I am Angry!

[Talon]

I would like to for once, have the opportunity to voice my "own" opinion about a recent event that took place here on the forum. So be WARNED: I am going to vent and not worry for once about who's feelings I hurt. I do APOLOGIZE in advance for any one I offend. Sometimes even us ADMIN have to get things off our chest.

Some of the members here know exactly what I am going to talk about, others won't have a clue as I deleted out the threads pertaining to this.

 

 

I, along with some of my very close friends, became a member of this forum over 3 years ago. At that time, there was 1 admin, NO moderators, 3 rooms, no photo's & 1200 members, most of which were

inactive. One of us Ceasarsdad, quickly became an admin, and soon after he started adding a few moderators. After some time, I also became an admin. Ceasarsdad & I worked tirelessly to clean up the forum, add rooms, run contests (in which he used his own money to pay for contest winnings), post video's, air a forum address for the members, we paid out of our pockets for conference calls to the moderators, and most importantly worked very hard to create a FAMILY FEELING.

 

A FAMILY FEELING in which everyone was to be treated with care, respect & dignity. We share in our members milestones both in their personal lives and their birds lives, we love and care for every bird as though it was our own. We show the deepest concern for every member of our family here. We except others differences, their ethnic backgrounds, their language barriers, their different opinions, we may not agree, in fact, we may feel very strongly that they are WRONG & we are RIGHT, however, we have always managed to share our feelings in a kind & nice way. We ACCEPT and WELCOME everyone regardless.

 

We have always been a family that could debate in a healthy way. Recently, that has not been happening. Our FAMILY FEELING is gone. We seem to have lost our way. We all come here for advice, help, answers to questions, to share stories, events and thoughts that non-bird owners just don't understand. We worked so hard over the last 3 years to build this forum up from the small forum it was. It is now one of the biggest and well known forums for African Greys. We have the highest of standards for a forum because of the way we have always made EVERYONE feel so special and welcome.

 

NONE OF US (MODS OR ADMIN) OWN THIS FORUM, NOR DO ANY OF US GET PAID FOR THE COUNTLESS HOURS WE SPEND HERE) We built this forum to what it is now: 3 admin, 1 super moderator, 8 moderators, thousands of photo's, and over 5000 members. I will not let that Family Feeling, that Family Forum go away. Ceasarsdad & I have worked too hard.

 

The recent flaming that went on here in the 2 days I was away was appalling to me. I will not tolerate that from any member or moderator again. I am as Jayd recently posted, "Ashamed" of our members behavior. I wished that our Moderators had been doing their job.....

Some of you may feel I am 'reprimanding' you, as a member recently complained, but I REALLY don't care if you feel that way or not. My advice to any member, is if you don't want to agree to our code of ethics, then LEAVE and find some other forum where you can have your fun.

 

This member that was verbally abused is FredGrey. FredGrey recently joined after being a 'lurker' for a long time. He has over 20 years experience with birds. He owns a conure and was lurking here to learn as much as he could about greys which he wants to adopt. He finally decides to join our FAMILY. He saw the thread where a member complained about a company and not receiving their order, (more on this to come later) he was only trying to help that member in explaining that 'Processing" can take time......well that member went off the deep end, and decided that FredGrey was the owner of that company. Other members jumped on that band wagon and took off with insults and accusations aimed solely at FredGrey. No where did FredGrey EVER say he was connected with the company. I had read that thread numerous times. I never could understand WHY members would think that. You sided with a member who had 244 posts without even using your own mind to decide if FredGrey was or was not the owner of the company. Why? Because it was his first post and didn't post in the Welcome Room first???

Well, I will tell you, that that is a HORRIBLE way to Welcome a new member! Just because he didn't post in the Welcome Room?....well BIG DEAL....SO WHAT??? Many don't post there first, or at all. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT TO POST IN THE WELCOME ROOM WHEN YOU JOIN!!! :mad:

Now you chased away a member that had years of experience that he could share with us. I am sure he has much to offer in helping us based on his years of owning birds. What a GREAT asset he would have been to this family. Of course, you can only imagine how upset and hurt he feels. His first impression of us is one, in which he feels that if your opinions or beliefs don't match ours, then your not welcome. I don't blame him, that's how he was made to feel.

