Is this food alright?

[Shades Of Grey]

I bought my three year old adopted grey home today. He is settling well and is already talking and stepping up. I am very pleased with him! The current owner had him on pellets called "pretty bird African special" as well as some type of seed mix with pellets. I already plan on switching his mix to Hagen gourmet large parrot fruit and nut mix. I have my conure on the small parrot mix (as well as Lafebers pellets and fresh food) and I am very happy with the quality. My concern is the pellets. They are supposed to be formulated for greys but they are colored which is not great. I guess he is doing well on them though. When his previous owner got him at a year old his chest was plucked clean. (this is the third rehome! ) In the last two years his feathers have grown in nicely and he no longer plucks. Maybe I shouldn't mess with a good thing but I also heard that "pretty bird" is not that great of a food. I am heading to Petsmart today or tomorrow and I wonder if I should pick up something else to try or stick with what he has. His current food has to be specially ordered and he will be running out of the amount he came with so I need to make a decision. I guess I will have to mix any new food in slowly anyway so I have to atleast order a small bag of the pretty bird food. I only have zupreem (natural and fruit), lafebers, tropimix and the pretty bird that I order from a pet store.

Any suggestions?

 

pretty bird african special information:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6128

[Jayd]

Thank you again for taking on this baby.

[Dave007]

There's nothing wrong with Pretty Bird. All the different brand pellets sold are basically the same thing--different shapes, different designs and about 95% of them are all colored and the coloring has nothing in it that will hurt a bird.

 

"""""I already plan on switching his mix to Hagen gourmet large parrot fruit and nut mix.""""""

 

That's not a good idea because of 3 reasons

1--The bird already has established a food that it likes. He's not a baby anymore and so far, he's lived pretty well on his present diet.

2--There's no guarantee that the bird will take to a different brand just because you think it's better.

3-- large parrot -------A grey isn't classified as a large parrot and the items in the large size may not be able to be chewed up and broken. A grey needs a medium sized mix. Pretty Bird and also Zupreem have medium sized pellets.

 

Don't be fooled by the word *Gourmet*.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Dave007

[Jayd]

To start off with, Dave, I'm sorry, but this isn't against you or any kind of disrespect, just my opinion!!

 

If you read any of my post's, these have always been my feelings, nothing more....This site has Brand Names http://www.fluffies.org/en/parrot-and-parakeet-food-and-diets_pellets-and-their-poisonous-ingredients-vt218.html

 

 

http://www.internationalparrotletsociety.org/pellet.html

 

This is just one item included in many pellets:

 

Ethoxyquin 6-ethoxy-1,2-dihydro-2,2,4-trimethylquinoline. Antioxidant; also a post-harvest dip to prevent scald on apples and pears.

Originally developed by Monsanto as a stabilizer for rubber, Ethoxyquin has also been used as a pesticide for fruit and a color preservative for spices, and later for animal feed.

The original FDA permit for use as stabilizer in animal feed limited use to two years and did not include pet food, but it falls under the same legal category. It has never been proven to be safe for the lifespan of a companion animal.

It has been linked to thyroid, kidney, reproductive and immune related illnesses as well as cancer, but so far no conclusive, reliable research results either for the safety of this product or against it has not been obtained.

Monsanto conducted research years ago, but results were so inconclusive due to unprofessional conduct and documentation that the FDA demanded another study. There are currently several studies underway to determine whether Ethoxyquin is safe or not, and until those studies are completed, pet food suppliers may continue to use Ethoxyquin. This is how things stand after about 6 years, and no new details have emerged so far.

Ethoxyquin is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical by OSHA. It has a rating of 3 on a scale of 1 to 6, with 6 being super toxic requiring less than 7 drops to cause death. When manufactured by Monsanto, the containers are marked with the word POISON. Monsanto makes no representations and will not be responsible for damages of any nature whatsoever. The Department of Agriculture lists and controls Ethoxyquin as a pesticide.

Promotes kidney carcinogenesis.Significantly increases incidence of stomach tumors.Enhances bladder carcinogenesis. (Good for your parrots' health?)

[judygram]

I feed my grey Harrisons High Potency pellets as most avian vets recommend it and she eats them regularly but Dave is right you shouldn't change the pellets from what he is eating now, keep him on the same ones and then later you can gradually start mixing in another brand until he is eating only the kind you want to feed him. Right now he is adjusting to as new home with new owners and everything is new to him so you shouldn't do anything else to upset him now.

