Gilbert is home

[Sarasota]

You know the old saying..."The only thing that two trainers can agree on is that the third one is doing it wrong."

[Wingy]

Proving us wrong must be an inherited trait. I just get finished saying Jake won't eat nuts and what is he eating? The little bugger cracked and is devouring a pistachio.

[katana600]

I know he heard you say he didn't like nuts and is showing you what he does or does not like... today. LOL. Gilbert really cranked up the energy, I am wondering if he heard me on the phone telling a friend up north that we stayed such a short time that I would come back up to see the fall foliage in October. He is going to give me fits and not do another road trip like the last few. I do believe he has racked up about ten thousand miles since we became an item.

[katana600]

So, the plot thickens. When Rachel moved back in, she brought furniture for which we had to find space for the short term. A second sofa in the living room pushed Gilbert's cage one way about three feet. This vantage point permits him to see everything he could see before but added a peep through my open bedroom door. This morning, I was giving a little cuddle to our boy Mick with the injured knee. I was kissing and fussing over him and Gilbert peered in and said something I have never heard come from him. He said "ohhh you naughty boy". I am not sure if he was refering to himself or to Mick. But it made me think. When Gilbert started loving on Rachel and giving me the stink eye could have arisen because he gets wildly jealous if I hold Java, hug David in his presence or pick up one of the dogs and hold them. Java is a bit the same. They are both willing to accept family members and visitors but their mama is off limits for hugging anyone. Java once bit David in the face for the unforgiveable infraction of sitting next to me on the couch and holding my hand. Gilbert may have gotten snitty with me in recent weeks because he sees David in our room to "roost" with me. I am going to move his cage back to his original spot to see if this makes a difference. I have to say hearing him say something new and different was such a joy. He said something else through the open door when I was reading in my room last night, but it has escaped my memory at this moment. I love seeing him open up even if it means he is grumpy to me and showing off his rough side. LOL.

[birdhouse]

Wow, this page has a lot going on. First thing that struck me as I was catching up was still not hearing anything about plucking. If that doesn't just go w/o saying now, then it seems major.

 

I really wonder if you may have hit on something about the cage's current vantage point & Gilbert's current attitude towards you. Maybe you could change that before you try to recreate the house so he & Java are totally separated. I don't know if that's going to be a good thing or not, but it won't ever give them the chance to work out a peaceful coexistence. What do you think you about just putting some more space between their cages, instead?

[katana600]

Good timing on your response, thanks. I was thinking along the same lines with the interaction this morning. Now that I have been thinking back, Gilbert gets buddy buddy with me and lets me give him scritches when David is out of town all week. Also, for three weeks, when Mick was first injured he had to be crated for complete rest so no one was in my bed for three weeks and Gilbert was coming around and being sweet to me again. I will move one chair and put Gilbert back to his original spot. I will leave Java where she is for now. My thinking to move Java and spend time with her out of Gilbert's sight will still give her some time where she doesn't feel scared to be under his watchful eye. She has not been the same since her injury/illness and vet visit. If he bit her in that fraction of a second she may need a little reassurance. Also, I am not planning to separate the two as if it were a quarantine to have totally separate areas, just a place they can each call their own and have individual attention at different times of the day and then together time every day as well. When I get Java out of her cage Gilbert always uses a soft voice and calls her Pretty Girl and sings to her so I know they are not enemies. He just doesn't want it under his nose when I cuddle and let her on me. I will also take no chance whatsoever that she can touch his cage because he is more and more possessive and lately has been downright huffy if anthing is changed or touched by anyone except Rachel. And yes, thank our lucky stars, Gilbert has done no plucking, no barbering and is gaining confidence. I am still in awe at the way he responded to his shadow. When I saw it for the first time it was so big and so bold that I thought when he caught sight of it he might get hysterical. I had my hand on the light switch to turn it off quickly but he turned and saw it at that moment and his reaction was such a surprise to me, I just watched it unfold. He has been giving it a lot of attention this week.

