To clip or not to clip?

[Keywe]

kimkim... not sure if you have a prefilter on it or not, but it will make the regular filter last much longer... I don't think it comes with one, but you can get a piece of filter at home depot and cut it to fit... the regular filter doesn't really get dirty because of it... the cleaner has cut down the dander and feather output in keywe's room by 1000%!!! i have it drawing air away from the main opening into her room..seems to be the best location for it, right next to her cage. i think it helps her to sleep more soundly at night too because of the noise...she doesn't get as spooked over all the little things she might hear.

[scoutndizzy]

Hehe it sounds like my green cheek conure. Because I do take her out to the local PetCoSmart (they all kinda run together in my mind after a while), my green cheek was clipped. I say was because within 2-3 months, she had plucked out ALL of her clipped flight feathers and let regular flight feathers grow back so that she could fly. So clipping doesn't always work if your fid can find a way around it... ;-)

[Guest]

Awww! Handsome boy! And I don't think his one new feather looks silly at all! The expression on his face is adorable, as if he is saying, "What? What do you want? I am just getting a little something from my bowl, now let me be!" And glad the neti pot helped! Very glad!

[jeanna]

I can't wait for Jasper to molt and grow out his flight feathers. My old conure was flighted and it was so fun to call out to him in some random room and have him fly around the house looking for me. Jasper will only be outside in his harness and I'll probably get the longer leash for it to do recall training and such. There's an indoor free flight club where I live though, so he'll get all the flying he needs... if those clipped feathers would only fall off! Everyone in my family agrees that it is mean to clip a bird's wings. They're birds, they're born to fly. We're the ones selfishly keeping them in our house as pets, so it's really our responsibility to make him have the most natural existence possible in captivity.

[harmonicaman68]

I appreciate that you are holding firm in not clipping. In fact, there are owners of various type of parrots who have felt so strongly about having their birds flighted (as they were designed to be) that they have had their flight feathers restored through imping. About 6 weeks ago, I had the pleasure of assisting Steve Hartman of Hartman Aviary restore 8 flight feathers on each wing of a Blue & Gold Macaw. She was young and had just started flying when her new owner came to pick her up from the breeder ... to find that in being "helpful" the breeder had given the "traditional clip".The B&G's new parront was mortified, but knew that imping was available. In the case of a young bird it is imperative that the flight feathers be restored early so the forming brain can establish all of the neural pathways to allow it to "think on the wing" naturally. Birds that are flighted from birth are much more agile.

 

It took us 3 hours to imp the feathers on both wings, but when we finished, the bird flew to her owner freely. It was awesome to see the bond that had already formed between them and to see her choose to be with her parront and be able to act on that desire. A VERY happy B&G.

[danmcq]

It took us 3 hours to imp the feathers on both wings, but when we finished, the bird flew to her owner freely. It was awesome to see the bond that had already formed between them and to see her choose to be with her parront and be able to act on that desire. A VERY happy B&G.

 

What a wonderful thing to have done and the appreciation was shown also immediately by the B&G Macaw.

 

It would be great, if you could you any photos you may have and the description of imping for those that are unfamiliar here of that process.

 

Thanks for a great post Jack, you've been missed here!

Edited August 26, 2010 by danmcq

[Birdnut]

Wow! I've never heard of imping. Could you tell more about it, please?

[danmcq]

I hope Jack will respond with photos. But in a nut shell, it is "Grafting" in feathers from either dead birds or ones you have collected as they molted. They are precisely trimmed to length and match primary to primary for example and the shaft of the primary on the bird receiving it it trimmemed for proper alignment and the two are "Spliced" to each other using a tooth pick slid inside the shaft or similar item inserted into one shaft then the other and super glued glued. Then you proceed with the same process for each following primary that was clipped or damaged.

 

Photos really illustrate this process the best.

[KimKim]

I have never heard of it either... Sounds kinda weird and painful. I googled it after I read this, never knew it was possible. I would love to see some good photo's also. How long does it last for?

[harmonicaman68]

There is an article being written on the imping process with the B&G by Steve Hartman including photos. I've helped to edit that article, but it hasn't been published yet to my knowledge. The day we did the imping of the B&G we also took extensive video of the process. The bird had already bonded so closely with the young man who was her parront that there was no sedation or discomfort for the bird. She was calmed continuously by her parront's voice, cuddles and head scratches. Steve just stretched the B&G's wings out for measurement/fitting of each feather and the required preparation of the flight feathers (both on the bird and the donor) for the super gluing process that Dan has described.

