luvgrey Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Our 2 yr. old grey started plucking & chewing the feathers under one wing in the winter. The vet said it was due to electric heat dryness. We bought a humidifier and used a spray called Rain and then Aloe spray. This worked for about a week or so, then right back to the same plucking. Back to the vet, blood work, trimming, etc. and he was put on a med like prozac - low dosage so far (9 days). The vet said it is now a compulsive habit. My husband has to towel him on the floor every night to get the med into his mouth - plus being bitten by him almost every time. Any suggestions on how to admininister the med. We do not see any difference in this behavior so far. Our bird does not like baths, except in his water dish, so we spray him every day. He is quite bitey and aggressive too, always has been. In plain words - not a nice fellow. He is not a great eater, but I keep trying all kinds of food and pellots for him. I am home with him at all times, he has plenty of toys and open cage all day. He says about 15 things and sleeps 12 hours straight - so that is his saving grace.....we keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlmuke Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Is it a liquid or a pill? Can the medicine be mixed with food or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (Maggie writing for Jay) Hi! If I may, is your vet strictly an avian vet or a general vet? (This opinion is mine and mine alone.) I feel the best way to administer this medication is to pour it down a drain. I am not a vet but we give our Fids weak organic chamomile tea in the evening. there is nothing whatsoever that can harm or hurt a parrot. Some people feed small seeds so that it occupies the parrot, the same as supplying lots of toys and foraging things for your fid to do. Continue with the aloe spray and it will not hurt them. It takes longer to get a plucker to stop than it took to start. Dave007 is an expert on pluckers. (Amongst other things) Thanks Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I agree, dump it down the drain! So he is a plucker, don't put chemicals that aren't good for his health into him, let him be and buy him a sweater like another member did. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Well, you said that it was a med *that's like Prozac*. You didn't say it was actually Prozac. Usually, a vet will show a person how to give the meds. He/she will normally do it in front of the owners. Yes, it could make the bird ornery and bitty. Many meds are hard to give. I think you should ask the vet how to do it. We can't give you methods because all birds deal with something in their own way. Clipping can cause problems for some birds. Their plucking comes in different catagories Chronic plucking----the bird has always been a plucker and will remain that way for good Acute plucking----the bird will start plucking for quite a while and then stop Incubation plucking--a hen will pluck a certain part of the lower underside so that eggs will be kept warmer. Feathers grow back when incubation is done for the season. To me, it sounds like acute plucking. Acute plucking can be caused by the clipped feathers growing back in and pinching other areas of the skin. That immediately makes the bird pluck those feathers out. It can take a very long time before the bird gets a new set of feathers. Usually, it happens by coincedence. Everything happens to be correct at the right time and the feathers grow in properly. Seeing quick results with meds when it concerns plucking isn't gonna happen. It takes a while. Aloe is good but there's something stronger which is also good Type in AVITEC.COM On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING---click on it Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it there's 3 choices 1---premixed bottle 2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz) 3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz) ------- Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle 1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. Heavily soak your bird down once a day. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around. Discard what remains at the end of the day. Edited May 5, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I don't like to see these kind of meds prescribed for birds in the first place but the vet should have instructed you on how to administer this med and if he didn't then he is failing you as a vet, I have to agree that I would rather see an oven ready looking bird than one drugged up just to keep their feathers. I too know several friends who have vests on their birds because they are pluckers and mutilators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I don't like to see these kind of meds prescribed for birds in the first place but the vet should have instructed you on how to administer this med and if he didn't then he is failing you as a vet, I have to agree that I would rather see an oven ready looking bird than one drugged up just to keep their feathers. I too know several friends who have vests on their birds because they are pluckers and mutilators. ******I would rather see an oven ready looking bird ********* having all the fixin too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Yep, mashed