[katana600]

He is enjoying the interaction with his shadow so much, I am holding off on changing that light bulb. I had to climb the stairs and he couldn't decide whether he wanted to play with his shadow or keep an eye on me. The angle made the shadow look smaller than it is in person. He talks to it and it is really entertaining to him.

[Timbersmom]

Wow, great pic! I wish you could get him on video interacting with his shadow...

[Greywings]

Proving us wrong must be an inherited trait. I just get finished saying Jake won't eat nuts and what is he eating? The little bugger cracked and is devouring a pistachio.[/quote

He heard you-

[danmcq]

Shadows and recognizing them are a very high level brain process. I have no clue what goes through their minds when they first notice it, but since we take our birds outside all the time it was evident dayo and jake noticed there's and ours as we walked around. I did label it as a "Shadow" and dayo picked up on it all most immediately and will tell you "See my Shadow". He also moves and watches just as gilbert did as you so well described. YOu know, teher is so much going on in those walnut sized brains that we have yet to fully recognize, it's almost frightening.

 

Thanks for sharing this.

[katana600]

This is such a new thing with Gilbert. It just so happened the right bulb of three blew out to create the shadow right where he likes it. He has also been standing on the rail on the very back of his cage and interacting with his smaller, closer shadow. I have been telling him it is his shadow and making some of my own shadows on the wall. He seems very very interested, not scared at all but if I get involved too much he loses interest and goes into his cage. If I can get video, I would love to share that. He will notice his shadow but just go about his business and suddenly start talking and interacting with it. I get so caught up in the moment with him that I don't want to break the "spell" by infering to get a camera involved. Gilbert does seem to be opening up a little.

[katana600]

Dan, as it is getting darker, I went back over to play a shadow game with Gilbert. When you mentioned the high level thinking, I agree and he did something that was even more surprising to me. I came to one side of his cage, but my shadow was not in a good place, so I went to the other side. He had his back to me as he was facing his own shadow on the wall. I was telling him it was his shadow. I made the shadow of my hand on the wall and my shadow was touching the head of his shadow. He got really animated and was bouncing up and down and swaying. I thought he was playing, but no, he was not. He suddenly came across three feet of playtop and up the ladder trying to bite me. He knew what was causing the shadow, he didn't go after the shadow he went after my hand. This is a phase of his, he has not been particularly cage aggressive until recent weeks. I am going to leave his cage where it is for now, but I did move it six inches one way so it is not easy for him to see inside my room. Last night as I told him goodnight, he took a swipe at me when I offered a scratch. He took a swipe at me when I offered him an pine nut. He took the pine nut I offered in his dish and flung it in disdain. It could not have been 90 seconds later at lights out when I was just getting comfortable, he was enticing me with his little "hey" to come back out. He has not let me scratch his head in quite a little while, so I came back out to him and sure enough he let me scratch his head for a long long time. I guess his fluctuating from warm and sweet to a quick turnabout to a full on attack with seemingly no provocation goes the opposite way too. I try to remember than when I am trying so hard not to take it personally when he gets into a snit with me.

Edited September 10, 2012 by katana600

[Timbersmom]

I'm sorry he tried to bite you, but that's really interesting about him understanding the relationship between the shadows and the person/bird making them! I wish I was better at bird psychology and body language, but rarely can I figure out what makes Timber behave the way he does. When he bites, it hurts my feelings to be frank. Then I have to remember to breath and just walk away.

