Need some Advice

[kave70]

As I watch Sam's behavior, I have a sneaking suspicion that perhaps he was part of a breeding pair. Could I be wrong? Sure.... but since I don't know much about breeding behaviors, I thought I would ask for some advice.

 

I'm looking for articles, info, advice... anything to help me better understand Sam.

Does anyone have any links to share that might talk about rehabbing/understanding a grey that has had limited human contact.

 

I'd really appreciate any help. I'm trying to better understand Sam and what makes him tick.

 

Karen (and Sam)

[Greywings]

Can you describe the behaviors that are making you come to this conclusion? It might help in referring you in the right direction.

[kave70]

Let's see if I can put this all together so that it makes sense:

You know we have had Sam 1 1/2 years- still very little want for human contact, except to nuzzle my husband. He doesn't even want to sit, or get pet, or interact- he just wants to nuzzle his hand. I may be wrong, but I notice when he is out with my husband he bangs his beak a lot on different surfaces. I don't know if this is just him, or a mating behavior. I have no experience in the matter. He shakes ( I know this can be common) constantly and ANY change is really difficult to him. Remember when I tried to show him an old cage- he didn't stop screaming until I covered it.

His likes for toys are rare- will forrage, but that's it.

He still screams obsessively- we've worked on it and have lessened it, but I don't hold out hopes for extinguishing it.

He became complete enamoured and obsessed with the top cubby of the armoir. He immediately started digging and was refused to leave. We attempted to replicated any sort of digging/box, towels, for him in his cage and out of his cage but he really wasn't interested. Show him the dark cubby and he's adamant that it belongs to him, and him only.(As soon as we noticed the issue, we stopped bringing him into the room where the armoir is)

 

He's OK around other birds- never the aggressor. He is usually watchful, but dis-interested in any contact. He has been socialized with a CAG male and we have the same reaction. He met a female CAG and the reaction was quite different. He was actually interested. He kept inching closer (she was a pretty thing ;-) ), and was making beak to beak contact and attempting to nuzzle. He was banging his beak on the perch, like he does for my husband.

 

We bought him a stainless steel toy - I continue to try different toys, hoping to find something to interest him. It's a rectangular plate with bells hanging from it. This has become a best friend.... but all he does is nuzzle his reflection in the plate and makes clicking sounds and bangs his beak on the perch. I'm not even sure if I should let it stay in there or if I'm making it worse by letting him have it. He will hang upside down and almost attack it, then turn around and nuzzle and make vocalizations to it. We did try taking it out and he kept screaming (days) so I put it back in. I take it out at bed time, but I would love to know if someone thinks this is helping or hurting.... definitely don't want to torture poor Sam.

 

My conclusion is just a hunch- I've been really watching him to try and find a way to help him live a happier existance. He never quite seems happy and that is concerning to me. I was hoping to find some articles/info so that I may find a way to give him what he needs.

We love him dearly, and we are not expecting more of him- I just want to GIVE more to him.

I am sure I'm missing important parts- If I think of more, I'll come back and add more infor.

Thanks for any insight

Karen and Sam

Edited October 1, 2012 by kave70
add more info

[Greywings]

It does sound like hubby has been selected as a person to bond with, he may just be a serious bird but I know some of our more experienced with breeder bird folks will be along soon.

[Dave007]

Let's see if I can put this all together so that it makes sense:

You know we have had Sam 1 1/2 years- still very little want for human contact, except to nuzzle my husband. He doesn't even want to sit, or get pet, or interact- he just wants to nuzzle his hand. I may be wrong, but I notice when he is out with my husband he bangs his beak a lot on different surfaces. I don't know if this is just him, or a mating behavior. I have no experience in the matter. He shakes ( I know this can be common) constantly and ANY change is really difficult to him. Remember when I tried to show him an old cage- he didn't stop screaming until I covered it.

His likes for toys are rare- will forrage, but that's it.

He still screams obsessively- we've worked on it and have lessened it, but I don't hold out hopes for extinguishing it.

He became complete enamoured and obsessed with the top cubby of the armoir. He immediately started digging and was refused to leave. We attempted to replicated any sort of digging/box, towels, for him in his cage and out of his cage but he really wasn't interested. Show him the dark cubby and he's adamant that it belongs to him, and him only.(As soon as we noticed the issue, we stopped bringing him into the room where the armoir is)

 

He's OK around other birds- never the aggressor. He is usually watchful, but dis-interested in any contact. He has been socialized with a CAG male and we have the same reaction. He met a female CAG and the reaction was quite different. He was actually interested. He kept inching closer (she was a pretty thing ;-) ), and was making beak to beak contact and attempting to nuzzle. He was banging his beak on the perch, like he does for my husband.