 

Steve used bamboo (that he grows on his own property) for the splicing of the feathers. The bamboo is fitted into the core of the shaft of the feather on the bird and the core of the donor feather (which had been gathered from the previous molts of many other birds at Hartman Aviary). We needed to compare many donor feathers, because shaft diameter of the donor feather needed to match the B&G. Also as Dan described, the bamboo fits inside the shaft to complete the splice so the bird doesn't "worry" at or pick the spot where the joining of donor to live feather is made. Since the B&G's feather is like a finger nail, the bird feels no discomfort as it's own feather base is prepared to receive the donor feather.

 

Imping has been done for centuries with birds of prey used for hunting. Also it has been done to restore flight to wild birds which are on endangered species lists when they damage major flight feathers through hitting power lines or other accidents. The flight can be restored nearly immediately, before the bird loses muscle mass or cardiovascular capabilities from weeks or months of convalescence waiting to molt and get their new flight feathers naturally.

 

Steve Hartman is the first person I have met who has restored flight to companion birds. For years, he has been preaching the truth that birds are meant to fly and that they can't truly finish forming the neural pathways allowing full intelligence unless we allow them to fly. Being full flighted has certainly allowed our Ziva to be gentle and calm around strangers and even our 2-1/2 year old grand daughters. She doesn't bite ... she just flutters a few feet into the air, thinks over the situation and settles back down to rejoin the fun.

 

Steve's commitment to having each of our companions remain flighted has led to him offering opportunities for flight restoration to those who bring their fids to him.

[harmonicaman68]

In answer to Kimkim's question .. the imped feathers stay in place until the next molt. The imped feathers are then dropped naturally and the new undamaged flight feathers take there place. The bird benefits greatly by keeping muscle mass and good cardiovascular capabilities instead of losing health through non-flight.

Edited August 29, 2010 by harmonicaman68

[harmonicaman68]

OK ... I got Steve Hartman's permission to post the article here (including photos). Eventually, when he gets it posted on his site in a few weeks, the photos will be able to be enlarged by the person viewing the article, but you can at least get the idea from the article I'll post.

 

Dan, I need some advice on how to post this article. It has small versions of the photos imbedded, but the article is still 1.87MB in size as a Word file. Can you talk me through the process of posting it on this Greyforums site? If a different location on this site is better, let me know, because the article is a few pages in length.

 

In pdf format it is 4.3MB in size, but pdf is probably better than as a Word file.

Edited August 27, 2010 by harmonicaman68

[pearllyn]

in a nut shell, it is "Grafting" in feathers from either dead birds or ones you have collected as they molted. They are precisely trimmed to length and match primary to primary for example and the shaft of the primary on the bird receiving it it trimmemed for proper alignment and the two are "Spliced" to each other using a tooth pick slid inside the shaft or similar item inserted into one shaft then the other and super glued glued. Then you proceed with the same process for each following primary that was clipped or damaged.

 

That is amazing - I never knew such a thing exsisted! Quite a simple concept when you think about it, but I'll bet there's quite an art to doing it correctly. Amazing!

[danmcq]

WOW!!!

 

What a wonderful article. Please give our thanks to Steve Hartman for allowing this to be posted on our site. It is a true honor.

 

Also, thank you Jack for taking the hours required to place it on our Forum. I know it is a pain to copy text, format it then save images to photo bucket and then place the image links in the correct spots.

 

I have no doubt this pioneering article on imping of Parrots will help many people make the right choice when deciding to clip or not to clip and also, if they do not have a choice a solution possibly if they can find a person experienced in doing it and with the feather inventory to correctly select the donor feathers.

 

Again, I think you and Steve from the bottom of my heart. This article is priceless!

[harmonicaman68]

Hi Dan,

 

I'll pass your thanks along to Steve. It impressed me that when I told him of our conversation here on Greyforums, he immediately gave me permission to post this article that he had been preparing for his own site. His comment was, "Please go ahead and post it quickly. I want folks to have this information freely since it is so important to their parrot's health."

 

Dan, this is the only place this article has been published to date and it tells me that what you are doing here on the Greyforums site is MUCH appreciated. I know that Steve could have chosen to first publish this in one of the many periodicals and magazines on companion parrots, but he allowed us to share the information first, because it is SO beneficial to us to know that there is even a way for a Parront to change their mind if they reconsider clipping and want to restore flight and the strength, physical health and mental health that flight brings to each of our companion birds.

