BeeFernandez22 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 In my opinion, an aviator harness would be a much better option. I've seen a number of members take their fids harnesses w/them while they were visiting them during weaning. Congrats on the new baby, btw!! Thank you!!! Medium on the harness you guys think? I wish I would have taken it during my visits... too late now How soon do you think I can start testing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Dave and Janet have given good food for thought. As Dave explained so well, it is meant to enable you to easily take your bird with you outside, not to enable flight like the aviator. They are intended for completely different purposes. I have the aviator and it serves it's purpose well, except when Dayo chews the cord in two... or just won't lt us put it on most the time. I have purchased and have this Tether on it's way. Will get photos and comment once it has been tried out a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thank you!!! Medium on the harness you guys think? I wish I would have taken it during my visits... too late now How soon do you think I can start testing it? If you are referring to the Aviator harness...check the weights before you buy. They do seem to run a bit big. I bought the small for my Amazon and it is PLENTY big. Good luck! We are working with the aviator also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) As Dave and Dan point out - I don't think this is intended to be a flight harness (notice there is no reference in the video to flight, or examples of flight). From what I can tell, it's designed for the bird to wear while on your shoulder, perch, etc. Parrots, like all flighted birds (leave out ostrich, penguins, emus) have hollow bones. However, the legs of flighted birds are the heaviest in the body - it sort of forms a center of gravity in flight, landing, etc. So, I see a few problems with this product: If the bird startles while wearing the tether, its center of gravity is thrown (the clasps have to add a certain weight to the bird), and it's likely to put the bird off balance. The bird could injure itself physically and, in some cases, mentally and emotionally. A bird makes a quick connection between see scary object, try to flee and crash to ground, don't allow things near legs in the future. It's a very simplistic scenario, but sometimes it's better to stay on the side of caution. The other issue is that it could be an aversive. We can only know that by examining your bird's behavior. I know some birds that might not mind it, and other birds that would do anything to avoid their legs being touched. The birds shown in his video are generally motionless. That could be (can't know for sure) because the tether is very inhibiting. Dan, I look forward to hearing about how it works. Video! Video! Edited August 10, 2012 by Sarasota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstPenguin Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I think the problem is, sure people will buy it and try it out and report back yeah bird doesn't mind it, it works great. That doesn't prove that it's safe when your bird gets startled attempts to take off. Or what will happen to their ankles and feet if they fly full speed in the opposite direction. Also I noticed that the bird in the video had two leg bands on. Who has two leg bands on their bird? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I didn't realize how much this product bothered me until I found myself thinking about it again for like the hundredth time this afternoon. The thought of one of these things on a bird I "know" is starting to unsettle my stomach a little. I've helped design some of the cable applications for the automotive industry, the Olympic rowing venue in Atlanta & many other innovative uses of cable for many more yrs than I'm going to admit. I've seen too often the result of people who think they understand how it works & the, call it "interesting" consequences. Think back to the last time you saw some poor Smoe dangling 20 stories high off his window washing scaffold. Much more often than not, it was the cable that was the story behind the story. If this is aircraft cable, I think it has too much weight, resistance & orientation of it's own for this application. That's going to become worse w/use & the fittings ill-advised for other reasons. I think the design of this rig is based on bad math & the physics look basically flawed. There was a time when King's Cages was a name I respected. Back when, they were American made. Then, they moved their manufacturing to Europe. But ok, still good quality. Now their product comes from the same plants in China as all the rest. But they're still trading on their reputation from bygone days when they deserve no more credibility now than anybody else, IMO. There have been so many catastrophic examples of inexcusable negligence in the pet trade, let alone human related products. Most recently the Kaytee formula that's harmed how many fids? And they have no intention of making restitution...? As if anyone could repay me for having harmed one of my birds under these circumstances! The most recent Mazuri recalls, etc, etc. Aside from my personal feelings about this, the science says this is a high risk product. And the likelihood that the seller will be accountable in the event of failure is realisticly slim to none. There's apparently no a credible vet(s) or parrot behaviorist(s) offering their seal of approval here. Some practical information from testing in the real world might have been nice before it hit the market if nothing else. I'm sorry for the rant. I could be dead wrong & I'll happily apologize a year from now & be very, very happy to do it. But I'm wishing everyone here, at least, would just wait until the thing has been on the