 

We bought him a stainless steel toy - I continue to try different toys, hoping to find something to interest him. It's a rectangular plate with bells hanging from it. This has become a best friend.... but all he does is nuzzle his reflection in the plate and makes clicking sounds and bangs his beak on the perch. I'm not even sure if I should let it stay in there or if I'm making it worse by letting him have it. He will hang upside down and almost attack it, then turn around and nuzzle and make vocalizations to it. We did try taking it out and he kept screaming (days) so I put it back in. I take it out at bed time, but I would love to know if someone thinks this is helping or hurting.... definitely don't want to torture poor Sam.

 

My conclusion is just a hunch- I've been really watching him to try and find a way to help him live a happier existance. He never quite seems happy and that is concerning to me. I was hoping to find some articles/info so that I may find a way to give him what he needs.

We love him dearly, and we are not expecting more of him- I just want to GIVE more to him.

I am sure I'm missing important parts- If I think of more, I'll come back and add more infor.

Thanks for any insight

Karen and Sam

 

How old is your bird?

So far, 95% of what you say that he does has nothing to do with him being a previous breeder grey. What you're mentioning above all has to do with personality, past baggage, ingrained habits and likes and dislikes, developemental relationships from the past. The questions abovecan be answereed but you need to know the huge differences between breeder and pet greys

[Sarasota]

None of this sounds too strange to me - especially from an older (don't know the age), rehomed grey. Patience is the key here. Ditto on what Dave wrote above. But, to me, he doesn't sound anything like a breeder (which can rarely ever completely be made into pets - it happens, but it's not common).

 

I'm interested in what you call "screaming" and what you do when he is doing it. Some greys are just naturally louder than others and may have some annoying sounds (like a smoke alarm going off, etc.) Growling and attention getting screams can be extinguished. I promise. But it's never an overnight process and takes very consistent behavior on the owner's part.

 

You sound like you are wonderful, caring parents! Time, patience, time and more time!

[kave70]

How old is your bird?

So far, 95% of what you say that he does has nothing to do with him being a previous breeder grey. What you're mentioning above all has to do with personality, past baggage, ingrained habits and likes and dislikes, developemental relationships from the past. The questions abovecan be answereed but you need to know the huge differences between breeder and pet greys

 

That is exactly what I'm trying to find out- the differences between breeder and pet greys. I was looking for articles on this specific information.

We have no clue how old Sam is, or his past- he was abandoned with several other animals in a Vet's parking lot and we've had him a year and a half now.

In short, I feel like I'm not giving him enough to be happy and was really hoping for some additional information to perhaps better his life.

I could very well be wrong- I'm just trying to find a way to enrich his life. I will gladly take any suggestions/advice.

Thanks!

Karen and Sam

[Sarasota]

If there is a bird mart in your area...try and check it out. Sometimes a breeder will be offered for sale. For the most part (and I hate to generalize), they are very fearful of human contact, will back away and growl and lunge if you get too close.

 

I think you are looking for "breeding behavior" rather than what a Breeder is like. Do I have that right?

 

There are SO many ways to offer enrichment. I don't know what your set up is, diet, situation. There's so much information and ideas. Do you know about the Parrot Enrichment books? They are free online and a wonderful place to start: http://www.parrotenrichment.com/books.html The site is full of great ideas.

[Dave007]

That is exactly what I'm trying to find out- the differences between breeder and pet greys. I was looking for articles on this specific information.

We have no clue how old Sam is, or his past- he was abandoned with several other animals in a Vet's parking lot and we've had him a year and a half now.

In short, I feel like I'm not giving him enough to be happy and was really hoping for some additional information to perhaps better his life.

I could very well be wrong- I'm just trying to find a way to enrich his life. I will gladly take any suggestions/advice.

Thanks!

Karen and Sam

 

Ok

1---male and female breeders usually don't care for people whether they're male or female. They're usually left alone with each other. They usually develop a permanent bond with their mate at a young age and that bonding has nothing to do with people. Many times breeders show aggression towrds people. A relationship with breeders is usually very minimal. They will only tolerate people as litle as possible. The people they do tolerate are people who feed them, clean cages, supply treats, special environments. I have breeders and the only people they'll put up with is my wife and me.

2---A breeder grey who is introduced to a pet grey will usually try to harm that pet grey because the pet grey has already developed a bond with people and breeders DO know that allegiance is split. Breeders need complete devotion from the other bird. A pet grey doesn't have the same mentality as a breeder grey. Breeders aren't considered pets. When breeder greys are sold, it's usually pairs that are for sale.

