kyparamedic

Well, I just had a big scare with my grey, Chloe. I decided to give her a bath as I hadn't in quite some time (a couple months). Primarily because she hates them so much. Before doing so, I trimmed a couple of her toenails as they were starting to cut through my skin. Of course she wasn't happy about this. Before giving her a bath I cleaned out the sink with a disinfectant (Fantastik), rinsed it good, cleaned it using regular dawn dish soap, and rinsed it out again. This time I put room-temperature water in rather than warm water as I've read they generally like this better. She sat in there for a few minutes while I watched her and lapped the water up over her back. I put a tiny amount of the shampoo (Kings Cages stuff my vet recommended) on her back and started rubbing it in and she became very stressed out. I let it sit for a few minutes and started splashing the water on her back again. She was still very stressed, quite a bit more than usual. I took the spray bottle with half water/half aloe vera juice in it and dumped it over her back, which got her pretty worked up as she hates the spray bottle so even the sight of it gets her going. I went ahead and drained the water out as she was obviously very upset now. As I was rinsing her off, she kept trying to get out and was kind of falling on her side. I thought it was just because she couldn't get any traction although it was a little weird because she's never fallen over like that. So I thought it could be that I had just clipped her toenails. So I put a towel around her and lift her up and she starts making this terrible noise, like she's in a lot of distress. She's also breathing really heavy and fast. I try to put my hand in to let her stand on it and she is all wobbly and having trouble standing. I wrap her back up and just hold her against me. She's shaking, making that awful noise, and breathing fast. I head back to her cage and just sit there with her for about 5 minutes, trying to calm her. I am completely dumbfounded at this point as to what's going on and am thinking all this was just too much on her. She finally stops with the noise for the most part so I take her to her cage and see if she'll get back on my hand. She's still pretty unsteady. I let her get on top of her cage where there is a rail around it so she can't fall off, thinking she'll feel more comfortable here. She's pretty wobbly but gets over to the rail and stands up on it of course! So I try to get her to stand back up on my hand so I can put her in a safer spot but she won't have it. When I try to pick her up she starts biting and scooting away. I stand there and just watch her for a while until I'm confident she won't fall. At this point I'm wondering if somehow she ingested some of the Fantastik. The vet is closed, although I can call his emergency number. I'm also 2 hours away though. I can't see how she would have ingested any of the Fantastik, unless there was some around the top of the sink that I didn't realize and then didn't get rinsed off either. Very unlikely but still possible. I searched the toxicology databases and the only ingredient in the Fantastik that could cause some of the symptoms she exhibited was the propylene glycol. However, this was after massive amounts given to rats. The Fantastik is made up of less than 4% of it. While I'm doing this and watching her, she starts to come around. Now she is acting completely normal and has been for the last hour. She's talking, playing, eating, etc. You'd never know anything happened except that her feathers are wet! So, any ideas here? I'm hoping/thinking I'm out of the woods, but will be keeping a close eye on her. Was she just traumatized by the whole event? Did I change things up on her too much? Thanks.<br><br>Post edited by: kyparamedic, at: 2008/04/26 00:32

Thanks for the responses. Her wings are clipped so there's no chance of her getting to the blades.

I tried searching the forums but couldn't find anything about this. My room is the hottest in the house and during the daytime can get quite uncomfortable, for me at least. I have a ceiling fan that I haven't used since I got my CAG due to the issue of drafts. However, since it's gotten so hot and I don't want to keep the A/C set really low so the rest of the house is freezing I'd like to use my ceiling fan. Her cage is not directly under it but you can feel it where she is. Is it safe to run it or will the draft be really bad? I can cover her cage at night. Also, her wings are clipped so there's no risk of her flying into it. Thanks, Andrew

For those using humidifiers, are you using the cool-mist type or the warm-air ones? I have a cool-mist one with the invisible vapor but there really isn't a noticeable difference in humidity, although I haven't actually checked it with a meter. Thanks.

He's an avian diplomate so I hope he's qualified in what he's talking about. Otherwise I've wasted a lot of money! I've tried researching it on the internet and the only references I can find to it are for babies who are being hand-fed.

I've found that my grey is very easy to bathe, but hates getting sprayed! Even after I bathe her and she's still wet, when I go to spray her with the Pluck No More she gets mad.

I really don't think so. I've known this guy for 15 years, he took care of my iguana since I was a kid. When I told him I was concerned about how far we were going to go with all this he told me that he knew it was expensive but he wanted to get to the bottom of it and he would help me out if necessary. He kept her overnight to hydrate her and redraw blood and then didn't charge me anything which saved me about $200. He is very thorough and does order lots of tests sometimes but he also testifies as an expert witness in malpractice cases so he knows the standard of care. Kind of sad the veterinary world is becoming like the medical world, but that's another topic. I'm not sure where I said that he concluded it was lack of attention. If anything he said I needed to give her more appropriate attention, limiting the way I interact with her since she's become sexually aggresive. I've already noticed some change since the Lupron shot, specifically she's not plucking as much and is not regurgitating. I'm sure there are plenty of other good vets out there but he's very familiar with her case now and is the only avian diplomat in the state.

