Shoulder Sitting

[Mort's Dad]

Hi,

 

I have read quite a bit of contradictory advice with respect to height dominance etc and was wondering what folks thought of it/had experience of.

 

My intention had been (as per my reading) to keep Mort at chest level, carrying him on an arm or hand ... ah the best laid plans of mice and men.

 

Basically he has taken, very politely, to walking up my and my wife's arm and sitting/leaning quite happily - with me it seems to be because I need extensive grooming/ear adjustments my wife and son seem to be more a mode of inter-room transport or portable vantage point (daughter is too nervous still and he seems to respect that she is a no-fly zone). He does occasionally swoop onto shoulders but we are trying to make it invitation only!

 

 

Is it a bad idea to allow him to continue with this? As I said I have read about height dominance but he seems very relaxed and will come down if asked - he seems quite happy to fly down onto his play stand or onto his cage top (in fact any excuse to come or go).

 

He is very good natured and happy to snuggle up on peoples lap, even allowing a towel wrap, but don't want to set up any bad habbits if I can help it so any thoughts would be appreciated

[Birdnut]

A highly respected bird trainer, Barbara Heidenreich, has said that there is nothing to the height dominance issue. I would not worry about height dominance.

 

Whether you can allow Mort on the shoulder depends on Mort and whether he can behave properly there. So far, it sounds like he's doing fine with it. If he shows any tendency to bite or threaten ears or face, you will, of course, have to bar him from shoulders.

 

It would be ideal if you can manage an invitation only discipline .... good luck

[Luvparrots]

Poo, poo to the height dominance. Unfortunately my grey loves to nibble my ears so she and I have a running battle about the nibble part. She is getting much better and has stopped nibbling for now, so we will see. She does love to sit on my shoulder and give me kisses on my cheek. Mort sounds like a lovely grey just like my sweet Ana Grey. Congratulations on finding a sweet grey and kudos to you and your family for giving him a wonderful forever home!

[birdhouse]

Ahh, the plan. By now you may have begun to suspect that the plan can often be most useful for comic relief. But we got to keep trying, right?

 

If nothing else, height dominance is real in the sense of, "You can't get me!!" In the case of shoulders, it's harder to fetch them down & easier for them to scoot out of reach or bite whenever they don't want to cooperate.

 

Some of my birds sit on my shoulder & are fine. Others weren't. So they eventually got banned.

 

If you're comfortable with Mort on your shoulder, that's up to you. If you really want to teach him to stay on your arm, hand, whatever, then you'll have to outlast him in a contest of will. Just keep politely heading him off whenever he starts to climb. He may well get grumpy & more determined, but just be consistent. And it might be easiest to make this a habit now, while he's so young.

 

Also, he's probably looking to snuggle into the warmth & protection of the crook of your neck, especially right now. So you might want to teach him to settle in the crook of your arm, up against your body as an alternative.

[judygram]

I allow all three of my birds on my shoulder even my grey as she will behave herself and comes down when asked and that is the important thing, if you have a bird that just wants to nibble on your ears and other features of your face then you are better off not allowing it and the sooner the better as they get more set in their ways as they get mature. Some people are just not comfortable with their grey on their shoulder and if that is the case then shoulder sitting is a no no, you have to be comfortable with it.

[Ray P]

My Africa grey Corky and my Blue Fronted Amazon Cricket both love to sit on my shoulder and they will stay there for hours but they know that if they don`t behave that they will be moved to a T stand or anouther location. The only bird I worried about was my zon but she turned out too be the sweetest bird and loves just to be by me and perch on my shoulder.

Cricket came with issues 2 years ago but they have all gone away.

[KimKim]

My grey loves to ride on my shoulder. I only had one incident, I was on the computer, he was on my shoulder, I forgot he was there and saw a feather on my shirt in the corner of my eye so I blow it off... then he showed me he was still there and bit my nose! not quite as bad as Timmy did to his owner but I did have a little tiny scab. My fault, I scared him.

