Qweevox

Hi, this is a tough question. I think noise is relative. African Greys, at least CAG’s are not noisy birds for their size, well…not as noisy as certain Amazons anyway, and certainly not as noisy as a Conure. With that said, some Greys can become enamored with the most bizarre sounds. My CAG picked up a certain annoying alarm clock I had in college…ten years later, long after the alarm clock bit-the-dust, my Grey would still remind me of that clock…loudly. It also depends on the individual personality of the bird. I had a friend who had a CAG that was as quit as a mouse…only clicked every now and again and never talked. Do they make noise? Sure, but unless your apartment walls are very thin I don’t think a Grey is going to be a problem. Good Luck! I just thought about something you could try...if you have good computer speakers. Play a few of these videos loud and see if it bothers your neighbors... funny videos This one is really funny edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/03/14 07:59

shanlung wrote: That is not correct. The development of the bird neurons and later temperament appeared to be connected with flight. More and more, good breeders are allowing the chicks to fledge and fly for a few weeks prior to clipping, if ever done. Perhaps you did not read http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.org/Library/pam2.html Frankly, I am shocked that that 'avian vet' recommended only one wing to be clipped. So shocked that I have nothing to say, unless that 'avian vet' is prepared to come public to this or any parrot forum to defend that bizarre practise. Shanlung I haven't heard the practice of clipping one wing for quite some time. Years ago, I think more people did it for appearance reasons...I didn’t know it is still recommended. I also have read that young birds should be allowed to learn to fly, or at least use their wings. Again, I think “wing clipping” is somewhat controversial. There are people with strong feelings on both side of the debate. Personally, I am leaning towards flight; however, it is a personal choice.<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/03/14 07:25

Of course, it’s all personal choice. Two Greys are going to be twice the one-on-one time, twice the cage cleaning time, twice the vet bills, twice the food…you get the picture. You didn’t indicate your experience with parrots. If you’ve never owned a parrot before you might want to start with one…just my two cents. The weaned vs. handfed debate is a hot topic. It really depends on your experience and knowledge level. Taking on a handfed bird is a lot more complicated then just using a syringe. You can kill a bird by feeding it incorrectly. Then there is the “time” consideration. A bird that is not mature enough to eat on its own requires more time and care…so again it’s really a personal choice. Most people would recommend that you not take on a handfed bird, and many breeders won’t even allow their birds to leave without being weaned first. Good Luck!

Hey DweamGoil, and welcome! I am about convinced that it is important for parrots (and all birds) to fly. There are a loads of internet sites on the subject even some that advocate free flight for parrots outside…yeah I know it is a scary proposition, but with the right training who knows. In any case, most of “pro-flight” sites seem to point out that the parrot will be healthier both mentally and physically. In fact I read that biting may be a result of a bird “knowing” that flight is not possible. Many of the advocates of flight maintain that if a bird is threatened in the wild they fly away, parrots with clipped wings can’t so they deal with perceived threats with all they have left…their strong beaks. It is a bit of a controversial subject with some folks having very strong opinions on both side of the flight issue. You might try searching around the web on the subject here is one site that deals with the subject: http://theparrotuniversity.com/articles/flightedparrots.html Good Luck and welcome! <br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/02/27 07:25

African Greys are conservative by nature. While there are some variations in personality by and large Greys hate change. They also have the memory of an elephant. This can work for and against you. With all that said FairY is right 3 weeks is not a lot of time. You might want to slow down on the affection part just yet. Work on getting him to step up consistently before you try to get him to like head scratches. Take it slow…patients is more then a virtue it’s a necessity. Hang in there and Good Luck!

This is great! Good luck! I hope it all works out!

FairY is right, it shouldn't be a problem.

Dustyb, let us know what the vet says. Good Luck!

Dustyb, let us know what the vet says. Good Luck! Hicup:laugh: I have no idea why this post repeated several times....<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/02/18 04:22

<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/02/18 04:20

Hi, welcome. Unfortunately, there are no quick fixes when it comes to biting but the good news is the behavior is correctable. Here are some sites that might help. http://www.parrotparrot.com/articles/aa051999.htm http://www.parrotparrot.com/articles/aa072000a.htm http://www3.upatsix.com/liz/articles/biting2.html http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40939.asp http://www.qeok.com/birds/662-1-birds.html http://www.citynoise.org/article/2170 Good luck!