market for 6 or 7 months to see if the feedback from real life proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I am not going to try this product on my bird, if Dan and Janet want to try it then that is their business, I just hope it doesn't harm the birds for I know both would feel very sad if one of their birds got hurt by it, no guinea pig here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I would LOVE a product that I can walk around the block with Kiki on my shoulder, as she loves to be outside. Aviator harness, she hates. It wouldn't work for a walk, as she can get startled and fly into an incoming car.If someone could discover a " center of gravity" leash, which is their chest, that would be awesome! I am shopping for college right now. Found a pair of sneakers by " Nike", that were so light, I told Sean the other shoe was missing! LOL! It was there in the box. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstPenguin Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 There's always this. http://www.celltei.com/birdiepouch.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I did talk to a sales rep when I ordered this product. This is a new product. They do not recommend it for older unhandled birds or if you cannot handle your bird's legs. This is not for everyone, I agree. I think Ana Grey would be a perfect "guinea pig". She is fearless and trusting and I'm excited to try. Will report back after we give it an honest shot or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Lady Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I think I will wait for awhile and read the reviews on this new invention and besides the fact I just bought Brandi a brand new flight suit and let me say she isn't fond of it , Rocky on the other hand has no problem getting in to his I think he has it figured out flight suit means out doors and he loves to go outdside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I wouldn't use this, not in a million years....it doesn't exactly look safe, too many gadgets, clips, latches,ect to get hung up in. Can you imgie a leg and added to that? My bird would chew themselves free and fight to get it off. If you want to take your bird outside, it s much safer in an adventure pack in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw64 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I'm a new african grey owner and worried about harness but this thing looks terrible to me and can see damage to legs happening, we are working with harness slowly but my alfie still gets to see the sun by the use of a smaller cage which I can use when we are in the garden without the worry of him taking flight, its also getting him used to different sights and sounds, at present my son is making me a flight part on the side of our shed which will give him the chance to be outside with us with a bit more freedom but without the worry of him taking off, I understand it must be nice to take your bird out to the park with you and to allow them to fly but its still restricted flight? and you must make sure they are away from trees ect or there is the chance of them becoming tangled, so as much as I know we all want to provide as much space and freedom as possible for our birds we also have a duty of care, I take my dog to the park off his lead he returns when called which does not by any means mean its fool proof but I will never be trying this with alfie as much as it would be great for him to fly free, they are not dogs, sorry if this upsets anyone its not ment to guess it just rattled me a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 This won't work for Kiki or Sophie either. I need a leash around their chest. Lightweight. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooman Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 looks very interesting. is it for me? no. curious though how it works out. I agree hawks etc have much stronger feet. some can crush preys bones. glad my Zuri can't haha. does seem kinda heavy handed. tried the aviator unfortunately probably my flat never worked out more stress then it was worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well as promised, I am reporting on my adventure with the Safety Leash and my TAG, Ana Grey. As you all will remember, I felt that Ana Grey would be good "guinea pig" as she is fearless and trusts me. The size leash I purchased was medium. The first thing I did after opening the package was weigh the leash, 110 g. I then weighed Ana Grey, 298 g. I was leery of the weight difference but I promised to give this leash a try so I did. The latches were difficult for me to open and close as they are very strong. I called a neighbor lad over to give me a hand. Jordan has a parrot and my parrots trust him. Also Jordan is not afraid of a parrot bite (Jordan is 6'5"). Right off, Jordan didn't like the Safety Leash but I did promise to give it a good college try so.... I held Ana Grey as she did not like the looks of the contraption at all and would not stay put (she is fully flighted). Jordan put the latches on Ana Grey's legs. Once the gadget was on, I held Ana Grey and soothed her until I thought she would act calmly. When I let Ana Grey free, she immediately tried to get out of the safety leash by biting at it and then when that didn't work she flew off. Oh yes, as heavy as the leash was, she got lift and when she landed, she immediately toppled over, stumbled around and could not stand up. I immediately removed the "safety" leash and unshackled my sweet grey. There was too much weight for my TAG. I am sure that if Ana Grey tried to sit on my shoulder in this leash, the weight and pull of the leash would tire her easily and would drag her off my shoulder in no time. As you know I was really excited to try this leash out but as soon as I opened the package and