She's cute when she does that but I have to keep myself in check because she does it almost immediately if she sees me using the laptop.

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I just weighed Sophie to do the harness thing. Whats the best website guys to get one? I'm leary... but I will put my concerns aside, as Sophie will do anything I am confident about. It took her two times to get on the scale, but she did it. I used the " It's important card." Years ago we had a fire in the house. Kids were prepared as we always practiced, but birds were young and had no clue. We shoved them in their cages off their play gym, Rolled their cages out the door, destroying the hardwood floors in the process... I got the dogs and put them in the car as planned. I learned that we did GREAT with emergency evacuation, but birds didn't do so well as they knew nothing that could clue them into an emergency. I eventually taught Sophie the saying " Its important", so in the future she would cooperate better.I use the saying " its important" infrequently, but she knows. We practice. Nancy

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What a wonderful boy you have.

 

I have thought about what ours, who were born in captivity, might have been thinking when watching the wild Grey videos. Do they recognize the birds as being relatives? I can't say. Mar did learn to make some of the wild calls. Megan never really did until we got Peck. Maybe the "songs" are a male thing like other birds? Or maybe she's too busy speaking bossy human to be bothered with her ancestral tongue. After all, "Want some water!" gets action faster than a whistle call I cannot translate. Do they really understand that they were born into a world of being owned by another being? Who can say? But obviously Isaac has made his choice and you are it. I wouldn't want to give up that kind of love either if I were him.

 

As for the speaker thing... with Megan her thing is biting the mesh on my chair. She likes to sit on the back of my chair while I work at the computer. But the mesh is just so appealing. (Fortunately it has been holding up exceptionally well for a cheapo chair). We used to go rounds about this. "Don't bite the chair. You're going in time out if you bite the chair." *chomp* - followed quickly by her going into time out. So, the other day, I had a kind of crisis going on which required me to be at my desk and on the computer and very focused on what I was doing. I eventually got fixated and barely registered her biting the chair. Then, she just... stopped. I guess it was boring her that she was not getting a response. It would figure that the little stinker is doing things just to get a rise out of me.

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What a wonderful boy you have.

 

I have thought about what ours, who were born in captivity, might have been thinking when watching the wild Grey videos. Do they recognize the birds as being relatives? I can't say. Mar did learn to make some of the wild calls. Megan never really did until we got Peck. Maybe the "songs" are a male thing like other birds? Or maybe she's too busy speaking bossy human to be bothered with her ancestral tongue. After all, "Want some water!" gets action faster than a whistle call I cannot translate. Do they really understand that they were born into a world of being owned by another being? Who can say? But obviously Isaac has made his choice and you are it. I wouldn't want to give up that kind of love either if I were him.

 

As for the speaker thing... with Megan her thing is biting the mesh on my chair. She likes to sit on the back of my chair while I work at the computer. But the mesh is just so appealing. (Fortunately it has been holding up exceptionally well for a cheapo chair). We used to go rounds about this. "Don't bite the chair. You're going in time out if you bite the chair." *chomp* - followed quickly by her going into time out. So, the other day, I had a kind of crisis going on which required me to be at my desk and on the computer and very focused on what I was doing. I eventually got fixated and barely registered her biting the chair. Then, she just... stopped. I guess it was boring her that she was not getting a response. It would figure that the little stinker is doing things just to get a rise out of me.

 

Lol...about the chair. Sounds like your little friend has the same habits. Isaac loves to perch on the back of my chair. I should take a picture of this thing as it is a spectacle when folks walk in and see it. My solution to the chair thing at first was to wrap the back rest in a towel..well...nothing gonna stop him. Eventually, that thing falls off and he gets to the edge and starts picking it apart. So I have merely committed to buying chairs that are not that expensive. Rather than buy a 150 dollar nice desk chair...I can get 3 cheap ones. I am definitely due for a new one.

 

There can be no doubt...they decide when you should play.

 

As far as knowing if they were wild or not. I really don't believe that they have the level of concern that we do about the situation they are in. I don't think that they resist the current situation like humans do....not unless it terrifies or angers them in a way. I honestly do not think that Isaac sits in his cage thinking of all the fun he could be having outside. He merely looks around his area for things to do, chirps with my other Conure Pedro, and seems to accept what ever is going on. I leave the TV running too. I don't think they pay it much mind. I imagine he would be looking for that door to open if he was really wanting out. He doesn't really care if the doors open too much. Not that I am not keeping a very close eye when I have to pass through a door to get something outside. Everyone knows how serious that is. The house seems to be what he knows and works with.

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Sometimes the hardest part of the process is learning we can't "fix" it with love or willpower. Our greys are exquisite companions for their raw intelligence and communication skills. That works against us when we come to the realization that in some ways they surpass our limitations. In our time with Miss Gilbert, I have learned what grey time means and how to pull back and do nothing and wait. It's still the hardest thing and makes me feel all knotted up because I want to help her. It all works out with time, this too shall pass. On a side note, I have read if you get a dog leash the same color as the harness, it helps. You hang it where he can see it, then graduate to making a loop to pass over his head and continue acclimating him, passing it under his wing etc until he accepts it. Then graduate from a practice to the real harness.

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Sometimes the hardest part of the process is learning we can't "fix" it with love or willpower. Our greys are exquisite companions for their raw intelligence and communication skills. That works against us when we come to the realization that in some ways they surpass our limitations. In our time with Miss Gilbert, I have learned what grey time means and how to pull back and do nothing and wait. It's still the hardest thing and makes me feel all knotted up because I want to help her. It all works out with time, this too shall pass. On a side note, I have read if you get a dog leash the same color as the harness, it helps. You hang it where he can see it, then graduate to making a loop to pass over his head and continue acclimating him, passing it under his wing etc until he accepts it. Then graduate from a practice to the real harness.

 

Yeah...it has been a while since he has seen it...since before he was a year old. I'll get it out and get him looking at it. We'll take it slow and see what happens.

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  • 5 weeks later...

No-bird land in my house is my large wrap around desk and my chair. Brutus can sit in four other places near by, but not on my chair. I know this sounds weird, but I have a small aluminum pot lid that i have used since he was a baby and if (he rarely does) land on my chair or desk I take the pot lid up and start heading for him and he flies off. I feel like he can take his displeasure out on the lid not at me, and sometimes he bites the lid as he flies off. He KNOWS what it means. Before I leave the house I tell him, "stay off my desk." He does. I have a really valuable vintage chair, but some how he understands not to bite it. He has an atom attached to the ceiling 8 feet away, he can perch on the little tv on my desk, or on the air cleaner on my desk or in the window frame close by, but not ON my desk or ON the chair. I think he also prefers the other places since he can make eye contact with me - he can't do the on the back of my chair.

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I was inspecting Kura's feathers this morning & it made me think about Isaac. How's it going?

 

Issac is doing fine. Still getting his sun lamp and baths. Feathers just aren't sprouting over the last 3 or 4 weeks. No new ones...just a bit of waiting. The wing feathers are all staying where they are. On his tummy....he had like 5 or 6 feathers that were just waiting for the rest....then two or three weeks passed and he decided he didn't want those ones sitting there...so he "cleaned" his tummy once again and we wait to see if the next phase will makes it. He is as happy and playful as ever though. Mastering the sounds of my new phone. Just being my ever-so-sweet buddy that he is. He just had a squirt-down with 'Feather In' all over and is flying around drying off. LOL. Saying "Hi boyeee" to me every so often. Hehehehe...cute parrot. ;)

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