Guest Jocelyn Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Romeo cant fly at all after a bad clip job probably a year and a half ago, but I am really interested in learning more about the school of thinking around free flight. Seems like a very interesting concept, can anyone provide me with some links to research further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Free flying a grey is really not recommended due to them being rather skittish and becoming alarmed easily. There are a few who have and do free fly their greys, but not without some pretty scary incidents. Only a professional could help you in actually preparing and helping you train your grey for free flying indoors before ever venturing out on the first outdoor flight. Here is a link to a person that does free fly her grey. : http://carlylusflightblog.com/ Raz has a ton of information of this site. Edited November 18, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Wow, I've never seen her site before. I can't believe she can free-fly Greys as she does. A few posts down she's describing the day her Grey outran a Peregrin. That's some crazy scary stuff. I guess the only bird that's safe to free fly would be a raptor of some sort, but then the Ravens will harass it. There's also the guy here who posts very infrequently about free flying his Grey in Asia. I can't think of his name right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I am wondering if you just want to have a 'flighted' parrot or one that will actually fly outside or simply to let the feathers grow out for limited flight indoors. Isaac has never been clipped and he flies like an ace inside. I originally was going to take him outside for some leashed flying but it was a bit difficult and I ended up giving up. I determined that he is pretty damned happy having the run of my house. LOL. Some ask me if they can really fly that well inside....the answer is a resounding yes. He has never made a flying mistake and he goes fast....knows how to air brake really well...and does banks and turns that continuously amaze me. LOL....when he flies to my shoulder after a good round, I can actually hear him panting in my ear....it's really cool. From what I have read of free flights, it is the ultimate risk. Quite simply, you might never see your friend again and the fate will be questionable. I understand the appeal of free flights and can see how it would be the ultimate act of resolving that final step of trust with freedom....but it is also the point at which a lot of owners find out that they are no match for freedom, and or something will inevitably go wrong and you two will be separated regardless of the intentions. Take care of the relationship you and your feathered friend develop by completely understanding the implications of all the actions you take for them. PS: If you really want to get some gravity for how wrong this can go....look up some YouTube videos about Tui and his affectionate owner who wanted to take the free flight step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'sBabies Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Not Greys but I enjoyed watching this video of Macaws. I would never take the chances they did but it was a beautiful sight to watch them flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Wow, I've never seen her site before. I can't believe she can free-fly Greys as she does. A few posts down she's describing the day her Grey outran a Peregrin. That's some crazy scary stuff. I guess the only bird that's safe to free fly would be a raptor of some sort, but then the Ravens will harass it. There's also the guy here who posts very infrequently about free flying his Grey in Asia. I can't think of his name right now.... Good post Stephen! Sterling: Raz has encountered some serious issues over the years. One time on the beach while free flying Carly Lu, Carly Lu decided she liked the way a guy looked sitting on a beach front property on an over looking deck. She flew to him and hung around. Then took off after him when he went in. During Raz's search for him, she wound up lost for 3 or 4 days. Finally after great efforts on Raz's part a local avian vet called her and informed her someone had called asking if they knew of a lost grey and whom their owner could be. There have been several hawk and other predatory bird encounters as well. Carly Lu was very fortunate in them. I personally do not even take my grey out on a leash (major fight getting it on, but still do) do to the very high hawk population here in the central valley of california. I had to parent hawks with 4 siblings living in the trees surrounding my home. I watched them daily try to snatch birds, squirrels etc. They are very persistent and good hunters and of course eventually get their prey. In regards the "Asian guy" That is shanlung. He did not free fly his grey. It was on a very Looooong line attached to a harness shanlung built himself. I guess you could consider that free flying, but he did have control over where his grey flew and how far. Edited November 18, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Here is said Tui video.....just don't let this be you....cause he loved his bird quite a bit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jocelyn Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Yeah its a tough call, freedom vs safety. Either way as I mentioned Romeo cant fly and I would need to do way more research before even starting indoor flight training but it sure sounds interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 We're going to have to stick to tethered townie bicycle riding. Not as glam as high-flying aerobatics but safer. Greycie's not really a fan yet but Toby the Caique loves townie riding. Feeds his ADD and will actually wear him out if we ride far enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 My three parrots and canary are all flighted. My canary and zon have never been clipped my greys were both clipped when I purchased them, although I asked that they not be. Breeders always think they know best. Ny parrots love to fly through my home and land on the different perches or cabinet tops in my rooms. As for flying outside, I know they would all take off and when they were tired land and then wonder where their dinner was and why I didn't come get them. Not a sight I wish to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerial.2000 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 marco goes outside on a harness with an extended leash if she wants to fly a small distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inara Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Too many predators where I live to even consider it. However, if I were to ever be in a position to free fly a bird, I would invest in and fit it with a telemetry device. I do love watching the videos of people who fly their Macaws, and other birds, and while I've been out countless hours with falcons and have seen up close and personal what it is like to have a bird return of its own accord, it gives me the willies (in the USA sense for you Brits!) to even contemplate what could be the fate of my little companion in this part of the country. But I'm not against it, and it must feel marvelous to the birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanlung Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Good post Stephen! In regards the "Asian guy" That is shanlung. He did not free fly his grey. It was on a very Looooong line attached to a harness shanlung built himself. I guess you could consider that free flying, but he did have control over where his grey flew and how far. Not correct. I have done free flights with Tinkerbell and Riamfada. Free flights with Tinkerbell were near the end of my first period with her and I had too much stuff to write with goodbyes to her and my beasties. The documentation was better with Riamfada. Read and decide if this is for you. To Shanlung - How to do Free Flight Outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 When we first got the Greybies, I was intrigued by the videos of free flighted birds. But the one time Mar took off it made my heart stop for a moment. This happened WHEN HE WAS STILL CLIPPED!! CLIPPED BIRDS *CAN FLY* IF SUFFICIENTLY STARTLED! Too many people learn this the hard way, and my husband was one of the stubborn ones. He brought him outside on his shoulder while I was setting things up for a garage sale. We had a mister going as it was extremely hot, and as he walked out of the garage, the mister his Mar and he took flight. I will never, ever forget the raw fear and adrenaline of that moment. I literally JUMPED into the air and caught his feet as he flew over my head, gaining altitude. I have no idea how I caught him or how I even managed to jump that high, but I tell you right now, the words I said to my husband were not kind at that moment. I didn't use any bad language but he knew I was NOT happy with him. Mar has an aviator harness that he wears. We've gone outside and done short flights for exercise. He flies all over in the house. But after hearing this story, I will never allow him to fly outdoors on his own. One of the guys who helped us move in met our birds and was telling us of some of his relatives that had an African Grey. He started the story with "I'm not sure I should tell you this, I can see you love birds and it might upset you, but..." He proceeded to tell us they had this Grey for years, and it was very attached to them. They let it fly outside and it would always fly right back to them. So one night, they let the bird fly, and it went to a perch then they called it to fly back. As it was flying back to them, a hawk swooped in and grabbed it. He said they were devastated. I made up my mind right then that I could not take that risk. We are planning a massive aviary. I want them to have room to fly. Not just hop from perch to perch, but room to really fly. We are going to build as big an aviary as we can afford for them, because they are birds and they need that, and we love them with all our hearts. But there is no way I could risk free flight and allowing a predator taking my babies from me, especially right in front of me. How horrible that must have been. I cannot even begin to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanlung Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Muse, If you have gone into my URL I left behind, you would have seen the strongest arguments against free flight. None who have not done free flights really know of the dangers, which often are worse than what they can conjure up in their imaginations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) I apologize Shanlung. In all the years I have been following your blogs, I had only seen the wonderful flights with Tinkerbell using that awesome harness setup with what appeared to be at least a 100 yards or more of strong yet light line attached. I still enjoy going back and viewing the blogs. Edited December 28, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Young and unaware, we let our first cockatoo outside and let him wander all the time. He would climb trees and and hang out while we did yard work. My guys now have large aviaries and only go out with their harness. The hawks here are very bad ( there are three that perch in my next door neighbors tree daily ) and even with the harness, one swooped over my shoulder to get Bongo, so even when you think they are safe a close eye needs to be on them and the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikachu Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Romeo cant fly at all after a bad clip job probably a year and a half ago, but I am really interested in learning more about the school of thinking around free flight. Seems like a very interesting concept, can anyone provide me with some links to research further? Jocelyn, I know this isn't really what you asked about, but wanted to share my experience… The one and only time my CAGs wings were trimmed was by the place where I got her before I brought her home. A year and a half later, she was still missing feathers. I mentioned this to my avian vet and he made a note of each flight feather on her wings & which was missing, so we could compare at a later date to see if they were growing back in. We were wanting to figure out in the mean time if she was breaking them off or if the person who clipped them did a poor job and basically cut them so far back that they couldn't grow back in. Since there was a chance that she was doing it, I wanted to give her a chance to use her wings and enjoy the feel of flying. In my mind, I thought that it might distract her from breaking them, if that was indeed what she was doing. (When we got her, she was able to fly, but lost the ability to do so.) I started working with her by first taking her out and holding her on my hand. I would say "fly" while slowly moving her downward so that she would flap her wings. Eventually, she would flap them every time I took her out and just said the word "fly". I also said "fly" every time she vigorously flapped her wings in the cage. Then, I started standing very close to the cage and enticing her with a favorite treat. Every time she would take off (very poorly I must say), I would say "fly". This served as a dual purpose. I was hoping that if she ever became flighted and accidentally got outside, maybe by giving her the command she would come to me. Anyways after the course of many months, slowly moving further away, giving her the command & rewarding her with a treat, I can happily say that not only has she regrown those feathers but she also flies to me on command and will fly back to her cage. (Now the problem is her flying to just anyone & landing on their heads!) Hope this helps! I know that it made me very sad to know she couldn't fly. I hope that yours regains his ability as well. (Note: In this post, I am just describing how I helped my CAG learn to fly again. I wasn't trying to teach her free flying and recall in the outdoors.