How do I know all this? Because I have been in contact with him. I have had to apologize to him numerous times for YOUR behavior. I am trying hard to convince him to reconsider us as his family, but unfortunately he has reservations at this time.

 

If you bothered to read this post in it's entirety, then I thank you. But this type of treatment on this forum as long as I am admin is unexceptable....

 

Sincerely, Talon/ Penny

Edited June 10, 2010 by Talon

[Jayd]

I wish to thank Talon/Penny !

I also wish to offer my personal "I'm Sorry" to Fredgrey....

 

Jayd, Maggie, Spock and the Flock

[JillyBeanz]

I was that person who asked why FredGrey had chosen to post his first comment in that thread and don't really see why this is such a problem. We regularly ask new members who post in other rooms other than the "Welcome Room" to go and introduce themselves and that is exactly what I asked him to do. I don't want anybody to be ashamed on my behalf, and therefore I shall do exactly what is asked of me and leave. I can't believe how petty and ridiculous this has become.

 

I will say, that over the past year and a bit I have enjoyed my time here - but I really don't need such hassle over pretty menial and unimportant things at the moment, there's more to life than this place.

[Dave007]

To the person named FredGrey, nothing's perfect. There's people that're gonna say things without thinking about what they're actually saying nor will they give a damn about the end results. If you think that this has been the first time it's happened, you're wrong. It happens for different reasons in all of our sections ( boards) here. Much of the subject matter is totally different but it's offensive, nasty, insulting and it can cause many to get pissed off. A person is usually told to clean up their act but usually they don't so the next step is to reprimand that person knowing that the final step is to be banned but understand that the big bosses here aren't usually too quick with doing that. The most important thing here is that it's rare for it to happen.

Maybe you wanna leave or maybe you wanna give it another shot. Just about everyone felt for you and your situation. It takes an awful lot to set Talon/Penny off to the point where she'll post such a long detailed explanation of things. She's a very laid back person. I really don't know anything that went on about what happened but even though you're only one person, others value the fact that you decided to be a member and it doesn't have anything to do with your experience with birds. So maybe, you'll reconsider??? It'll make others happy too.

[pearllyn]

Ooh no no no, stuff like this is not good. I didn't see the posts in question, but there have been a few heated debates creeping in lately about one thing or the other, and I hate to see it, this forum is too helpful to too many people to have it jeapardized like this. I do hope FredGrey reconsiders his membership here and accepts that what he has experienced, while it is a bad first impression to have, is not the norm of what goes on here. I would also hate to lose any existing members we have here, Jillybeanz included, whom I believe is a valued member of our community.

Unfortunatly Penny, it has fallen to you to step in, on this occasion and say your piece. I'm glad you have done this time as we just can't have anyone coming in and feeling unwelcome.

[judygram]

I am angry too but more at myself because I didn't do anything to stop this madness and took it into my own hands and sent Fredgrey a pm warning him of his behavior and now I owe him an apology, thats what happens when you jump to conclusions so please accept my apologies for my inactions and now I am going to pm and email Fredgrey and tell him I was too hasty and to please forgive me and come back and be a part of our family.

[Greywings]

It is a sad thing people acting like a herd instead of thinking for themselves. The majority of folks on here are kind, generous and will go out of their way to help. I also was a lurker for some time before joining in and think of several of you as dear people who really care about their birds and Jilly (one of my favorites) it took me a couple of weeks to go to the welcome room as well at your invite I think. I read the beginnings of that unhappy thread and did not follow it through to the ending. Penny you are trying to repair the damage and I hope his feelings heal and he does give us another chance. I left another board a few years back due this type of treatment of ohters so I want to let you know that this is still a much ahppier place than many others and if we all try a little harder to put those knee jerk reactions to the side to cool off before responding it will remain a family here a big Greayt family.

[Joolesgreyuk]

I am also very sad that this "episode" has ended with the resignation of a forum moderator and one of most prolific posters on here.