potatoes, gravy and peas, yummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 ******I would rather see an oven ready looking bird ********* having all the fixin too? Yep, mashed potatoes, gravy and peas, yummy! You are both so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvgrey Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 The medicine is Amitriptyline - I spoke to the vet today and he said to increase it to 1.25 from 1.15 - he told us how to administer it, but that is really a fight with the bird each night. We are disgusted with this and will look into the Avitec that was suggested. This vet is an avian vet and told me today that he might have to change the medicine in two weeks if no improvement. We really hate to fight with the bird every night just to give med. I asked the vet if I could put it on a little food and he said it wasn't advisable. We will keep you informed of any progress or change. Thanks for all your help so far....I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvgrey Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 The medicine is a liquid and we put it into a syringe to administer.....he sees it coming!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 The medicine is Amitriptyline - I spoke to the vet today and he said to increase it to 1.25 from 1.15 - he told us how to administer it, but that is really a fight with the bird each night. We are disgusted with this and will look into the Avitec that was suggested. This vet is an avian vet and told me today that he might have to change the medicine in two weeks if no improvement. We really hate to fight with the bird every night just to give med. I asked the vet if I could put it on a little food and he said it wasn't advisable. We will keep you informed of any progress or change. Thanks for all your help so far....I appreciate it. I wonder if a compounding pharmacy could help by providing it in a more pleasing flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Even pluckers are beautiful! Meet the nudist, naked and darn proud! If your bird is medically healthy, why torture yourselves and your bird medicating him for nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 As a medical person, I respect what the vet as prescribed, and we all must do so. They know better! Chewing, is wrong! It affects a birds life forever! If the small dose of sedation helps, we shouldn't argue. Its NOT just sedation, but an antianxiety. We all know how stressed out greys can get. It needs to be deaLt with. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) As a medical person, I respect what the vet as prescribed, and we all must do so. They know better! Chewing, is wrong! It affects a birds life forever! If the small dose of sedation helps, we shouldn't argue. Its NOT just sedation, but an antianxiety. We all know how stressed out greys can get. It needs to be deaLt with. Nancy {Maggie typing for Jay} I'm sorry, just because a "Vet" hangs a shingle doesn't mean they known what they're talking about, especially if they're a general vet! This means we should always research what they give us before we use it on our parrots, not just accept it because they say so, yes, argue if it don't sound right, don't be blind and say "they're a vet" I have to respect them and do what they say!!! Research!!!! Does any one know what "Amitriptyline " is? used for? on who?. #1, that's right, sedate instead of trying to cure the problem! Dave suggested a product that really really works and cause no present or possibly future harm. #2, This is a"CAT" medicine!!! #3You've been given other safe suggestions besides Dave's Try them, there is no over night cure!!! #4, In my life I've seen what drugs can do to our parrot, I've had them die in my hands after someone returned from a vet who gave non-proven drugs. Read Dave's post again, try it, dump the drug, you can give your baby a little Chamomile tea a day..Meet Freddy, 21yr's, healthy, happy and well plucked........Jay Edited May 6, 2012 by Jayd spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) As a medical person, I respect what the vet as prescribed, and we all must do so. They know better! Chewing, is wrong! It affects a birds life forever! If the small dose of sedation helps, we shouldn't argue. Its NOT just sedation, but an antianxiety. We all know how stressed out greys can get. It needs to be deaLt with. Nancy I agree with Maggie/Jayd. Being a medical person doesn't teach that medical person how to deal with wild animals. Respecting what a vet says just because he'/she's a vet means nothing. There's other reasons why he/she should be respected. Chewing/ plucking may be wrong but there's many reasons that it happens and being a medical person doesn't mean that a vet has warranted the respect concerning what he says. There's loads of people here that are extremely sorry that what was told to them by the vet was wrong. Other vets had to be used by those people. In my posts i stay away from talking about meds. I don't believe I've ever done or said anything that should allow me to give a person/people opinions concerning the way they think about vets. I leave that up to them. I bypass drugs. I don't tell people to follow orders without checking things first. I don't tell people to give tranquilazers or anti anxiety meds. I don't give