Compromise?

[Crystine]

I have had my Grey Monkey for two years. I love her so much, but as she grew older she began to abuse her power of flight. When I first brought her home, I resolved to keep her flighted because I felt she would be happiest. And she has developed incredible skills, and has some independence. But, she was very hard to train because she was fully flighted; she could fly away whenever she wanted to. She could land on my mother just to poop on her, then fly away. She seemed to feel that she did not have to behave. I could not build my relationship with my bird because she could fly. I tried to do the right thing and let her have her freedom, but it seemed more and more like she was on a huge power trip....as a last resort (and I mean LAST RESORT), I decided to clip her wings for the first time about two weeks ago (I have owned birds before and have been taught to clip wings at home. No worries, Monkey did fine and I was quick and painless with her ). Now, don't get me wrong, she is not by any means grounded. The clip is quite long and she can still fly, and she may still go from room to room as she pleases. With the clip, it is simply a bit more difficult.

I have been especially kind to my sweet bird to help her get used to the clip. Now as a result of clipping, Monkey seems much more quiet and docile. She does not talk or sing as much, and she has not bitten anyone since her clipping. I did want her to see that she is my equal and friend, not my superior, but the suddenness of her change is disturbing. She sleeps more in the daytime and goes for hours without making a sound. She eats less. She obeys more often, but it seems like she submits only because she hasn't the will to argue. It is strange to me that she would be so listless even though she can still fly...I am not in the least frustrated with her, only concerned. She is a little more perky now than she was last week, so she may be coming to terms......do you guys think this is a common reaction? I am worried.

[Jayd]

I'm so sad, sorry, there were other way's to have handled this problem. Wish you would have posted a thread, you would have received some Grey'T answers. My opinion, you have to wait to see how much Monkey will recover. A Grey never forgets!!! It's done, you'll find a lot of help here from some good people. I've seen to many times what can happen when flying Grey's wings get clipped.Good luck Crystine! Good luck Monkey, love ya... Jayd Thanks for posting!!!

[Crystine]

...A grey never forgets. So my bird will never forgive me. I remember posting that to clip her wings a little bit was a "last resort". I tried everything to train her and to build our relationship, but she was NOT having any of it...I would never make a decision like that in haste or in anger, not about the baby I raised, and I would never take flight away from her altogether.

[Luvparrots]

I'm sorry what did you expect Monkey to do. You wanted her to "mind" you and not be willful. Well you said she was now docile and quiet so what did you want??? I'm sorry you broken her spirit and her trust, perhaps some day she will forgive you.

[Jane08]

Very common reaction. I also wish you had visited the forum earlier to ask for advice. Many of us have been through what you describe and especially at the age that monkey is at, it's a very difficult age. She wasn't on a power trip, she was 2 years old and pushing the boundaries, seeing what she could do, developing herself.

 

Anyway saying that it is done now and you will just have to be patient with monkey and I hope you decide to let the feathers grow out again so she can get back her flying skills. They really are easy to trian when they are flighted and they love to learn as well.

[danmcq]

Sorry to hear about the clip. As Jane said, what's done is done.

 

Boy do I remember the terrible two's. Actually, my grey started getting frisky like a typical out of control human teenager when he was about 18 months old. Everything was a struggle and testing of what was ok, what could he get away with and for how long. I suppose he had to learn IF the resulting ignorance, stop in play or possibly a short time out in the cage was worth his actions and how much he enjoyed them.

 

At any rate, if your grey is going through the terrible two's. The shock of the clip will pass and the attitude will remain. I suspect since he will not be able to fly away as well, biting, or trying to, will start becoming a more common reaction.

 

I suspect your grey is both shocked at the apparent attack by his loved and trusted one, as well as depressed. It will pass and the closeness may change a little. That's really an unknown as every grey reacts differenty to each circumstance.

 

I do hope you stay around and leverage the knowledge you'll find here on this forum to help you through the next coming weeks and months.

[Elvenking]

I would say that if there is a scale for level of difficulty in owning a pet, an African Grey would be very high up on that scale. What you describe sounds quite chaotic and you must have been put through a lot in order to break down and clip your baby. I know there are times that i am feeling like I am getting taken advantage of when Issac has got a bug up his butt and he wants to fly all over the place making pterodactyl sounds. He has certainly done the land-poop and fly away act plenty of times. There are also times he will get into everything he shouldn't, and it's not always in my most patient moments. He will sometimes get all hyper and nip at my ears (fairly rare). Raising a Grey is seriously hard business and I learn a bit more every day.

 

That said, I would love to hear what you should have done from experts who think they may have been able to make that manageable. Is there a way to show them that rambunctious behaviour is not tollerated? Because I was under the impression that I just have to deal with the occasional wild bird syndrome. And that I will probably never find a woman who will love both me and my bird. LOL.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Elvenking

[jessdecutie18]

And that I will probably never find a woman who will love both me and my bird. LOL.

 

LOL Elvenking You will I'm sure! Unfortunately my husband isn't that into birds and only puts up with Yoshi these days I've mentioned getting another and he decidedly says "No way in hell"... I'm hoping to wear him down eventually I'd love an Amazon...

