Grey versus human development - Anthropomorphism

[danmcq]

A new interesting study that even though it compares to a human childs age 3 of reasoning, I thought I would share it. You cannot fool a Grey. Once again, the grey proves it has reasoning abilities all of it's own..... What did the researchers expect to find??

 

Enjoy: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57489084/parrots-can-reason-like-3-year-old-kids/

[JeffNOK]

My CAG Gracie is still a baby (One year old and two weeks). I do see some cognitive ability in her. She has only met my parents' Toy Fox Terrier a few times, but she knows his name and barks just like him. She definately associates his name with his bark. When I say "Barkley" she repeats "Barkley--growl..ruff ruff ruff." I never do the bark--she adds it herself. I think she knows who Barkley is and what sound he makes. It isn't random, and it wasn't trained. As far as mirrors, I'm not sure what she thinks. There is a mirror near her cage and she often is attracted to it. Whenever she is looking in the mirror, I always say, "That's Gracie in the mirror. Then I go to the mirror so she can see me and my reflection. Then I point at my reflection and say "That's daddy in the mirror". If she doesn't get it fully now, I think she will one day.

Edited August 8, 2012 by JeffNOK

[Inara]

<snip> ...I prefer to think of my birds as "intelligent non-english speaking terrestrial aliens" than the equivalent of a 6 year old human

 

I've often said nearly the exact same words. They are an alien (to us) species, and while we may be able to share some of the same spoken words we cannot expect them to be 'human' any more than we can be 'bird.' It is delightful, when we have shared language breakthroughs with one another, like Alex and "cork nut", Koko (the gorilla) and some of her idiosyncratic signed words, and Athena and "T-bird." Inversely, when we are able to read our companions' non-verbal signals and/or chirps and other native to them sounds, and offer (what would be to them) an appropriate reaction/response, they are often just as delighted, and therein is where the companionship bonds are formed that go beyond food reinforcement.

 

Excellent thread.

[danmcq]

Inversely, when we are able to read our companions' non-verbal signals and/or chirps and other native to them sounds, and offer (what would be to them) an appropriate reaction/response, they are often just as delighted, and therein is where the companionship bonds are formed that go beyond food reinforcement.

 

Excellent thread.

 

How very true! When we learn Parrotese, they respond and appreciate it and we gain interaction on a completely different level when that occurs.

[Cosmos_Friend]

I too have been very interested in a Grey's level of intelligence. I like what Sarasota said in one post, "I can't help but wonder if our own birds are frustrated by our limited ability to read their signals and body language, and thwarted by their inability to use full human language with us to communicate!" I often get that "feel" myself with Cosmo. I'd like to reiterate something that I included in one of my posts a while back. A couple of years ago, I bought Cosmo a foraging toy called "Tiki Takeout" It was a small plastic hut that came with wooden dowels of different diameters. The front of the hut was open for you to put a treat inside. On the bottom of the hut was a "secret" door that was secured by a dime screw. After placing the treat in the hut, you'd slide 4 wooden dowels through holes that were accessible by removing the "secret" door and were held in place by the door when it was reattached and screwed down. The idea was, your parrot would see the treat through the dowels, and begin gnawing through them to eventually get to the treat. I set this up in the kitchen, out of Cosmo's sight (and not for any particular reason except that's where my change was for me to get a dime to open the bottom door). I hung the toy in his cage, Cosmo went cautiously and looked it over. He then began to chew on one of the dowels then suddenly stopped. He looked at the hut up and down, front and back and side to side, then he grabbed it and flipped it over. He looked at the bottom of the hut for a few seconds, then took his beak and turned the dime screw, unlocking the "secret" door. He let go of the hut, now right-side up and the dowels and treat fell to the bottom of his cage... he climbed down to retrieve the treat and that was the end the "gnawing through dowels" concept! It took him no more than 2 minutes to figure out that the treat (which was a shelled walnut) had to be put in there somehow. Hard to believe but true! I try not to equate a Greys intelligence to a humans, however I think they have an intelligence that we'll probably never fully understand.

 

~Rick

[Timbersmom]

LOL That is exactly what Timber did! It took me much longer to assemble the hut and put it in the cage than for him to remove the screw and get the goodies. Ha.

[danmcq]

"I try not to equate a Greys intelligence to a humans, however I think they have an intelligence that we'll probably never fully understand."

 

Well said Rick. The tiki hut is a perfect example. Thanks for sharing it.

[Inara]

Rick, very cool example of sizing up a situation and going for the most elegant solution.

[Mistyparrot]

"I try not to equate a Greys intelligence to a humans, however I think they have an intelligence that we'll probably never fully understand."