[Elvenking]

You either have a shoulder bird or you don't, but from what I ahve read...no dominance issues. Issac loves my shoulder and riding around and I could never think of taking his place there away from him. He is pretty well behaved there and seems to make it his destication anytime I get up to move somewhere in the house. Some ahve problems with clothes chewing and such...but that can be tamed...and if not...in the end...just not a shoulder bird. In addition, a bird being flighted or clipped has a lot of influence here too. If your bird has the choice of flying...he may make your sholder his destination. If he\she is clipped...may not have the choice...and given the chance....might just want to be mischevious when given the chance. And all permutations from there. You just have to determine how it works for you. Issac was climbing my chest up to a cozy place by my head at his earliest age of 9 weeks. I loved it and have let him be there ever since.

 

As others have surly said, you always run the risk of a startled moment where you might get bit. You just have to experiment and decide. But no need to obey hight rules as far as I have seen with my Grey, Issac.

[danmcq]

Dayo is a permanent shoulder attachment. He will give a little nip (Pinch)every so often if angry, but you learn to read their moods and also come to know what they are upto by the slightest shift in weight you feel in their Talons. I just bite him back giving proper birdy body language feedback when he nips. Just kidding!

[Birdnut]

Moussa has shoulder privileges and will continue to do so unless he shows me he can't behave. So far, he's been very good.

[Guest Kali_the_Destroyer]

I've kept birds for 25 years, and I've never had a problem with them sitting on my shoulder, although I'd rather they didn't 'nest' in my hair

 

They all come down when asked, go in their cage when asked etc. Mind you, I instil good manners and rules from day one.

[Buffy]

Both of my fids love to sit on my shoulder too. I've read so many negative articles about it that I've always kind of thought of it as 'my dirty little secret' and don't mention it to other bird people. I'm so excited to read all of these posts and realize I'm not a horrible parent!

[Ray P]

When the strength in the relationship and bond becomes so strong sharing your shoulder is a great thing and it`s natural. Enjoy.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Ray P

[judygram]

When the strength in the relationship and bond becomes so strong sharing your shoulder is a great thing and it`s naturnal. Enjoy.

 

Very well put Ray, I agree.

[Mort's Dad]

Excellent responses from all ... very much appreciated.

 

Even though he is sometimes reluctant to come off of my shoulder from time to time (and likes to land there uninvited every so often!) I still feel comfortable both physically and with the 'relationship'.

 

While I do respect the academic/behavioral authors, the real-life perspectives from the thread (kudos to Buffy for 'outing' her self ) are exactly why I joined the forum.

 

I like to think I am pretty good at taking in a lot of info and sifting it for value and perspective - the responses have been invaluable in that.

 

In short I plan (yes it's another plan!) is to allow Mort shoulder privileges but monitor his attitude and behavior ... he is a very cuddle bird and likes to plan his head into my neck (particularly good for head rubbing if I haven't shaved apparently) and I wouldn't want to lose that link. I think I will work on getting him to step down from my shoulder even if it is just for a couple of minutes so that he (hopefully) gets that his human perch is not a right!

 

Again thanks for the views and have a good Xmas - hope you and the birds get nice things from Santa

[shanlung]

Food for thought for anyone contemplating to allow birdie on shoulder.

 

If birdie do not get off shoulder when asked, that birdie has no right to be on the shoulder.

Certain line must be drawn in the sand and not to be crossed for good long term relationship.

 

Or both birdie and you will pay the penalty, and that will not be good for either.

 

 

Take care.

 

And if you really do care, read

Parrot on shoulder - being gentle

Parrot on shoulder - being gentle

 

Notwithstanding I wrote above in 2003, I still think what I wrote then hold true even now.

 

and

 

shanlung: Tinkerbell Legacy - - Rant 03 (a flighted parrot mentality) & Understanding the mind of your grey