Guest briansmum Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 judy darlin' you are karma queen! stop being so good dangit ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevjoe Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 It's great when a women begs. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblhelix Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Great Job Talon (what happened anyways??) :ohmy: My take on the Alex issue (w/o knowing Dr Pepperberg, their staff etc personally) is that they provided and continue to provide for their subjects (the birds) very well. Everything I saw indicated that these birds lead an enriched life with a lot of attention and love. I noted on a pic posted on the site below that Alex appeared to have some red factor. Anyone know if that is true? Also, listen to the NPR audio, its a good story. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14293868&sc=emaf) Oh, and I got your back on the Karma Judy!! <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/09/14 02:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevjoe Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Karma for Judy. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest briansmum Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 i like that article Mark "After repeating some learning trials dozens of times, Alex would become tired and throw objects off the trays with his beak." yet more evidence that it was highly unlikely alex was over trained. "How would Alex say goodbye? Pepperberg says that she imagines it would sound something like what Alex would say to her every night before going to bed: "You be good. I love you. See you tomorrow." " that doesnt sound like something a drilled lab bird would say to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 15, 2007 Author Share Posted September 15, 2007 I do think alex was cared for as far as feeding, and cleaning. But I wonder if he was just overworked, stressed and some sort of abuse. Such as, the article said he was worked 8 to 12 hours a day, he was struck on the beak with the object repeatedly until he gave the answer to the questions and the object was forced close to his eyes, was he blind? and surely his beak was sore after being struck on it for hours a day, for not communicating like they wanted him too? and also, where were his red tail feathers in some of the video clips, and notice in some of his other videos he was missing alot of feathers and they were all ruffled, (that is a sign of stress or unhappiness) and also, remember Irene P. did not buy the parrot to be her loving pet, she bought him to conduct experiments because she was a scientist.The facts are... Alex only lived to be 31, he should have lived around 50 in captivity, What we don't know is, how he was being treated and trained without the camera ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 Rambo, I don't think a bird would do anything (as in talking etc.) if he's maltreated. I think it's a natural form of defense. But, I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevjoe Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 So If we don't know whats the truth whats the point. You have a thing about the bird. If it comes out that way you can feel RIGHT, but your talking to the wrong people about it. Get in touch with who ever you have to, and send the true results to whom ever you want to. I guess you feel better always beeing right without Facts. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makena Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 I don't really think an abused parrot would say... "see you tomorrow, be good, I love you" ...every time Irene would leave.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest briansmum Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 he wouldn't have learned anything if he was abused. if your bird is in a bad mood it doesn't want to do anything. if alex had of been mistreated or over worked he would have simply stopped working. i'm not saying they didn't work hard with him, they did things over and over, but it seems alex was perfectly happy with his lifestyle and training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 15, 2007 Author Share Posted September 15, 2007 here is the website of one of the videos on Alex. click on entertaining parrots. it's alex. and why is his name.Alex? Avarion.... Lab.... Experiment!... My Grey does tricks and communicates back to me and i hav'ent drilled him or constantly struck him on the beak to get him to respond! I'm not a scientist to figure out how he can communicate. it was over love, time and affection! and if you read the truth, the article says. "Pepperburg said,the good night routine, in which she told him it was time to go in the cage and she said "YOU BE GOOD. I LOVE YOU. I'LL SEE YOU TOMARROW, AND ALEX RESPONDED, "YOU'LL BE IN TOMARROW'? they only told us what they wanted us to know! why did it take so long to report his death? OH... TO DO AN AUTOPSY AND DECIFER HIS BODY PARTS. SCIENTIST!? PLEASE PEOPLE, READ THE FACTS CORRECTLY AND LOOK AT VIDEOS AND PAY ATTENTION TO HIS BODY, AND PERSONALITLY AND HOW THEY TRAIN HIM.!!!! here is one video and click on "entertaining parrots" http://www.pbs.org/saf/1201/video/watchonline.