 

I consider it a privilege to have had the opportunity to connect Greyforums with Steve. The time I spent preparing photos and connecting them into the text was pure joy. (Sorry it took me so long to get it done. It has been awhile since I did something like this, but your advanced features here on the newly upgraded site worked well )

Edited August 29, 2010 by harmonicaman68

[pearllyn]

What an outstanding article. It astonishes me, the lengths some people will go to for the welfare of animals - warms the heart. Thanks so much Harmonicaman68 for sharing this article with us - it's an invaluable bit of reading - this is information that should be read by ALL parrot owners, it is the best parrot article I've read in a loooooong time, outlining not just the imping procedure, but the importance of flight for all, and especially young birds. Thanks.

[harmonicaman68]

For those who have been following this thread and wondered where to find the article by Steve Hartman that Dan and others were talking about. It was moved to http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190818-Imping-Feathers-Clipped-wings-restored-through to be its own topic and can be viewed in its entirety at that location on this Greyforums site.

[jeanbridgeford]

Can anyone tell me approximately how long it will take for the flight feathers to grow back in? I am so sorry now that I had Smokey's clipped. He/She has just been devastated since the clipping. I hope it won't take to long and I'll never have her clipped again. She will be 3 in November. First and last time clipped by the vet!

[Dave007]

There's no set amount of time when that'll happen. It'll depend on how much was clipped, how many flight feathers were dying and were near the point of naturally falling out or whether fresh or dying feathers were clipped at the same time. Some clipped feathers will fall out quicker than others. Those will be the first to get new feathers but other older feathers will remain and new ones will grow out later. It also depends upon the blood supply that each feather had before it was clipped. So all in all, it may be a short period or long period of time. Not to scare you but regrowing flight feathers has taken about 3 mts to 1 yr in some cases and it all has to do with what the stage was when those feathers were clipped. Eventually, they'll all match up but that make take a while. Of course you can try the *imping* process that's been talked about here but be prepared to spend a large amount of money and understand that the original feather that's still connected to the body that's getting an addon which is a dead feather,won't prevent the the feather that's connected to the body to not fall out when the time has arrived when the blood supply dries up and falls off. What that means is that the original clipped feather plus the dead feather that's connected to it will all fall off.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Dave007

[Luvparrots]

Ana Grey was clipped when I brought her home at 4 months old 11/29/08, I believe. She took flight on 11/14/09. It was a long wait but she hasn't stopped flying and maneuvering around since!!! I love the sound of her wings flapping as she flies into the room!!!! Priceless!!! Even my canary has out of cage flying time!!!

[KimKim]

I wonder how long it will take Babalu to fly. He was clipped when I adopted him and I kept him that way until now. I am not sure if he was able to fly in the past, I know he was bought from a Parrot store and I have some of his vet receipts that show grooming from his previous owner. A couple times a week he will jump off of his stands or out the cage and try to fly (but falls). He also loves to flap his wings when we go up the stairs in the morning or when I hold him up and say "weeeeee".

[danmcq]

It depends on his molt cycle. It could take up to a year.

 

Your description of him flapping and enjoying it is cute. He knows he is meant to fly and it appears to me he has the "Never give up" mentality.

[tbird]

I want to thank you all for your great responses. This thread was exacly what I was going to post and Talon you answered my question. I was a breeder of cockatiels and when I sold birds to customers I clip the wings and I also knew that the wings will grow back one day. I bought my baby (Sunny) a month ago an picked him up from Florida with his wings clipped. I was undecided what to do should I keep his wings clipped or let them grow out. Well I have decided to let them grow out why have a bird and not enjoy them thanks again you are all great...

[GoDiego]

I love this thread and listening to everyone's pros and cons to clip or not. Recently I posted in the training section of the forum about Diego's flying worrying me as he was constantly hitting the patio doors. I was very close to getting Diego's wings clipped until I read through this thread. After I looked at why he was doing what he was doing and I also found out about their natural behaviour in the wild. Diego is an Amazon parrot and flies very differently to a Grey, Amazons like to fly in straight lines. After finding this out, I realised that the cage was a long way from the patio doors but in a direct line them, so was a natural flight path for him to head for them. I moved his cage nearer to the doors but next to them so now his flight path is to the other side of the room. I also have a large basement and instead of curbing his flying I now take in for some daily flying to practice and release some energy (Although some days he just sits there!)

 

Since embracing his flying and working with his natural abilities, things have changed drastically. He very rarely flies now to the windows and seems much happier getting some exercise. I love Diego being flighted and I would feel like I was clipping his personality if I had his wings clipped.

 

I'm not going to say it's easy to have a flighted bird in the house as I am always running around after him. But I never got Diego to just look pretty in the corner.

[judygram]

But I never got Diego to just look pretty in the corner.

 

Nobody puts Diego in a corner!