felt its weight, I was truly disappointed. Ana Grey was shackled just like the prisoners in the old movies with leg chains. Ana Grey was terrified and acted accordingly. The leash weighed her down. I will not try this device again as it is not acceptable to me for my parrots. On a good note, Ana Grey has forgiven me for this trial and error. Perhaps Dan will have better results with Dayo then I did with Ana Grey. ### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hmmmm. That was my big fear - the weight would throw off the bird's balance. Let's see what happens with Dave's birds. I wonder if it will be any different on an older, heavier bird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thanks for the up date and your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstPenguin Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Poor Anna Grey. I think you highlighted one of the major flaws of this device. If your bird were perfectly calm the first time you used it, it might be ok. However, this is a nervous prey animal, the chances of that are pretty slim, and the chances they will never panic while hooked into these shackles is further. It's funny you mentioned the chain gangs in the old movies that was my first thought when I saw it. Thank you for doing such a thorough investigation. The weight comparison really drove it home and confirmed what I suspected. This gadget is nothing but heavy off the shelf parts. something truly designed for birds would not look like this. In fact I have one of those heavy rock n roll looking chain wallet that the attachment on the other end looks EXACTLY like the clasp used for this, just scaled one way or the other. Sounds like this has a heavier spring. Marc Marone and Richard King are a bag of cheap chinese tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyparrot Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thanks for your report Luvparrots. You have confirmed my fears about this device. Please tell Anna Grey we are all very grateful to her for her trouble. Steve n Misty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thanks Janet for being the guinea pig with this contraption, just as I feared it was too heavy for a grey, guess we will have to wait for Dan's input with his experience with it but our fears have been confirmed so in my opinion no one else should waste their money on this product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeFernandez22 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 So sorry for sweet Ana Grey Thank you for testing it out for us. I was thinking about one for Maverick but now I most definitely will not be attempting it. He is only about 448g so I know there is no way he would be able to handle it! Hopefully he takes to the Aviator harness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Thanks for your detailed post Janet. I am sorry to hear it did not work out well for you and Ana Grey. I've been busy restoring files, at work (home) and have just been taking it slow in introducing this device to Dayo. I followed a very SLOW process in introducing him to the aviator as well over weeks and once I got it fully on him he started freaking out and biting at the aviator as well the first several times, which I swiftly took off him so he did not have a bad association with it after weeks. I am taking the same methodology with this tether device and fully expect the first time I leave it fully on him, that he will start fighting with it. The weight of this does not concern me, because it is intended to slow down the bird so they cannot fly off. It is intended only for the safe ability of taking your bird outside with you. It is not intended for any type of flight like the aviator's light weight extensions so they can truly fly 10 to 30 feet with the correct setup. It will be weeks before I can give an honest report on this new tether. Dayo of course will not have a weight problem with this as severe as ana grey did because he is fully 200 grams heavier and much bigger than ana grey. I am just letting im beak it, snap on one leg clip, leave for 10 to 30 seconds while he beaks and explores it and then take it back off. With most new items and greys, they need to be introduced slowly until a level of trust and comfort is developed. So, just wait folks and in several weeks I will posts our experience and findings with this. Edited August 16, 2012 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeFernandez22 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I followed a very SLOW process in introducing him to the aviator as well over weeks and once I got it fully on him he started freaking out and biting at the aviator as well the first several times, which I swiftly took off him so he did not have a bad association with it after weeks. Dan- I am buying an Aviator harness for Maverick this weekend and I would love to hear how you introduced Dayo to it. I really want it to be a positive experience for him. Please feel free to PM me so as not to interrupt this thread Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Dan- I am buying an Aviator harness for Maverick this weekend and I would love to hear how you introduced Dayo to it. I really want it to be a positive experience for him. Please feel free to PM me so as not to interrupt this thread Thanks!! Very easy to put on Also, instructions are on package Loads of people use them. No special instructionas required http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=aviator+harness+video&mid=73644DF35B9D83624BF873644DF35B9D83624BF8&view=detail&FO Hopefully, you rbird is very young. Adult birds don't take to a harness very well. That's where peoplr have more difficulty putting it on. Edited August 16, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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