[Jayd]

Judy and Dave are right, Harrisons High Potency pellets, Top's, and Zupreem Natural are excellent foods.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Jayd
edited by Talon, due to an uncalled for comment

[Shades Of Grey]

Thanks guys. I assumed it was too soon to switch foods but I just want the best for my new fid. I will probably be looking at Zupreem naturals down the road. he is in great health and feather for a former plucker! I went and got the fruit and nut mix today as well. He is enjoying that. I bought a ton of toys that I will introduce really slowly as well. He's not overly timid in nature which is great. I can't believe how fast he is settling in. Hes vying for my attention at the moment LOL.

[Shades Of Grey]

There's nothing wrong with Pretty Bird. All the different brand pellets sold are basically the same thing--different shapes, different designs and about 95% of them are all colored and the coloring has nothing in it that will hurt a bird.

 

"""""I already plan on switching his mix to Hagen gourmet large parrot fruit and nut mix.""""""

 

That's not a good idea because of 3 reasons

1--The bird already has established a food that it likes. He's not a baby anymore and so far, he's lived pretty well on his present diet.

2--There's no guarantee that the bird will take to a different brand just because you think it's better.

3-- large parrot -------A grey isn't classified as a large parrot and the items in the large size may not be able to be chewed up and broken. A grey needs a medium sized mix. Pretty Bird and also Zupreem have medium sized pellets.

 

Don't be fooled by the word *Gourmet*.

 

That is reassuring that pretty bird pellets are alright to give him. I ended up getting the fruit nut seed mix before I read your reply. I was out today. He is actually enjoying it right now and I am mixing it with parts of his current seed mix. Its just a small supplement that I provide once a day on his gym for some protein and fat. It's for his size, nothing huge in it that would be meant for a macaw or anything. There is a grey on the bag I hope that it's alright for him to have. I don't intend for it to replace his pellets and fresh food diet.

[Dave007]

That's good that you spotted the grey. No matter which one you pick, if you spot a grey or amazon or Ekkie on the bag, then it's the right size. Most bags have pictures on them.

[tarm]

Do not many people make their own mashes on here rather than pellets for a base and then add varying fresh foods?

[venom]

i make my own mash for mine, that way i know shes getting her veg, she loves it, i just knock up a batch, freeze it in ice cube trays, then pop them out 20 seconds in micro & there done, i always say to her ," i want some mash" when im taking her to it , hopefully she will tell me when she wants some once she can talk !! well thats the idea anyway lol, as for fruit thats in her feeder, in the other feeder is kaytee chunky pellets, she eats everything no problem at all, i decided to just feed her everything while she was young (only 12 weeks at the moment) , my thinking was if i do this now she wont be a fussy eater when older, dunno if it will work though !!!

[judygram]

Yes a lot of us make mashes for our fids but we also provide a good pellet brand along with fresh veggies and such. I leave pellets in Josey's cage at all times replenishing when needed so that she can snack on them all day and even at night if she so desires. Pellets do not take the place of good mashes or vice versa, it is a supplement to their mash and fresh foods.

[tarm]

OK that makes much more sense then. I have just seen a number of posts where pellets make the majority of the base food. The thing I can see to be concerned with, along with chemicals snuck in there, is : Most of these pellets are made up using non organic chemical based vitamins and minerals to provide the full amount needed daily by our birds. We all know the body does not absorbed these as readily so the amounts have to be increased which is fine if they have it correct. Even with it being the correct balance of supplements the body still has to process all of those byproducts from the increased amounts needed to get a faction of the total to be absorbed. As much of it is not absorbed it must be processed out of the body which puts the work load on the bird's organs such as the kidneys and liver. It is also dead food. I think mashes in combo with fresh live assortment and varied foods gets your bird all its needs and much more of the live and natural vitamins that no supplement can. I guess my thinking is I would rather my bird to get more live foods to get the nutrients it needs than to take up food space with dead foods using inorganic supplements.

 

I really like the USDA food nutritional info database site. It breaks down in detail both macro and micro nutritional content for just about ever food and in a number of forms i.e. cooked , raw frozen, etc.. You really know what your bird is getting in the foods you supply it.

 

 

Is there a area on this forum where people post there recipes for the mashes, seed mix, fruit and veg salad mixes, etc..?

 

I have modified a recipe MS Access database to work for our birds various foods. I have added attachment links to including the actual detailed nutritional break down of not only each ingredient in its amount called for in the recipe but also the combined total of the finished recipe. It can then easily be divided by the actual daily serving amount to give the daily break down of all individual nutrients. This is also great if you ever have a set nutritional profile you want to follow or want to make a substitution of one ingredient for something else you can find the food and amount that will work or combination there of to reach the replacement amount. If you need to increase certain nutrients it will allow you to choose portion to get the wanted dose of a particular nutrient/s.