[FredGrey]

Over the past few days I've been debating how to reply to all this fuss. I figure I should get it out from my point of view. I'm not sure if I've chosen the right words and it is definately not my intention to create more debate or a mountain out of a molehill... I just see people wondering.

 

First off... I would like to thank the administrators and moderators for their work. It seems like a hard and sometimes thankless no-win job sometimes. Not one that I'd really want to take-on myself. Secondly I would like to thank the members of this forum who have reacted in such a positive way. We all know that it takes a special kind of person to own a parrot - and there are few exceptions to the type of caring individuals that become true parrot people.

 

I've been reading through this forum for some time. I have gone through the threads on grey cognition, training, feeding and have seen a few of the threads on wing clipping. I recently read the thread on Emma's loss in Montreal and hope that she will recover her bird. In other words I've been reading through this forum for quite a while.

 

About a week ago I created an account on this forum and, at pretty much the same time, noticed the thread that Talon mentioned. I read through it and found that it was surprisingly similar to another thread on another forum... And that there had been a previous thread on that other forum that was also similar, but had just disappeared. I made a comment, primarily in response to Ozzysmom (since it was pretty obvious that we had both seen the same threads) that (and I can't remember the exact words - and the thread has since been removed),

 

"it seems to me that the person posting in the other forum had a vendetta against [the company in question]".

 

After that things went off the wall... I believe I made two other posts - not really defending the business practices of the company (since I agree there seem to be problems) but questioning whether or not it was a "scam" to get money from people. That seemed to further inflame the situation - so I stopped posting. I should note that I had purchased from that company (I said it in the thread) with no issues.

 

Perhaps this shouldn't have been my first post - but I felt a familarity with the people and the board... So I simply made that comment.

 

It is unfortunate that such a post should cause so many issues. Especially if a moderator (which I believe is a thankless job anyway) resigned from this.

 

So I hope people will excuse me if I simply lay low and continue my lurking status. I enjoy reading the threads and will continue reading them. Since I am not a grey owner (yet) I will probably read for the most part as I work out the issues of grey ownership (when you are in your thirties and you take-on a long lived bird one has to think a while!). At this point I am not sure that I have much to contribute beyond this.

 

Fred

[Talon]

FredGrey, I would like to Thank you for responding to this thread and telling your side of it. It takes a good man to stand up and come back so calmly after all that transpired. This thread could have taken a nasty turn if you decided to do otherwise. I have seen it happen before.

 

I hope NOW, we can all put this mess behind us and move on. We need to get back to business, and that is talking, sharing and offering help to those in need in this Family. I welcome you back and I look forward to hearing more from you. We would love to see any pictures you may have of your feathered friends.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Hi Fred and welcome, I'm sorry it appears that you made your first appearance at the wrong time but I hope you are aware that these "spats" are few and far between on this forum although they do occur from time to time on all forums - this is actually one of the better ones, it is in general a very friendly and helpful place to be but forums by their very nature can throw up problems when there are faceless people behind keyboards. I hope you have not been put off, if as you say you have seen the thread on poor Emma's dissapearance you will see that we all care very much about each other's parrots.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say hi and I hope when you have finished "lurking" you will decide to join our family.

[Georgiesmum]

I didn't see the thread in question but it obviously upset alot of people so i just wanted to say hi Fred grey and welcome to the forum

[FredGrey]

I hope you have not been put off, if as you say you have seen the thread on poor Emma's dissapearance you will see that we all care very much about each other's parrots.

Initially I was a bit put-off. But that was a first response. After thinking about it for a while, and reading through a few more threads and posts what you say is pretty clear.

 

There is no question in my mind that the vast majority of parrot people are caring individuals. IMO it takes a special type of person to work with parrots. Anyway - I'll certainly continue reading through the forums and may post from time-to-time... Hopefully I'll choose better topics to post on!

[ranaz]

I didnt see it either..but I hope all can put it behind them and move on ....

Hi Fred Grey and welcome here... "lurking" or active...as you please...but believe me there will be times, that you cant stop your self from commenting...especially on those cute threads with amazing grey pictures....

