kave70 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I've posted before about Sam's incessant screaming, mostly when my husband is home, but not holding him. Joe hurt his back and has been home for a week now. Unfortunately, the screaming is back, and to the extreme. Sam gets himself so worked up that then he paces and shakes his leg and goes into a child like tantrum meltdown. He's been screaming for days. I'm not sure what we should be doing- we've been ignoring it, as best possible. Even at dinner, when he is at the table with us, but more than 3 feet away from Joe, the screaming persists. Joe's noted that he's been so frantic that now, even when he can sit and hold him, Sam is quite nippy and never seems to settle down. So, my big question is..... what to do? I want to figure out how we humans should be acting. It's hard to see him get totally worked up, the pacing begin and then being in a meltdown for hours. The screaming is grating on everyone's nerves, as it's constant when Joe is within eye/earshot. I can handle it, but it is making for a very tense home. Suggestions and thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timotian Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Understand that parrots are not supposed to be quiet animals, so allow for normal noisy periods. Do not reward excessive screaming with attention and drama. Teach the parrot a contradictory sound, such as whistling or whispering. Always reinforce good noises with lavish praise and attention. Always ignore the sounds that you don’t like, such as excessive screaming. Look for patterns in screaming episodes, then look for ways to prevent the pattern from starting. Teach the bird a redirected activity, such as foraging for treats. Reward your family — and yourself — for their patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave70 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Thanks for your thoughts. The noise level is not the issue at all. This goes way beyond a normal noisy period. When Sam gets into these frantic periods, he does ABSOLUTELY nothing else but scream and pace and shake his leg for hours and hours. It's not fun for him. It escalates to the point where he looks like a little kid exhausted from an all day tantrum. Whistling, singing, playing, music..... nothing seems to help. I'm trying to find a way to give Sam more peace- and let him enjoy life when Daddy is home. If we should keep ignoring it, I gladly will..... I just think there must be something I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have been following your story. There is DEFINATELY something wrong in HIS mind, as this behaviour is not normal. Some screaming occasionally, yes, but mostly no. If it is as bad as you say, then I can Imagine that he is stressing himself out so much, that is unhealthy for him. I have a grey that goes frantic with panic when I try to mist her, she screams, flips out, climbing around her cage, thrashing her body around against the bars, falling until she almost passes out from exhaustion. The area around her eyes turns bright red like she's going to bleed at any moment during this event. I have tried every way possible with bathing her, and this is the result of it, so I chose to go against all the advice and warnings from all members here and let her bath in her water dish on her tree stand when she wishes. In my mind her emotional well being is FAR better and more important than her dusty little body. That being said, I would try to find out WHAT exactly sets her off, is it your husband? If so, can she be put seperate from him where she can't see him? Le time know and I will offer more advice as you can describe when she is quiet and happy, and when she throws these fits. It has to stop, it's very unhealthy for her well being and YOURS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 At this point the behaviour is so extreme that I suggest contacting a behaviouist. I would suggest Barbara Heidenreich at Good Bird Inc. IMHO she is at the top of her field when it comes to extinguishing problem companion bird behaviours. There will be a fee for a phone consultation, but it'll still probably be less than the hearing aids you'll need to buy for the family in a few years due to hearing loss Take a look at her website and the material there and see what you think. You have my upmost respect for being determined to work through this. There are a lot of people out there who would have re-homed Sam by now. He doesn't know what a lucky little guy he is. Remember you can always come on here if you need to vent. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave70 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Talon- THANK YOU! Here's what I think: Sam is madly in love with my husband, Joe. When Joe get's up in the morning, even covered in the cage, the screaming begins. I am the primary caretaker of all animals (and humans) in the house. I uncover the cage and have Sam watch me make his breakfast. He won't eat it... he's just looking for Daddy. When Joe takes him out of his cage, he is super happy, quiet, nuzzling (although Joe has said it's been more biting the past several days) and takes a shower and hangs out with Joe until he leaves for work. When he is first returned to his cage, the screaming kicks into high gear... but if I somehow manage to redirect him, it will then dissapate for hours. Throughout the day it will be on and off, until Joe gets home. Then, it will swing back into full gear. Since Joe hurt his back and has been home, the screaming never really has a chance to subside. If Daddy is anywhere in the house, or near within sight distance, the screaming continues to escalate. My MIL is in the end stages of dementia and Joe and I must work together to move her, etc. When Joe's attention goes to anything/anyone else, the screaming starts and then it just doesn't stop until bedtime. Poor Sam is so exhausted, he hasn't been playing with a toy, having fun...... it's heartbreaking to see the stress come over him and I can't find a way to help. I think Sam LOVES Joe and is calling to him the only way he knows how. He just keeps at it... So, are we making it worse by trying to ignore it and just taking him out at the same times we normally do? Is there something we could/should be doing to help the situation? Thank you for understanding- I'm not complaining, just trying to help him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave70 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think we might make that our next step. I have all her videos, of course, and we have been trying to clicker train Sam since he joined our flock. Thanks for the excellent suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You have the patience of a saint!! AS others said, most would have re-homed him by now, but you have such a kind understanding heart to want to help him work thru this...and you WILL get thru it. Unfortunately, it is up to us humans to try and figure it out, he certainly cant do anything but scream to tell you he is completely addicted to your hubby! Have you tried the bird sitter dvd, it plays non stop and it is very enjoyable, my birds love it. It has babies, humans feeding and interacting with many species, birds outdoors, playing, feeding, etc. It was made for birds to