[katana600]

It is really hard at the moment of a bite to remember that it is about Gilbert, where he has been and how things affect him instead of just the searing reaction to pain and apparent rejection. With Gilbert, if I can find a cause or trigger that will repeat itself, I can avoid those reactions. With him, the important thing is to stop, walk away and try again from another approach. When he is sweet he is really really a wonderful little fellow. When I can help him to calm down and then try again with his treats or giving him an opportunity to end an interaction in a positive way, it really goes a long way toward helping him get one step closer to being able to calm himself. We always have to look at the big picture and how far he has come since the day he arrived. When he asserts himself, chases Java or runs to defend his cagetop, it pleases me greatly because of the amount of time he has spent huddled on a perch, afraid to move and apprehensive about any kind of movement or overture. The fact that he has been so lovey to David and to Rachel helps me appreciate that he is developing the ability to make good choices for himself and also the ability just to calm himself when things seem stressful to him. A year ago, he might have chewed off feathers and now he is getting a dose of courage. While it may not be good for me at the moment, I know it is a self-regulating behavior that is much healthier than turning inward and shutting everyone out. I may never understand him but I will celebrate every milestone he crosses on the way to finding his potential.

[Timbersmom]

Gilbert has made so much progress, and you have the patience to deal with him. He was really blessed to end up in your home.

[danmcq]

Don't mess with Gilberts shadow!!!

 

I believe you had indicated earlier that he did not like like others in your flock to mess with his shadow either and would chase them away. This is such interesting behavior! He obviously recognizes the shadow belongs to him and that other shadows are being caused by others and is possessive of his shadow remaining untouched. It almost like young children trying to step on each others shadows. I wish they could could tell us what they are thinking at that moment, but I think the body language says it all.

 

Gilbert is display such a huge personality that has slowly been coming out, it is wonderful to read as it opens up a little more at a time. .

[katana600]

Dan, you don't know how hard it is for me not to climb a ladder to replace that bulb but Gilbert is enjoying this play so much I can't resist leaving the room just a little off kilter. Maybe this is a test of my own tendency to fix things and this is one that just needs to be left alone to play itself out. It was incredibly interesting that with his back to me, he knew that I was making my shadow touch his shadow. You are right about a shadow causing a disturbance with him months ago. That was when I was first getting him adjusted here and I would go around the room turning off one lamp at a time in the evening as cues in our bedtime routine. I would leave one lamp on close to my chair and then he would come sit on my lap for a very short head scratch session. I turned off the wrong lamp and when my hand caused an unexpected shadow to pass over Gilbert, he bit my finger really deep. I thought it was just the motion that scared him, but you may be onto something with it being shadow related. He seems to really love his own shadow. I will be more careful not to touch his shadow. LOL. He sure has a lot of rules. I have been thinking more and more how he reminds me of Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory. I love Sheldon too. Gilbert definitely has been more expressive lately and he knows how to get his point across, no pun intended. LOL.

[katana600]

You know, for months I have been focused on reassuring Gilbert, minimizing stress and building trust. Last night David walked up to his cage while Gilbert was on the play top. Gilbert scurried right to the edge and I thought he was giving David the rush and starting the shadow game. Instead, he ran right to the edge then positioned himself for a scratch. When David gave him a little scratch he went about his business just fine. After David got ready for bed, Gilbert enticed him over with his "hey" for another scratch. Minutes later, I took the dogs out and when I came past the cage on the way back in, Gilbert chased me. I walked back to the other end of the cage and he came bouncing and running and was posturing for a tussle. I generally don't want to make any issues between him and the cage but I am noticing something different as this unfolds. He will chase me and he will come to the edge of the playtop and just hunker down and watch me. I am absolutely certain he is trying to lure me in so he can bite me. He runs around that cagetop like a little madman. He grabs whatever toy is closest to him and shakes the snot out of it. Just think, a month ago he was just barely, tentatively touching those toys and then jumping back and shivering. I am beginning to wonder if this is the beginning of tough "play". He seems to want to be a tough guy. I don't stand there looking to tick him off or provoke him, I usually just talk to him and ask what he is doing and I don't touch his cage or anything on it. But, I have noticed that afterward he is like the energizer bunny up there with more activity than he would have previously mustered in a week. I am wondering if this is a play fighting that he is learning to use to express himself. After a two minute play session, his eyes are bright and if he had an expression, it might be glee. This is all so new it is hard to find a way to interpret it but I am seeing signs that it might actually be good for him. His posture and feathers are not indicating that he is upset, he is not chewing nervously on his feathers, he just seems more vibrant and aware. I am going to tread lightly with this one and just give him a wide berth. I know darn well if he could get to me he has every intention of biting me but I can't really tell if that is because he feels safe (as in he is able to predict that I am not going to hurt him) and is playing rough or if he is getting more brazen about his cage possession. He doesn't do this with anyone but me. Conversely, if he is right in the middle of this vigilant behavior and I reach inside his cage under him, he will bow his head for a scratch. When I take my hand back outside of his cage, he goes right back to the confrontational stance and runs and shakes a toy. He really has a gleam in his eye. Minutes later, he will go inside to his favorite perch to say "hey" to entice me to come back over and scratch his head. My thoughts on it are positive, I do think he is figuring out ways of moderating his emotions and that is better than being huddled up in a quivering little statue. He definitely seems to be gaining confidence and his increased exercise seems to be doing him some good.