Well, she just went to her last vet appt. for a while (I hope). After her kidney enzymes were elevated for two visits in a row, they were normal this time. Her fungal culture results came back and were all negative. He thinks it was probably a fluke or related to her diet which we have changed. However, her calcium level was up along with her weight. This, along with the fact that she's been regurgitating for me leads him to believe that she's preparing to lay an egg. He couldn't feel it, but due to the change in seasons and her behavior, he doesn't think it's far off. So we decided to go ahead and give her a shot of Lupron (a hormone) which should hopefully keep her from laying and calm her down sexually. He also hopes it will solve the plucking problem. We shall see. In the meantime I have to start covering her cage at around 5pm to limit the amount of light since the days have gotten longer and observe her closely for any signs of nesting behavior. I'm calling him next week to let him know how she's doing.

I asked again the other day about this and my vet said that if they're eating the proper diet, a UV light is a waste of money as they get all the vitamin D they need from their diet. As long as there is sunlight from a window, they'll be ok. If not, artificial light is recommended.

Just took her to her last vet appt. for a while (I hope). Her calcium level and weight were up and he's afraid she's trying to lay an egg so he gave her a shot of Lupron (hormone) which he hopes will also help with the plucking. She usually regurgitates it all the way, most of the time she either tries or brings it up enough that I can see it but then swallows it again. I asked him about this and he said this is not a problem in terms of crop burn or what he called crop stasis, other than the fact that she's too sexual and he doesn't want her laying an egg.

I talked to the vet today and he said that what I described didn't worry him and that "she is in love." He said he wanted to give me a handout next time I was there about proper ways to touch/pet birds as the way I was petting her may have been "arousing" hence the heavy breathing and holding her wings a little away from her body. He said she would eventually stop trying to regurgitate for me. Today she's only done it a few times but is always trying to climb up on my hand and loves grabbing ahold of my fingers, nose and lips. We're still going to check the kidney enzymes again in a week. I just hope they're normal know that we've changed diets and discontinued the Diflucan.

I posted about this in a previous post but I have some questions and thought I should start a new thread. My grey regurgitated a while back which prompted my vet to do some bloodwork as it can be a sign of disease. She did have elevated kidney enzymes which can be a cause of regurgitation. Feeding their young and giving it to their "mate" can also be a reason. Well on Friday I had her out of her cage and was on the computer for a couple hours and she was acting completely normal. Chattering up a storm, climbing around, doing her regular thing. Well I went up to her to pet her and she grabbed my fingers like she usually does and then she began to try to regurgitate her food. She had just eaten a pellet. Nothing actually came up but she did this a couple of times. She stopped and I picked her up and carried her around the house for a few minutes. I sat down with her and she was sitting on my hand and she started the whole regurgitating then again. Then she started kind of breathing hard, almost sounded like there was a wheeze, although this could have been because it was coming out of her nostrils creating the noise. She also pulled her feathers out from her body a little. I scratched her head and her back but she kind of scared me so I set her back on her cage. I was about to call the vet but I decided to look on the internet first. From what I found, this could be her finding me a suitable mate and her getting excited. Kind of embarrasing actually. At the same time though, difficulty breathing is not normal. I don't know if she was actually having trouble breathing as she wasn't mouth breathing, and as soon as I put her back on her cage she started breathing normal again. Has anyone else had a similar experience or an explanation? She acts normal except when I am right next to her or holding her. She also wants to grab a hold of my fingers or face. She doesn't bite, it just kind of a soft chewing. Sometimes she shakes a little though. I'm really confused about what's going on and just looking to see if anyone else may have seen something similar. She is indeed a female by the way. I'll call the vet on Monday as she's fine when in or on her cage and I'm not right next to her. Thanks!

Well, I'll give a quick update. She was negative for aspergillus. He felt everything was in order with her and that the feather plucking was psychological and to continue with the Pluck-No-More and change her diet around. That was until I told him that she had regurgitated some food the other day. I asked about blood work before to check calcium and other blood chemistry but he didn't feel it was necessary but would do it if I wanted it. After telling him about the regurgitation though, he said he wanted the blood. It was a good thing we did, as her kidney enzymes were very elevated. He felt the reason for the regurgitation was due to this as a build up of phosphorous and uric acid can cause this. Although he also said that if she did this in front of me, it could also be because she considers me her mate :ohmy: So he kept her overnight and gave her some subcutaneous fluids which pretty much resolved everything which made him believe she may have just not have had enough to drink that day. Anyway he wanted to check her again in a week just to make sure and he wanted to show me how to properly bathe her. This time, her enzymes were triple what they were before. So now he wanted x-rays again. He saw some concentrated uric acid in her kidneys even after an IV fluid bolus. He kept her overnight again and her bloodwork was back to normal the next day. Since I had already paid $1200 in vet bills, he waived the $150 for staying the night and the bloodwork he did the next day. He's trying to rule out all possible causes so we've changed her diet to Harrison's only as he doesn't like dyed pellets and this one is organic. No other foods. We've also discontinued the Diflucan. There are a lot of different causes, the worst of which is congenital kidney disease, for which there is no treatment. Infection can be a cause, but her WBC count was normal the first time i took her in which means it may not have elevated yet or she has no infection. If it wasn't for the kidney enzymes, he would give her a clean bill of help. He said she looks and acts completely healthy. The definitive diagnosis will be a biopsy, but he only wants to do that as a last resort. So she goes back in 2 weeks. Hopefully the elevation was related to food or the Diflucan. In the meantime though, she starting acting a little strange today, regurgitating again. I'm going to start a new post on that. Guess this wasn't really a quick update.