watch. I have good luck with that calming my birds when they act up. You could try that for the dhort term, or my birds love cartoons, nick jr, and music.....calming music.....sometimes opera is a calming one to try. It may take time, but he in between screams, he may like it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 kave70 I agree. It sounds like Sam is in love with Joe. Hopefully Joe is agreeable to help with Sam's behavior. I went thru the same thing with Sophie years ago. She was in love with Ryan, my son.Ryan agreed to make her be top priority. As soon as he got home, he went right to her cage routinely. Even when he found a girlfriend, he always made Sophie know she was his favorite girl. ( girlfriend understood.) Same girlfriend for past four years. Sophie finally made an attempt the other day to make friends with Kayleigh! LOL( a long time!) Once Sophie believed Ryan loved her the best, she was able to develop relationships with others in the house, including their friends. I thought she was going to freakout when he went to college this year. She didn't. He calls her a few times a week and they chat on the phone.( I became her favorite as well!) I thought I would be put on the " back burner", once he got home, but I wasn't. She is happy to see him, is loving him to death, but goes to us equally. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think we might make that our next step. I have all her videos, of course, and we have been trying to clicker train Sam since he joined our flock. Thanks for the excellent suggestion. This is a hard post for me to make. I would stop the Clicker training and go back to a simple life style. Sam has a phobia that stems from a previous owner/owners, it could have been the male or the female that has caused the problem, the one Sam liked or didn't like. It sounds like Sam was mentally abused, the recovery from ths can be a very long time, if at all. Listen for "Key words or phrases " that has nothing to do with his/your present life style for clues. You need to spend "quiet time" with Sam, both you and your husband together and each of you separately in a quiet dim lighted room, same one each day at the same time if possible. Just go there and do nothing but talk. Don't make any judgements right off the bat, take time and see how Sam reacts with each of you alone and together. You have a very very long road of screaming ahead of you, but stick it out, your good parronts..... Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Jay's point about key phrases made me remember something. Dorian was neglected by his previous owners. No bad intentions on their parts, they were just a bad fit for a grey. Anyway, I couldn't ever get him to step up. Every time I said the words he would back away shaking. Then I found out the only time he was told 'step up' in his previous home was once every few months when they would force him to step up and take him out, towel him, and do a severe clip. I changed my request to "wanna come with mom" and that's when I started having success. My point here is it can be something really small that finally clicks and it takes really listening and watching our fids. I would buy those foam ear plugs that compress when you pinch them and then expand when you put them in. You can still hear but it takes off the edge of the screaming. I had to use them at one point with Dorian when he was going through an anxiety screeching stage. They helped me stay calm and that allowed me to continue to approach him with calm body language. Also, go back and read Reggieroo's posts about his first grey Murphy and screaming. There was a point when they were at their wits end but they got it solved. I don't think their screaming problem was as bad as Sams, but it can be fixed. I'm sending lots of love and calming thoughts yours and Sams way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Have you considered video taping around the time that the screaming happens. You will get a different perspective on whats happening in the room which might give you some clues. Thank you for working so hard at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave70 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Thanks everyone. I feel so much better now that I've had a chance to vent and we've come up with a plan of action. My husband and I had an in depth consultation with the owner of our favorite birdstore- here's the link. http://www.theparrotandbirdemporium.com/ Janet spent a very long time talking to us. We brought lots of videos with us for her to see the described behaviors. She gave us a lot of the same tips as you all suggested, and gave us articles written by Barbara Heidenreich, which addresses the screaming. We mapped out a plan of completely ignoring the screaming, and instead rewarding a different call (a whistle that he will use instead..... of his choice, of course). If he screams my husband leaves the room and if I can, I do too... Since it's an open floor plan and Sam is right int he middle of it all, it's not always that easy. If I cannot physically leave, I turn my back to him and at least leave his area. If he makes any other acceptable noise, my husband is his reward and he goes to the cage and pets, loves him. When my husband leaves (or at least takes a shower, since he is home with an injured back) I then take Sam out and put him on his play stand, or let him hang out with ME. If Joe and or I leave for more than a few minutes, we are going to give Sam one of his favorite foraging toys, to redirect his attention for a bit. We discussed a few other things, like limiting the type of contact Sam has with Joe- a few pets and snuggles is good, but they feel that Sam is displaying lots and lots of mating behavior with Joe, and very little else. He's becoming extremely posessive, and it's stressing him out when Joe won't give him complete attention..... constantly. It may also be the key to him accepting other family members- we shall see. So, now that we have a plan of action, we will see how it goes. I believe that us all working together, to map this out, will help with everyone following the same rules (read between the lines- my poor husband knows he MUST leave each time Sam screams, and MUST reward each time Sam whistles- hahhahaaa) I truly thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. This forum is filled with exceptional, caring people. I am thankful to be a part of such a wonderful group. Wish us luck :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Luck, luck, luck, luck. You can do it. Just remember if you break down and give Sam attention after an hour of screaming, you just taught him to scream for an hour When Dorian is in obnoxious birdy mode I mutter 'I'm not answering that' under my breath until he chooses an acceptable sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kave70 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 You are so very right- think I'm going to cut your reminder out and stick it on the fridge and the computer :-) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 kave70... the bird advice you have received, sounds great! We all learn as well! We are all here to support you guys. nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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