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 Rambo, You seem to postulate many suppositions with out any substantiating facts. How did you discover the Acronym of Alex equaling "Avian Lab Experiment"? The video portrays a highly intelligent Alex with people surrounding him that love him and are interested in him. If you note the body language of Alex, he is intrigued with what is going on and highly interactive. As I am sure you know, if a Grey does not like what's going on, they will definitely let you know. So far, I personally do not see any compelling evidence for your allegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 15, 2007 Author Share Posted September 15, 2007 about his name, Alex, rememeber people pepperberg bought the bird for experiemnts! not like all of us, for pets.!!!! I saw on Alex's site a few years ago that his name Alex stood for (Avarion. Laboratory. Exeriments. It was took off her site i guess because she may have gotten some bad feed about it from animal activists. i did see it on there! I got my parrot 7 years ago, and before i got rambo i did alot of reserch on what type of bird i wanted. i knew african greys were very communicative and responsive to people and learning. (not only from pepperburgs research but from other grey owners.) i wish she still had his name and why she named him that so i could prove it!!!! don't get me wrong, i loved little alex and i love all birds, and animals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Please let me correct you Rambo: ALEX stood for: Avian Learning EXperiment. Although I do agree with the feeling you seem to have. That Alex was overworked, and over trained. The things that Alex could do, doesn't happen easily. That takes consistency and hard work every day of his life. He did show signs of stress and frustration with his feather plucking. I feel that his training could have led to his untimely death. Not for the reasons that others say, as him being mistreated. I believe he was treated very well, had the best doctors, the best diet, the best care possible, the best interaction with humans that any Grey could possibly have, and lots of love from everyone he came in contact with. As far as how happy he appeared, he lived the only life he knew, and any bird who doesn't know any other life, will be happy with their life, just like all animals and birds. The truth is, we probably will never really know the real reason for his death. At this point, everything everyone here has to say about it is SPECULATION.<br><br>Post edited by: Talon, at: 2007/09/15 21:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CursingLlama Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Back to topic... I think Alex was cared for an incredible amount and if you look up the post with his last words I think you'd find that obvious as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted September 16, 2007 Author Share Posted September 16, 2007 Thank you for being open minded and looking at everything from both sides of the perspective! I do know that he was very well taken care of. I don't believe that he was mistreated or abused except for the overtraining and overworked which i felt it lead to his early death. I do believe that he should have had a better balance of training and playtime. I just wonder if he had any other time outside of a laboratory environment? My boyfriend did an experiment on me, by stricking me in the nose repeatedly with a pencil and tried to make me say something. it was aggitated me until i finally said the word, so then he stopped. imagine little alex and that technique that they used? it must have been frustrating for him too. day after day. after day after day. please watch the video and maybe people will see things the way i do. click on ...entertaining parrots.. with alan alda and irene pepperburg. thanks ..... http://www.pbs.org/saf/1201/video/watchonline.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeasarsDad Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Rambo.. I thought the same thing as you did about Alex.. that he may have been over trained.. NOT ABUSED though. It's important to realize that Alex was a VERY LUCKY African Grey.. He was around the smartest life form on the planet.. Contrast that against the Grey that is locked away in his cage with no new toys... and barely clean water.. The later case is way too common.. Regarding someone comment about Greys living to 50 and Alex died at only 31.. That is meaningless really.. Humans are suppose to live to 80 something.. Why do some die at 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 I agree with CD and like to add that although I never heard of Alex before he died and I read this thread, it seems to me quite impossible to be in the public spotlight while having all animal activists' eyes watching obviously very shrewdly and be able to abuse a bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jamalbirdbiz Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Stressed out? abused? who iz einstein? is he in a lab 2? I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Why don't you google einstein and find out Jamal before you go off half cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimaysmommy Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I agree, do some research....google search Einstein or go to YouTube. There are quite a few videos on Einstein, and you can read about her and the zoo she resides in at http://www.knoxville-zoo.org/einstein.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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