I asked my avian vet and he said that it wouldn't hurt but really wasn't necessary. I've read otherwise but I tend to trust him as he's been dealing with birds for 25 years and only one of 100 or so board-certified avian specialists.

Well it takes a full 4 weeks to fully grow but they will test it every week. There's a possibility then that it can test positive before that but negative doesn't really mean anything until the full 4 weeks of culturing, i could be wrong about this.

Well, I thought I'd give an update. After a $620 vet bill, I've found out that my grey probably has an aspergillosis infection. They're sending lab work and cultures off to the University of Miami but it will take 4-5 weeks for results of the cultures to come back since they have to culture it for 4 weeks. He became concerned after her xrays showed distended air sacs and a small spot around her lung. He also wants to rule out heavy metal toxicity. He said the next step is to scope her to see exactly what's there and to possibly get a culture. I go back next week. I can't wait to see the bill on that one. In the meantime I'm getting her flucanazole orally every 24 hours and spraying her 4x day which she hates. It's this product called Pluck No More that's homeopathic. He said it's only one of 2 products he's ever endorsed but that it's the only thing he's seen work consistently. I put it in her water as well. So I guess we'll find out more next week.

FairY, how do you let them know it's forbidden? From what I've read, the best thing to do is ignore it and just take it. However, even when I try my hardest to ignore it, it's pretty obvious I'm not enjoying it and I think she knows this! I think she gets some perverted pleasure out of this. When I have yelled at her, she just kinda gives me this look like, what are you going to do about it?

What kind of filter? Like a Brita water pitcher or something special/more advanced? Thanks.

Most of what I've read recommends using steam distilled water for drinking, but what I read on http://www.exoticpetvet.net says not to use this as all the mineral content is removed and it's very flat tasting. This vet recommends tap water unless it is suspect in which case to use bottled water or filter the tap water. I have read the chlorine is bad for birds but there is no mention of this. What do the rest of you do? Thanks.

Thanks for all the advice. She's doing pretty good now, except for the plucking and biting. She seems much more comfortable and always wants to come out and visit. She likes me to scratch her head and always lowers it down but then will randomly try to bite me. A lot of times it's not a bite, just a soft nip like she's tasting my finger or something. It's hard to tell what she's going to do so it makes me nervous when she does this. She loves to chew and shred paper and I'll hold it up to her to let her shred it but I'm wondering if this is encouraging her biting or she thinks it's a game. The other night she'd try to bite, I'd pull away, and then she'd act like she wasn't paying attention and try to get me. Her skin seems very dry and she scratches a lot and when she does it looks like "dandruff" is going everywhere. I've stopped spraying her as she obviously doesn't like it. Something else interesting is that the other day my roommate was in the room and petting her and she just jumped off and grabbed ahold of his pants and started trying to climb up him until I went over and she climbed onto my hand. This is the 2nd time she's gone after him. He hasn't done anything to provoke her that I can tell, and she lets him pet her although he's extremely nervous about the whole biting thing.

I just got my CAG from a coworker. She's 3-4 year's old and is plucking her feathers. He said that she had been doing this for the last couple of months and it has gotten worse recently, he thinks because he hasn't had any time for her, which is why he wanted to find her a new home. You can see her bare chest which looks scaly and dry in a lot of places and part of her back looks kind of raggedy. I have placed a humidifier near her cage and have been trying to give her lots of attention. The first 2 days I would leave her cage open to see if she wanted to come out, I wouldn't go in after her. When she did, I would walk up to her and see if she would let me pet her. She would lower her head down and let me pet it and let me pet her beak, but then sometime she would grab my finger. Normally it was a soft nip but other times it could be hard. A couple of times when I've gone to pick her up she's bitten hard enough to draw blood. She doesn't talk as much as he said she did, which he said was normal around new people, but she has started saying more things, like her name, and other stuff that I don't understand. She also makes lots of bird noises now. I bought some moisturizing spray with aloe vera that's supposed to help with plucking. She absolutely hates it though. If I even go near the bottle she starts squawking and flapping her wings. I try to get it without her seeing it but I feel like I'm tricking her and making her mad and this may not be the best thing. What should I do? I'm going to schedule an appt. with the vet but would like to try to do something in the meantime. There's always small white feathers in her water bowl and she'll shake, sending what looks like a dust storm everywhere. Also, sometimes when she's out of her cage she'll stand on one leg, pull the other one up and extend it out along with that wing. I don't know if she's trying to show off or what. Any ideas? Thanks, Andrew