3-- a person who adopts an adult bird usually has the intention(hoping) of making that adult bird into a sweet bird that a grey IS UP TO A POINT. Actually, a pet grey who becomes an adult grey becomes a very aloof bird who doesn't need or want as much attention as other species. That's simply a grey trait. As an adult they're very different that the much younger grey hence the biting, lack of interest in wanting to get physically invovled with the owner, constant staring into space for long periods of time while not doing anything. Many people are upset when that young pet grey becomes an adult grey becuse of the personality change. People mistake what they're seeing and start thinking that they did something wrong to cause that type of behavior but it's untrue As a grey ages, they lose that cuddliness that .was once present. People get upset about that.

Screaming---some birds will scream or squawk or cackle or whistle or talk or not say anything or will imitate things obsessively. That may have to do with the past and you'll never know why until you meet the previous owner. Again, not a breeder grey's trait. Some breeders will do the same thing although if a breeder is left alone with the mate, they're pretty quiet until people annoy them.

Obsession with things and places and items doesn't neccessarily mean it's breeding activity. A breeder will do those types of things during mating cycles especially if the bird has been with it's mate. The magic word here is obsession.

****He's OK around other birds- never the aggressor***

Many parrots are not as aggressive with other species as much as they are with their own kind. Simply go outside and watch the titmice or the chickadees or sparrows or wrens or woodpeckers or the gold finches. Each will constantly fight with their own kind but never another species. The most aggressive are the hummingbirds with each other. Greys are wild animals just like those outside and will remain that way until they die.

Playthings----the species called MAN is the one that invented loads of different toys for the birds without ever asking the birds whether they like them. People have paid large amounts of money on toys only to have those toys wind up in a box that's in a closet. Greys will play with unconventional items that don't have to be purchased. Take the metal-----a grey will love to have a heavy duy bell that he can play with and stage very nasty mock fights with and then snuggle up to it just as if it was it's best friend.Screaming and squawking usually acconmpany those fights. Removing that item would be a cruel thing to do just because it's the focus of his attention. Wanna give a grey something he likes> Give a plain block of wood that can hang in a cage. Many greys will spend hours chewing and chewing it. That makes them happy.

Wanna enrich or better his life? Simply treat him as you would any other bird in your house. He seems to like it. Also, treat him like an adult bird who is very set in his ways. You need to live with his baggage. That's what you signed on for when taking in an adult bird that has unknown history.

Making him happier isn't difficult---more treats, freedom from a cage, petting, interaction, talking to him etc etc etc.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Dave007

[kave70]

Dave,

Thank you SO MUCH for your reply. This is precisely the information I was looking for!

We will continue on our path with Sam. He is deeply loved and an important part of our family.

I have printed your reply and posted it on the fridge, for everyone in our house to see.

 

I feel so much better knowing that we're doing right by him. Thank you again!

Karen and Sam

[katana600]

Karen, we are on much the same path with Gilbert as you have been with Sam, except Gilbert is very quiet. It isn't so much I am aiming for a "happy" bird as in joyful, bouncing, exuberant or playful. I am striving more to see him be able to relax and not just huddle on one perch shivering with nerves. Slowly, slowly that is changing and he is peeling away layers of fear like the skin from an onion. I believe the day will come when he is mostly showing us fresh new layers that are untainted by the baggage of his past.

[kave70]

Karen, we are on much the same path with Gilbert as you have been with Sam, except Gilbert is very quiet. It isn't so much I am aiming for a "happy" bird as in joyful, bouncing, exuberant or playful. I am striving more to see him be able to relax and not just huddle on one perch shivering with nerves. Slowly, slowly that is changing and he is peeling away layers of fear like the skin from an onion. I believe the day will come when he is mostly showing us fresh new layers that are untainted by the baggage of his past.

 

Thank you, Katana. I think your onion analagy is quite fitting. I have plenty of patience though and look forward to the day it seems like we're peeling away :-)

 

Karen and Sam

[katana600]

The most difficult task I have had to overcome with Gilbert is that I want to "DO" something to make a difference to him. With his particular circumstances and personality, what I have learned is less is more. It has been especially hard to just back off and let him find his own way. He is slowly making his way to finding his inner strength and learning he can make his own decisions. As we reach milestones together, his pace is picking up a little and he is trying something new every week. I guess an onion may have a new meaning when we get to the tender layers and it makes my eyes water, in a good way. LOL. Maybe better to think of him as a strong palm tree, growing new fronds and dropping the lower ones that are no longer productive and necessary for him. It just changes day by day in such small almost imperceptible ways. I learn so much from him. I don't believe the word subtle was in my vocabulary until our time with Gilbert.