 

I suspect Misty would say, in English translation "I try not to equate a Humans intelligence to an African Greys because I think they have an intelligence that us Greys probably will never fully understand":cool:

 

I suspect this because of the way Misty looks at me sometimes!

 

Steve n Misty

[Luvparrots]

I believe our greys look at us and say, "Some day they will understand. Perhaps even be able to fly.... snicker."

[Cosmos_Friend]

LOL That is exactly what Timber did! It took me much longer to assemble the hut and put it in the cage than for him to remove the screw and get the goodies. Ha.

 

I know! I ended up giving the hut to a friend for their parrot because Cosmo had no use for it anymore.

[Timbersmom]

Well Timber enjoyed removing the screw, but I got tired of fishing the dowels out of the cage papers, washing everything and giving him his 10 seconds of fun again! I'm a bbbbbad parront

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

LOVE these stories! Nancy

[Muse]

I think humans are probably the most arrogant species alive, trying to measure all creatures by our standards. I truly think Greys (and other birds) have much more intelligence than most humans suspect. In fact, most animals are more intelligent than we give them credit for AND they manage to be intelligent as well as retaining instincts that most humans have forsaken in our mad rush to see how 'civilized' we can become.

 

One thing I have learned now that I have a human-raised toddler and a wild-caught adult is how different they approach learning. I teach Megan. She waits for my lead. Peck teaches me. He does not wait to see what I am going to do, he does something, observes my reaction, then tailors his behaviors in an attempt to get the desired results. He's not learning my words. He is teaching me his -whether they be contact call whistling, his 'sign language' for requesting his favorite foods, or imitating sounds he associates or thinks I will associate with what he wants. My approach at interacting with him is far different than all of our other birds.

 

Megan is the English speaker. She has an enormous vocabulary and has no hesitation in using it to order us to fit her whims. She is also manipulative. Like the kids at bedtime, *every* time I say I am going somewhere as I am putting her in her cage, she starts with "Want some water." Even when I just GAVE her water. She could have a full, fresh bottle AND a bowl of fresh water with ice chips in it, and she will STILL ask for water until I produce a bowl of it. And she very well knows what water is. She will see me taking the other birds' water bottles out to change them and say "Want some water?"

 

Perhaps people try to relegate the birds to the level of human children because that is normally where their language abilities appear to be. But what human child can solve complex problems like a Grey can? And remember, in the wild when a Grey fledges, they are able to live on their own. Our off-spring don't do that until they are much older (and even then that does not guarantee they will remain on their own). And Greys, just about from the time they hatch, understand the concept of object permanence - something human children do not catch on to for several years.

 

I agree with the posters who have referred to them as 'aliens' - beings from another country that are trying to learn the language and integrate themselves into our culture. They continue to amaze me every single day. I think this is why we can bond so strongly to them.

[Inara]

Muse, very well stated. My wild caught 'zon and CAG were my wonderful teachers. HRH Inara is now reaping the benefits.

[danmcq]

Greyt post Muse. One thing though, when a grey fledges, it only means they can fly and keep up with their parents and flock. They are no where near able to survive on their own yet. There are a gazillion things they must learn during those first years. Most do not venture off from their parents until around two years old, yet they stay close. At sexual maturity between 5 and 6 years old they find a mate and start their own life journey.

[Muse]

Greyt post Muse. One thing though, when a grey fledges, it only means they can fly and keep up with their parents and flock. They are no where near able to survive on their own yet. There are a gazillion things they must learn during those first years. Most do not venture off from their parents until around two years old, yet they stay close. At sexual maturity between 5 and 6 years old they find a mate and start their own life journey.

 

Thank you, Dan.

 

I wasn't aware it took that long. I knew they stayed close to their flock. I know many other birds are ready to be on their own after only months. I used to watch the starlings fledge and it seemed like overnight they were at the feeders by themselves and mom was already on another clutch of eggs.

 

Even if they leave 'home' at five, that's far beyond the abilities of a five year old human.

[Muse]

Muse, very well stated. My wild caught 'zon and CAG were my wonderful teachers. HRH Inara is now reaping the benefits.

 

I am just amazed at the difference in how they choose to interact with me.

 

We are looking at taking a very violent wild-caught ex-breeder (unsuccessful) Amazon. Not sure how that is going to work out. But I bet it will be a learning experience as much as Peck has been.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

It may be a wonderful experience! You never know until you try! What I love so much about Sophie, is how versatile she is. She has met dogs other birds, guinea pigs, senior dogs puppies, wrestling team, strange teenagers, she takes it all in stride, and loves the entire social scene. Its always been a positive experience for her, and everyone ( human), has delivered on providing her with a positive experience.Its been important that kids have always loved her, treated her with respect, and have never allowed teasing, cursing or any form of disrespect to Sophie. No wonder she loves them both. Nancy