Have GreyT Day

 

[judygram]

Hello Fredgrey and welcome to our family, I am glad that you have decided to stay on with us even if it is only to continue to read the threads but do join in on the conversations and ask questions and we will do our best to get you an answer.

No one deserves to be treated as you were but things will be different now that Penny has things back on track and I will do my utmost to help you with any questions you may ask, I am so glad and grateful that you are giving us a second chance.

[Ozzysmom]

Sp I assume that he has proved in some way that he is not Kevin? Just wondering because that is what was asked for either party to prove their point. I am still not convinced but its not my board and so I have no say. So he obviously proved his 20 plus years experience and that he is NOT this other guy right because I would hate to lose people when this just kinda got messy.

[danmcq]

Wow, I get busy a day or two at work and so much abnormal activity for this forum has gone on.

 

Thank you Penny for that post.

 

Thank you Fred for your post and staying low, thinking about what took place and then posting a very detailed one, if I might say so. I am certainly glad you have stayed and lurked and obviously you are more than welcome to do that. But, from what you have read in that time lurking, I am sure it is obvious that this is 99.9 percent of the time a GreYt forum with a bunch or Parrot lovers that have a good time here and help each other when needed.

 

I think it is time to just let this go, quit talking about it and start enjoying one anothers company, sharing about our birds and enjoying the friendly atmosphere.

 

Jill - I know your a 75 year old German man ;)and are just having a spell. It's a new day and I want my morning smile and laugh you bring like clock work.

[FredGrey]

I don't believe the onus of proof is on me, it is the other way round... On the one(s) making the accusation. That was also how it was phrased in the thread by Talon. But I have had parrots for over 20 years - always small ones though (budgies, cockatiels and conures). I am considering a grey and decided to check out this forum (it does come up on google searches).

 

Anyway - it is not my intention to "stir the pot". I just feel I don't have much to contribute right now... I am reading about greys and their habits and learning capabilities. I've met a few in rescues - and have been impressed by their calm-cool-collected manner (for the most part). I know there must be more too it than that - since my parrots also have behaved differently in different situations. I also am curious about health and diet and have read-through many of the stickies in the Health Room. I remember, in "Alex and Me" Dr. Pepperburg's grey had Aspergillosis and the explanation by Dave? in the sticky in the health room made it pretty clear what can cause it and how to avoid it...

 

So my contributions, at this time anyway, will be somewhat limited. After owning parrots, the consideration of adoption of another long-lived bird must not be taken lightly or on the spur of the moment. That's my opinion anyway...

[danmcq]

After owning parrots, the consideration of adoption of another long-lived bird must not be taken lightly or on the spur of the moment. That's my opinion anyway...

 

It is a good opinion and spot on.

 

I wish ALL people going out and looking for a Parrot thought that way.

 

I am certain, after reading here on this forum and the other sources you have tapped in to, have given you a good idea of what owning a grey is like. Adopting a Grey with baggage is even more challenging and must be considered unconditional love, whether it is returned or not. The point is helping out a critter in need of a loving and caring home it can become all that it was intended to be. Being a part of that process is a reward I can only classify as invaluable.

[FredGrey]

I wish ALL people going out and looking for a Parrot thought that way.

It probably comes from having had birds... My first parrot, a Budgie from K-mart (back when they used to sell live animals) was, hmmm, not a well thought out purchase... But we did have a good time for a few years. I've learned a lot since then and am still learning.

[Supernova]

Until I get the full facts NO comment!!

[Joolesgreyuk]

I think most of us have moved on now and put this episode behind us, it matters not who is right and who is wrong, Penny has laid down the law and that is that.

 

Dan = the voice of reason.

[judygram]

I think most of us have moved on now and put this episode behind us, it matters not who is right and who is wrong, Penny has laid down the law and that is that.

 

Dan = the voice of reason.

 

Exactly Jules

[Supernova]

Until I get the full facts NO comment!!

OK I take the hint.

[Ozzysmom]

Hmm ok well I enjoyed it here but really dont think a forum should be run with an iron fist and I dont think members should be treated like children and told to shut up. I think we should all be able to voice our opinions and question what we dont understand or think is right!

have a good day