Edited September 13, 2012 by katana600

[Timbersmom]

That reminds me of how Timber acts with everyone but me. He seems to enjoy a "cage game" or sorts. When my husband or my son put their hand on his cage, he will lunge at it then wait until they put their hand in another spot then he will run and lunge at their hand. When we first got him, I thought this was cage possession/aggression. As time went by, I realized he was playing. Many times, he could have bitten them if that was his intent, but it doesn't seem to be. He actually bites the cage, not the hand. When my son comes in the room, Timber immediately goes to the bottom of the cage and waits for Dakota to "play" with him. if either of them actually stick their hand through the door inside the cage, he doesn't lunge or run at it. I'm not sure what Gilbert's "intent" is. I guess time will tell! They sure are interesting, and so individual in their thinking!

[katana600]

I am perplexed as to what he is doing. He called me over with his sweet talk. When I got there he ran as fast as he could and hung down over the side of the cage. He is not offering his foot to step up and I think he is trying to bite me. But, then he starts doing some gestures that look like "peek a boo" where he turns his back and then spins around really fast and bobs up and down excitedly. He is not showing any body language that looks like he is upset. He is talking sweetly all the while. I walked to the far side of his cage and he ran so fast that he couldn't stop and hit the bar of the playtop perimeter with his chest and jumped right onto the floor. He came right to me and offered a step up and now he is sitting on my lap at the computer chirping, talking and being very involved and sweet. I will keep playing it as I see it. I wouldn't intentionally agitate him for the world but if he is looking to interact more, I will play along.

[katana600]

I had to come back to see what time I posted because when Gilbert "went over the edge" he decided he wanted to be with me. We watched the Biscotti "Ride em Biscotti Bird" together. He hung out for a little while on top of his floor stand. He asked me to step up when he was on the floor stand. It has been months since he has offered me a step up unless he was being rescued from the floor. Then he got on my lap on the sofa. He climbed up and down from my chest to my toes. Once he was startled and he jumped off my feet on the ottoman but scaled the nearby wire dog crate to get high enough to jump back onto the ottoman. He finally settled on my shoulder and we both fell asleep for an hour. This is epic in our relationship. He was so sweet. He has been content before to sit for a short time, no more than fifteen minutes usually, on the back of the sofa, or the arm of my chair. This was the first time for us to be that close for this long. At one point after standing my my stocking feet and flapping, he made his way back up to where I was reclined and stood on my chest and looked me in the eye from three inches away and said "wee wee wee" and "hey". He stopped a couple of times and got warm and cozy on my tummy and I asked for a scratch. He bowed his head, but would pull back and look, then bow, then jump. He just wasn't sure about this closeness AND touching so I didn't push him. It didn't end as well as I would have hoped because it was just too darn intoxicating to ask him to go back. We both drifted off to sleep and I knocked the tv remote to the floor. The noise startled Gilbert and he lost one feather in the ensuing panic and flapping. He is happily preening in his cage and I ran to the computer to tell all of you, we have had a major breakthrough. Oh, and he pooped on me from head to toe and pooped on the sofa and I just changed my clothes, scrubbed the sofa and all is well in our world.