Conventional wisdom is that a flying parrot can get into to much trouble. The bird might fly onto a hot cook top, into an open toilet, into a window, or escape and starve to death. However, another school of thought believes that parrots where made to fly. They believe it is cruel to clip a parrot’s wings and equate the practice to cutting a dog’s legs off to keep him from running. Check these sites out. http://theparrotuniversity.com/articles/flightedparrots.html http://www.holisticbirds.com/hbn04/spring04/fitnessflight.htm http://www.theotiseffect.com/ http://www.shynefoundation.org/ http://www.freeflight-usa.com/ http://www.shadeseclectus.com/video_page.htm http://www.wendysparrots.com/html/o_t_i_s_b.htm http://www.fosterparrots.com/parrot.html I believe it would be ideal to allow parrots to fly.

It is stress. However, stress can lead to illness. If he is just quiet give him time. If you see signs of illness take him to the vet, otherwise I would just give it a little time.

It would be fine. You just have to make sure you spend time every day. Greys are intelligent creatures of routine and will be fine by themselves if they have enough stimulation to keep them from getting bored...toys, TV, or radio. Be careful though they pick up sounds so choose your TV and radio wisely there is nothing like hearing your Grey repeatedly mimicking your least favorite jiggle...over...and over...and over...again. Also, ask yourself if you are going to have the energy or desire to spend time each day with your Grey. Like a gym membership your commitment level might wane. One skipped day turns into two…three…then before you know it the only contact you have had with your friend is making sure he has food and water. Then the biting gets worse, and you have less and less to do with him until one day you decide to give him away, or worse he dies early of boredom. Greys have the intelligence of a five year old child…they need interaction, and stimulation. If you even doubt your commitment a little…don’t do it.

It sounds like a molt to me. The head is the give away. However, its hard to tell without seeing her. You should let your vet have look.

I'm glad I have only heard of this behavior...<G>

Ryan13 it sounds like you Grey’s talon might have been broken or dislocated, each condition is very painful. How did it turn out? Did the vet find the problem? I am so glad you took your Grey to the Vet.

Hi…and NO you don’t have to accept things the way they are now. Its going to take some time but you can bring your CAG around. I would suggest learning as much as you can about parrot behavior. You might want to think about getting another cage for your TAG. She sounds sweet and if your CAG is intimidating her she is under stress. The next thing would be to keep Paco around you as much as possible. Move his cage to where ever you just hang out, watch TV, bang away on the computer, or read. It is important that he just sees you for awhile. Once he settles in you’ll know (He won’t act as nervous around you) then you can begin training him. Go slow…it takes time but you can bring him around.

DaffyToons wrote: I am going to have to second that. It is NEVER a good idea to let Greys or any parrots for that matter sit on your shoulder. There is a reason pirates wear eye patches… Seriously, though, your sweet little Grey friend has the ability to exert enough pressure with his beak to exceed the weight of an elephant. Greys don’t really have the “dominance” problems of some other parrot species like Amazons but even so…do not allow them to sit on your shoulder. In one second they could scar you for life or worse they could damage your eye.

HI and welcome...I'm new here to I don't think you have anything to worry about, but to be on the safe side call your vet.

I hear you FairY. It does seem a bit scary, but it is possible. Some people think that it is detrimental to a parrot’s mental and physical health not to fly. Here is a link that made me think: http://theparrotuniversity.com/articles/flightedparrots.html I’ve seen other sites as well that advocate the practice. I was just wondering if anyone here had any practical experience…

I know that many people have strong feelings on this issue. However, everything I have read really emphasis the physical and psychological benefits to the birds. It makes sense to me. Birds are made to fly. In any case since Charlie’s death I’ve been thinking about this more and more with my next bird. Has anyone had any experience?

This is a tough one. The bites hurt more then the physical pains don’t they? I hate to say it you are going to have to “rock up”. If the bird is getting to you and stopping his step up training then he’s doing a good job training you. Your reaction is reinforcing his behavior. Start by taking a break for a while. Hang around his cage, or bring his cage to where you hang out. Let him see you. He needs to feel more secure around you first. That will help him build trust. Don’t worry about the step up command for a while. Talk to him, feed him treats, walk around his cage, and let him get use to you. The thing to remember about African Greys is that they are VERY perceptive. When a parrot bites it hurts and that pain leads naturally leads to apprehension on your part. He can sense your apprehension. Sometimes it’s scary just how empathic parrots can be. If you thought dogs sensed fear, it’s nothing like parrots. They seem to know your mood. Therefore, you have to be relaxed before you begin training again. After a few weeks of “togetherness”, you can start again. You’ll know when the time is right. It has to do with you as much as it has to do with him. As I said, you have to be relaxed. If you can’t take any bites then use a dowel to start. However, if you can “rock up” a go at it with determination and resolve you will be surprised just how fast the biting stops. Good Luck! Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/01/30 00:22<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/01/30 18:39