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jocelyn Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Romeo is starting to flutter a bit now and can stay airborn for a short period of time, but he crashes near constantly and his poor tail feathers are busted up and his wing feather ocassionally get all messed up too but he seems to take care of them him self. Wish there was some way of stopping his feathers from getting broken but I guess its no different then bumbs and bruises when we learn to walk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanlung Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 danmcq, I wrote hell of a lot. Not expected that you read all of them. And even then, not all were written. I brought Tink and Riam out almost on daily basis. Even as much as I like to report, I am laid back and plain lazy. murfchck, Predators are real. Only those who are companions can take their birdies out. They treat their birdies as equal and therefore watch them carefully as to their emotions and can rely on their better sight and senses to tell of raptors Guarding against raptors -Dangers of Flying outside on a Harness? Risk? http://shanlung.livejournal.com/68409.html Something I wrote many years ago stood the test of time I think. You read and decide. Romeo is starting to flutter a bit now and can stay airborn for a short period of time, but he crashes near constantly and his poor tail feathers are busted up and his wing feather ocassionally get all messed up too but he seems to take care of them him self. Wish there was some way of stopping his feathers from getting broken but I guess its no different then bumbs and bruises when we learn to walk... The sight of crashing of birdies trying to fledge in the home/apartment can be very frightening. Likely to the the cause of much of the clipping of wings. Let me explain this process via a posting of an old posting. Even if thats done 8 years or so ago, you decide if that is valid or not still 888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 Written in about end March 2007 More thoughts on wing clipping shanlung: More thoughts on wing clipping The extract aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Dave wrote: Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horizontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down. Hi Dave, In an ideal world, what you say above may be right. The other extreme will be extremely severe clipping of wings. When I was in Riyadh and in a parrot shop, this grey jumped off the top of cage about 5 feet from ground. The sound of him hitting down, the spray of blood around him, and the screaming of that poor guy hurt me crazy. I do not wish ever to have another keel bone broken even if not in front of me. People clipped for a few key reasons. 1. They had been conditioned to that because of what they read or were told. This seemed to be peculiarly American. Tinkerbell wings were so nearly clipped by me at the beginning as the books I read all recommended that (all American books) as well as forums in 2002 when I first had Tinkerbell. I was lucky enough to bought a British parrot mag to give me second thoughts. 2. The sight of initial flights, the crashing into walls was extremely frightening and I thought my precious Tink was crazy in trying to fly through walls while I stumbled about chasing her with a pillow to cushion her falls after hitting the wall. Once again, I so nearly reached for that scissors and Tink the flyig grey of Taiwan so nearly did not exist. But that british mag persuaded me to let that continue for a few more days. She then found her flying skills to turn, slow, hover and stopped banging into walls. Folks, this episode is inevitable. Your birds may be natural fliers, but even so, they MUST develop their muscles , flying skills and sense of balance. But at this early stage, their speed will be very slow(even if it appeared fast to you) and chances of harm to them will be there but not that much. You can minimise this by letting them fledge in a small room, with curtains or rope nets around the walls for them to fly to and cling too. Or you can run around like me with a cushion. If you see a human toddler trying to walk and falling down, will you have fear for his/her safety and not ever let him discover balance and walk? Will you have him/her crawl for the rest of their life because you are afraid to see them fall? This is same as your choice for your bird. 3 By clipping wings and thinking thus the clipped bird will never fly away. I need not repeat my earlier postings of clipped birds that flown away. In what Dave said , that is true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we live in the real world. But most people then went on to extrapolate that then, their bird will never be able to fly away. That is where I draw that line. So after you got that 'perfect clip' and your parrot then fly about 8 feet and not gaining height. But again, have that clip been tested under worse case condition? Such as a sudden blast of air horn , or a strange hat thrust in front to see if that parrot cannot gain height in a spook situation? Can you bear to do a sudden spook, or allow others to do that to your parrot? To see if that clipped wings hold good in spook conditions? And with Murphy at your elbows, how about throwing in that gust of wind at the same time? Can you ever guarantee such conditions will never ever occur to you? People had thought so. Their parrot paid heavier price than they did. Your choice again to see if you can beat those odds. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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