instructions on how to feed drugs. I've been asked but that's a no no. That's between them and the vets. I wouldn't tell people to follow a vet's advice even if I was a medical person because if the bird dies, I wouldn't feel good if the person followed my advice. So much for being a medical person. So in a situation like this, it's not a good idea to side with what a vet says simply because a person says that they're a medical person and what that person says is the only way. I dealt with part of OP's problem---a possible skin problem, maybe a personality problem that causes plucking, what types of pluckers there are and I proceeded to recommend a product that in no way is gonna be swallowed by the bird. Why? Because I'm not a medical person. ****I respect what the vet as prescribed, and we all must do so. They know better! **** Really?? Come on, wake up and smell the coffee! Edited May 7, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 If you do decide to finish his meds try injecting into a large grape where he cannot see then offer him that grape. You can seal the meds in with a smear of p-nut butter or Almond butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 How is your baby?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 It IS important, to find a vet that you respect, and trust their advice. I am lucky... to have that respect. Do I question their advice? Absolutely! There are two Nancy's with the last name in my vets practice. I always tell them, I'm the Nancy with the " fat chart!" I don't have any questions for my vet, regarding birds, but if they ever chewed...I would " listen", to their advice. Starting a bird on Prozac, or Amitriptylline, is NOT a horrible thing. It takes the edge off, regarding chewing. Isn't that the goal? I have never had a bird, that chewed their feathers, but if I did, my vet would be involved with decision making. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Works better for a cat. A couple of years ago, we had a "TOO that was given "Amitriptylline" because his owners didn't like the natural "TOO's nervousness, On the 5 day, he went to sleep for 2 days before dying. We have Buddy now, a Mitered conure, he was given drugs, he won't be around much longer, he's pretty bad off. When he came down from the drugs, he'd fling himself off the perch againest the cage till he bleed, all we could do is towel him till he calmed down, you should see the scars on my hands. No, starting a parrot on Prozac, or Amitriptylline is NOT a horrible thing, but it could be deadly..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama CJ Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I would look for more natural remedies to start with also. When I've had to give meds to my birds, it was always in liquid form so I would put in a little bird bread or just plain wheat bread, maybe with a smear of peanut butter if it tasted awful.... My husband was on Amitriptyline for a short while for what they thought was nerve damage, anyway, he had a horrible time on it. He as in a daze the whole time, even on a low dose, and the side effects were awful. Nasty stuff. He has to be getting more stressed from the trauma of taking the meds, then the vet ups the meds for more stress....seems like a vicious circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenabrd Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 i know this subject is a tough one. we have the girls on a low dose of haldol for their plucking issues. it's a liquid that goes in their water and at a very specific dose. this was discussed with my avian vet very thoroughly before we started this. i asked lots of questions before i made the decision to try this approach. i knew what side effects to look for. i'm not advocating one way or the other, i'm just explaining what we did and why. for our girls, it's helped with the plucking. new feathers are starting to come in. believe me, we'd tried everything we could think of before we started any medication, including ruling out any physical issues with the vet. the girls have the best diet we can afford to give them, lots of toys and things to shred, attention, etc. and for all that, they pluck. i will continue with the haldol for a while longer then take them off it and see what happens and if necessary, have more discussions with the vet. this was not because they weren't just as loved without their "clothes" as with their "clothes", it was because they each had an area that was very red (skin issues ruled out by vet's thorough exam) and irritated and i didn't want them to start mutilating their skin as this can sometimes be the next "step" they take. it is working for us. but this is an issue and decision that must be made by each person after a long discussion with their avian vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Thank you thenabird. The biggest problem is when you stop using it, we have had trouble in the past with Macaws and "TOO's. Hallucinations, rubbing their tongue on the inside of their beak etc. The biggest problem is dosage and any actual scientific study. We've had real good luck with Chamomile tea and Dave solution...To eliminate the reason, eliminates problem. Your Gryet parront's.... Thanks Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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