 

If people want to post up recipes they use or have created I can enter them into my database, look up and attach the USDA nutrient data and can post the actual nutritional data. If I get a daily or serving portion I can further break it down to that. Figured that might be of some help to people and I would offer it up. Right now I am just about finished with Mike's Manna Mash. Hope to get it done tonight. That is a long list of ingredients and what I plan to use for my mash. But I will then start inputting and looking up other recipes I have found such as some from Pamela Clark and others I found searching. It takes some time but I think it will be nice to have recipes and there nutritional value there to use as wanted. They also will give ideas of some nutrients that may only be provided by certain foods in a birds diet. Also gaps or missing things.

[Jayd]

Right now I am just about finished with Mike's Manna Mash. Hope to get it done tonight. That is a long list of ingredients and what I plan to use for my mash.

My area of study since late last year has been Parrot food and nutrition. We have worked with 5 avian vet, plus a number of C.A.S. [A book is in the works] The one main thing of importance we learned was, "Not how much, or how many different ingredient are combined, but what the ingredient are combined With and in what percentage"...The following receipt gives "our fids" What they need for a completely nutritious diet. As you can see both pellets and seeds are included, but in a small amount, nuts also being of great importance, supplying EFA's [Essential Fatty Acids]. [if my fids would eat Harrison's I'd include it and be really happy] We remove or add ingredient for the difference bird species. ie: 'Tiels less fruit, Zon's less fat etc. The seeds we use are "Tops, Totally Organic's" [which I'll make a report about at a later date]. The basis behind what this diet is composed of is that each ingredient works with each other to bring out the best of all ingredients. To repeat myself, This works for me". You can make a thread in "Bird Food".

 

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190462-We-Feed-Our-Fid-s!!!-Update

[Jayd]

As a side note, not everyone has the time to prepare a Smash or Mash, but still want what is best for their companion. With that said, Harrison's, TOP'S, Zupreem, and a few others, with fresh Veggies, Fruit's, etc, will also contribute to a long and healthy life...There's a lot more then just food to maintain our Fid's....

Jayd

[danmcq]

My area of study since late last year has been Parrot food and nutrition. We have worked with 5 avian vet, plus a number of C.A.S. [A book is in the works] The one main thing of importance we learned was, "Not how much, or how many different ingredient are combined, but what the ingredient are combined With and in what percentage"...

 

Now this is an interesting study!

 

How are the results being quantified? Are the vets participating taking blood samples to establish the results of these various combined foods and logging it for each Parrot type?

 

I really look forward to following this as the results come in on a per species, mix, quantity basis.

 

Thanks for sharing this.

[Jayd]

Now this is an interesting study!

How are the results being quantified? Are the vets participating taking blood samples to establish the results of these various combined foods and logging it for each Parrot type?

I really look forward to following this as the results come in on a per species, mix, quantity basis.

Thanks for sharing this.

 

Dan, You've been following Spock's progress since the start. I'm sure many of the new members are not even aware of who Spock is, or the access I have to many different types of birds. The research we've been doing is "Grass Root", It's more of "What's in the food or Veggies or fruit, how much of what, what has the most of what vitamin, how much and how many Amino acids etc.

This you will not find, Quote:I really look forward to following this as the results come in on a per species, mix, quantity basis.Un-Quote..I'm not doing "Per Bird" I'm doing the food our birds eat!

Forgive me, but I thought you were aware all along that I was working in conjunction with my Vet's. A example: Sweet potato's have all most the same amount of "Beta-carotene's". Beta-carotene is a non-toxic form of a precursor of vitamin A. When ingested, the body turns what it needs into vitamin A and the rest passes out of the body unchanged. The carotenoids are found in several plant pigments. My findings come from many valid reliably sources, Mainly from Vet's, dietitians, and Study and research, and also my personal feelings. As some of you might be aware, Spock has Hypoglycemia, Whith the help of others, I came up with this diet, and it has helped give Spock a more normal diet. If anyone is interested in this, look up, Spock updates etc.

To repeat myself, This works for me! I'm not pushing this off as a Law, or you Must feed this way, and I won't ever say: If you want your bird to be healthy, use my Mash! like others do...It's my opinion from my findings.....

Thanks

Jayd

[danmcq]

Sorry, I guess I just read it as a "Study" was being done by the CAS.