[danmcq]

What a HUGE step forward! After reading your last 2 posts, Gilbert has indeed shown behavior and the inner need for true closeness. The behavior you described in your first post of him " But, then he starts doing some gestures that look like "peek a boo" where he turns his back and then spins around really fast and bobs up and down excitedly. He is not showing any body language that looks like he is upset. He is talking sweetly all the while. I walked to the far side of his cage and he ran so fast that he couldn't stop and hit the bar of the playtop perimeter with his chest and jumped right onto the floor" describes a grey in loves actions and body language of wanting/needing the loved ones attention.

 

The flip side of that excited and needful behavior, is you do need to be a little cautious, as you were. Because sometimes, they may pinch or nip in the excitement. Both Dayo and Jake act like that when they see my wife enter the room and desperately want her attention and closeness. You have stepped in to the very beginning of the next level in your relationship with gilbert. Slow as you go and only on his terms so he does not feel pushed at all (I know you already know this) but this is HUGE!!!

 

I am so happy for you. You are such a patient and loving parront and set the standard for all here with similar re-homed parrots to follow. I cannot wait to here more of these types of interactions increase in frequency.

Edited September 14, 2012 by danmcq

[Timbersmom]

Woohoo! What great news Just makes your heart go pitter-patter doesn't it?

[katana600]

My yes, my heart was going pitter patter and it wasn't entirely from the awe and joy either. He came quickly toward my face at one point and tilted his head looking at me and it was hard to have faith that it was curiousity and not a prelude to a cobra strike. I just talked to him and he did a few of what we refer to as smart-alec retorts. One is from last year, the "wee wee weee" of the little pig in the Geico commercials. The other is kind of new. He says "wier", it is bit of a cross between a started cat and an in-your-face comeback. We are all doing it now. David says when he is in a big meeting and the boss is being a little "prickly" he is going to give him one of those. Wier. There is just no comeback for it except another wier. Gilbert will hear all of us on the screen porch and sometimes start up that game. Also, sometimes he asks for a cracker and what he really wants is an almond and if we give him anything but an almond, he gives us the wier. Thanks Dan, I learned everything I am trying to apply to Gilbert from the advice on this forum. Every situation and every older grey is a new case study, but Gilbert is slowly coming around and I think that is because he takes a long time to get comfortable and although his past shapes that, it is also his innate cautiousness and personality. When anyone brings home a grey of any age, but moreso with the older ones, giving them room and letting them lead the way in the relationship is something they need. It is a long road, no rush to get over the grey speed limit. Slow and steady brings great rewards.

[katana600]

After such a successful interaction the previous evening, I tried again last night. Gilbert was at first having none of it. He does so much better when I am the only one home and there are no other noises or distractions to keep him on guard. I offered a step up and he went up the cagetop in his battle position. I walked away and tried again, nothing doing. Since I really wanted to continue on the momentum of the previous exchange, I took a rope perch to him that looks just like the favorite on his cage door. He countered by running inside and hanging from the bars on his "ceiling". He was definitely retreating but there was none of the usual flapping, squawking or thrashing about in a panic that someone was surely trying to take his life. Usually, I back off but this time, I just kept gently advancing and lo and behold, he stepped up on the rope. He let me draw him out through the big open door and I brought him to my lap on the sofa again. This time he was curious, but definitely more skittish. He would run down the fleece blanket on my legs and perch on my toes. I guess he figured that is as far away from me and as high as he could get. When I would reach down and offer him a step up, he obliged, but I have to admit, I know it was wishful thinking on his part that I was offering him a lift back to his safety zone in the cage. We continued for a half hour, he was chatty and pleasant but he would lean and look at his cage. At least he wasn't pleading with me "wanna go back?". We quit on a positive note, I asked if he wanted to go back and he got so excited, leaning and swaying toward his cage that I knew I had to follow through. By this evening when we try again, he will be onto me with the ole rope trick, so we will probably have to try something entirely new.