[jessdecutie18]

Crystine, I'm so sorry that you are going through a difficult time with your baby! Believe me, I understand what you are going through. A while back, I had a quaker parrot, and I've told the story on here before, but she got completely out of control also. Out of desperation, and after a ton of other efforts, I felt the best thing to do would be to clip. I learn't how, and did it myself, also leaving her able to glide without taking full capability away. It made me so sad to see this happening with my wonderful bird. I loved her so much! But I have to say, the clip did nothing good. She was quiet and reserved for about a week, then the wanting to stay in the cage and biting me started big time. Clipping did nothing good, it truelly made her resent me...

 

I talk about this as this is so close to home for me. I loved my quaker to death, but ended up giving her away to a more experienced person, who has since done a much better job with her than I ever did. I was young and inexperienced. Birds go through crazy times, they get a little 'naughty'. They don't try to make you upset, they just need to know their limits. A bird's ability to fly is so central to who they are. Their confidence, their spirit, their abilities grow with it. Clipping is a terrible thing and I say that as someone who has clipped and suffored the consequences.

 

Now, feathers do grow back! Yoshi, my TAG, was clipped after her first flight, after I'd already paid for her and was about to take her home. I was so angry! But now, a year and a half old, she is getting some new feathers in and is learning to glide across the hallway and into my arms. With this new ability, I've already seen a big boost in her confidence! She never even got to understand what those little wings could do! It's great and I can tell she loves it.

 

I pray your baby will forgive you, I honestly think she will with a little time and patience. But, as others said, your behavioral troubles are not over. I haven't reached that stage with Yoshi really so I think that's best left to someone else to help you with. I'll be interested to hear what happens over the next few weeks for you, for sure!

[Elvenking]

Again, I would ask what you could do in a situation like that? If you had to do it over again, how would have you handled a percievably overly energetic and mischevious bird?

[Jayd]

Again, I would ask what you could do in a situation like that? If you had to do it over again, how would have you handled a percievably overly energetic and mischevious bird?

My Friend Hello... Here's a currant Thread on Clipping and wild behavior. Jayd

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190366-At-wits-end-and-need-advice

[danmcq]

Again, I would ask what you could do in a situation like that? If you had to do it over again, how would have you handled a percievably overly energetic and mischevious bird?

 

OK, I have to admit, I had a few moments during the 18th month through most of the two's, that at times I felt like clipping to stop some behaviors as mentioned by others, but didn't. Through the help of Dave and others, I learned to deal with playful and outright attacks by simply shooing him away with my arms when I saw him coming at me. So did my wife and other visitors I instructed to do so IF they saw him coming. I must say though, Dayo was never actually hit, he would turn quickly or fly over. After remaining consistant at this for at least 2 months, he stopped doing it unless I pissed him off by taking somthing away he could not have. That has stopped as well.... for the last few months. It's just a matter of learning how to deal with it from others that have been there and done that successfully.

[Crystine]

Wow that thread Jayd posted sounds so familiar! But waaaaay better explained, haha. Thank you for posting it. Monkey talked some and she flew around more today...not much progress, but progress all the same. Thank you for replying, you all are a great support system.

[Elvenking]

OK, I have to admit, I had a few moments during the 18th month through most of the two's, that at times I felt like clipping to stop some behaviors as mentioned by others, but didn't. Through the help of Dave and others, I learned to deal with playful and outright attacks by simply shooing him away with my arms when I saw him coming at me. So did my wife and other visitors I instructed to do so IF they saw him coming. I must say though, Dayo was never actually hit, he would turn quickly or fly over. After remaining consistant at this for at least 2 months, he stopped doing it unless I pissed him off by taking somthing away he could not have. That has stopped as well.... for the last few months. It's just a matter of learning how to deal with it from others that have been there and done that successfully.

 

You seem to follow a very similar pattern with your grey as I do mine. I always have faith that a simple non invasive negative response..they can learn from...just so long as it separates them from what they want will have a desired effect. Sometimes he will bite my hand if I am not being so attentive or not bringing him to where he wants to go or taking him away from something he shouldn't chew...I just kind of fling him up a bit and make him fly away. If he is getting nippy, I will just duck or shoo. It can be kinda fun if yer in a good mood. Let me not forget, this is the same bird that loves to let me scratch him all the time, kiss him lots..even on his soft chest...makes the sweetest sounds and just always wants to be where I am, and for some reason is horny for my toes. I think I can take some of the bad with the good. So long as you can get an indicator on their mood and have your wits about you, you can give the proper response...I always seem to know when Issac is going to be in one of those moods. I love him undefinably.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Elvenking

[Elvenking]

My Friend Hello... Here's a currant Thread on Clipping and wild behavior. Jayd

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190366-At-wits-end-and-need-advice

 

Thanks JayD for the link..that is a great post.

[tarm]

The good news is feather grow back.

 

What were all the various things you tried before deciding to do this?

 

How long did you spend trying these things before deciding they did not work?

 

In hind site given many people have been able to train fully flighted birds including greys you may want to look at things you could have done or tried.

 

Did you enlist the help of a professional avian trainer?

 

What about a avian behavoralist?

 

Did you ask on the forums to get the opinions of things to try from other owners that may have been thru it?