 

I certainly am familiar with Spock's blood sugar issue. It seems you are doing a great job of getting that under control. It certainly requires a different and closely monitored diet than a bird without this issue.

[Jayd]

Sorry, I guess I just read it as a "Study" was being done by the CAS.

I certainly am familiar with Spock's blood sugar issue. It seems you are doing a great job of getting that under control. It certainly requires a different and closely monitored diet than a bird without this issue.

A lot of the contributions come from a 2 CAS's. The basic differences between Spock's diet and the basic diet is Spock get's additional carb's, just the same as the Zon's, less fat and hyacinths Macaws, more seeds, less protein and Grey's requirements for higher fat and protiein, the list goes on... ...According to some Dr's, certain foods draw out or make better use of their nutrients when combined with certain other foods, that's why I say, "Not how much, or how many different ingredient are combined, but what the ingredient are combined with and in what percentage" ..... Thanks

Jayd

[tarm]

YES!!!! This is just the stuff and useful kind of data I love. I actually have a background in nutrition and physical exercise/ training but the human kind not bird. I completely understand and agree with your statement of the key being correct combination of nutrients in proper amounts than that of the actual total amount of the food itself. It is why most multi vita/min packs or tab on the market today are largely self defeating. One key area though that I think points to it being a very good practice to type to keep variety as high as possible given no conflicts is there is still so much we do not understand about the phytonutreints and biological activity of the minute compounds contained in many live foods. Its sad science spends so much time creating new synthetic chemicals and compounds and they do not even know many nature has already created or how/what they can do / be used for. Who knows how many have been lost for ever with the destruction of ancient forests and regions.

 

Judy on the recipe provided in the linked thread can I assume you have the nutrient break down already done? I only ask as I woudl be glad to do it for you if not. Also in your work on nutritional needs or possibly already created is there a recommended or ideal daily intake breakdown of nutrients? I fully understand the need for correct combos to allow proper use and absorption but I wondered if there is a ideal daily allowance chart anyone had done the work on for our Greys. I do not mean to be trending on any kind of proprietary info or for you to give up info that may have coming for long hard work that you have plans for but if there is any info on certain combos that have been found to complement each other in a nutritional sense I am all ears. Links to research or other info on this subject as it pertains to parrots would be great as well. I seem to have a genetic propensity towards acting as a human sponge when it comes to wanting to absorb as much info as possible on subjects that interest me nor I have a need to learn.It is also

Edited August 2, 2010 by tarm

[judygram]

Judy on the recipe provided in the linked thread can I assume you have the nutrient break down already done? I only ask as I woudl be glad to do it for you if not.

 

I don't really have a recipe of my own as I use a variation of some of those here in the threads but no I do not have the nutrient break down, if you could do that with the recipes here then that would be great.

[tarm]

Will do. Hopefully should have done tomorrow whihc is actually today I guess at this point. Eventually I am going to have to try this thing people have told me feels good. They call it sleep.

Edited August 2, 2010 by tarm

[tarm]

OK here is what I complied for your morning and evening mash meal recipe of:

 

Yum, they gets, Yellow or Red Sweet-potato, [cut, put in pan, fill 1/2 full with water, cook till mushy] then we add to 1 tbsp: Natural unsweetened Applesauce, or, mashed Fresh Pear,[1 thin slice], or, 1 slice of Banana, to this we ad 1/4 teasp of "Natural Peanut Butter" [skippys], mix it all together, warm it in a microwave,[under 110 degrees]. This is served on a saucer along with: 1 tbsp each of lightly cooked, Lentils, Split Peas,[yellow or green] Orzo and Star pasta, and 4-10 Cooked plain Garbanzo beans

 

I figured it would be easier to use in excel than pasting it all into the post:

 

Jay's Smash

 

Guess I better get a little bit of shut eye as sun is coming up in a couple hours..

 

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

Edited August 4, 2010 by tarm

[Jayd]

tarm, thank you very much, but this is our fids Smash.LOL......Jayd

Edited August 2, 2010 by Jayd

[tarm]

Oh shoot. That's what I get for working on it too late at night. I will edit my post and the xls. I was having conversations with the both of you and I got all back-to-front. It was not too bad doing it. IT was about even in time of pulling the info and putting it into a spreadsheet. I have adobe acrobat pro whihc is a huge help as I can convert the web output to a PDF and then pull as a chart spreadsheet function into xls. Then its some moving around and a sum formula. Well let me go fix my naming issues. LOL Sorry Jay