The number one component is patients. You have to be willing to invest time. If your bird is wild then you have to invest a lot of time. There are several good books around on parrot behavior. If you are REALLY into trying to learn, there are several courses. This one is expensive, and you have to travel to them… http://www.naturalencounters.com/home.html This online course looks interesting… http://www.behaviorworks.org/ The first step is the step up step down command: http://exoticpets.about.com/od/behavior/a/birdtraining.htm The simple truth is you will have to invest a lot of time in developing a relationship with your Grey. Good Luck!<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/01/29 22:45

Hi, the thing to remember about Greys, and all birds for that matter, are animals whose metabolism, respiratory, cardiovascular and muscular structures were engineered to fly, that is they have very fast metabolisms. There is a reason miners took canaries into the mines, the birds metabolism would succumb to toxins faster then the men that carried them. Use care but don't be overly paranoid...if I could fingure that one out I could bottle it and sell it to every new parent! With that said use common sense, you don’t have to throw out all your hair products just don’t spray them around your bird. Watch out for number 2 on the list below…it is a fast killer. Here is a top 10 list taken from the web: From Lianne McLeod 1) Poisoning Birds are susceptible to a wide range of toxic substances which can injure or kill birds either by ingestion (eating) or inhalation (breathing them in). One of the most common toxicities in pet birds is insecticides sprayed in the home. Others include ammonia, bleach, oven cleaner, glues, nail polish remover, paint, perfumes, heavy metals (e.g. lead and zinc). Poisonous plants are also a danger. 2) Non Stick Coatings (when overheated) This technically falls under poisoning but warrants a special mention because use of these products is very common. When overheated, the non stick coating emits fumes that are very toxic to birds when inhaled. This coating is found on non stick cookware but also waffle irons, bread machines, irons, ironing board covers, curling irons, space heaters, blow dryers and more. 3) Open WaterToilets are the most common source of open water in the house, and it is all too easy for your pet bird to fall in and drown. Other water sources to watch for are sinks, bathtubs, buckets, and water bowls of dogs or cats. The kitchen can also be a dangerous place if there are hot pots of water on the stove. 4) Inappropriate FoodsThese range from those that are just unhealthy to those that might kill pet birds. Anything high in sugar or salt is inappropriate, as are fatty foods. More serious are things such as chocolate, which is toxic to many pets. Caffeinated or alcoholic beverages are also dangerous. Avocado should also be avoided (there is some debate about how toxic avocado is - better safe than sorry). 5) Electrical CordsBirds explore with their beaks, and exposed electrical cords pose a danger if bitten. Keep cords and appliances away from the bird cage, and conceal cords as much as possible. Covering exposed cords with corrugated plastic tubing (available at hardware stores) may help reduce the danger. 6) Poorly Made ToysEven toys designed for parrots may not be safe for them. Make sure your parrots (especially larger ones) are not able to break off or remove any parts and swallow them. Rope toys can also be dangerous if they are long enough to get tangles up in, and there have been cases of parrots separating the strands on braided ropes, inserting their heads, and strangling as a result. 7) Ceiling FansCeiling fans pose a real danger to flighted birds - serious injuries have occurred when birds fly into them. Birds tend to be nervous with things moving above them, so may be stressed out by a ceiling fan running near their cage. 8) Windows, Doors, and MirrorsWindows and mirrors pose a danger to birds who might fly into them. Keeping wings clipped helps to alleviate this risk, although even clipped birds can try a run at a window or mirror. Of course, open windows and exterior doors leave a chance at escape. Even interior doors can be risky if the bird likes to sit on the top of an open door - the bird could be injured if the door is closed. 9) Other PetsWhile birds often live happily with other household pets, owners should always be careful when other pets are near the birds. The motion of birds can attract the prey instinct of cats and dogs, and an infected bite or scratch can quickly be fatal to a bird. 10) Air QualityBirds are especially sensitive to contaminants in the air. Aerosol products of any kind should not be used around your bird. Cigarette smoke has been implicated in respiratory disease in pet birds. Carbon monoxide is also dangerous to birds, so use a carbon monoxide detector in the home, and be careful not to run your vehicle in an attached garage. :)<br><br>Post edited by: Qweevox, at: 2007/01/29 21:52