Trinkapuppy

Personally, I have a number of different birds of different sizes, and I never leave any of them together unless I'm standing RIGHT there. Even then, I don't tend to leave a very small bird like a GCC in beak reach of a much bigger bird like a CAG. It would only take 1/2 second of non-attention on my part, and the GCC could be maimed or worse. That's my personal take on it--I'm sure that others will have different recommendations. Congrats on the new addition, though, and good luck! =0 ) I just adore GCC's, and am currently looking to adopt one! hehe

I have always and will always use Virkon S for disinfection, and white vinegar for odor neutralization and general cleaning. That and my power washer. Virkon S is a powerful disinfectant, without being toxic. It's fairly inexpensive, and you can make up just small amounts at a time. It is one of the few things that will kill pretty much all of the major diseases out there more or less on contact. PBFD, chlamydia psittacosis, salmonella,MRSA, and even human HIV and AIDS. It is used very often by veterinarians as well as hospitals. It will NOT penetrate through waste, however, so in order to sterilize, the surfaces must be clean. Thus why I use power washers/vinegar to clean it all off. Generally, virkon is considered safe for birds--I wouldn't mist them in the face with it, but if it's not completely rinsed out of their cage, it's unlikely to cause a problem. To give an idea on how harmless, overall, it is, my job (prior to becoming a stay at home mom) was at a pet wholesaler--we specialized in fish and rodents, and carried some reptiles. Never birds. I oversaw medication of the fish when they arrived, and discovered from one of our collectors that Virkon S used directly in the water with the fish was very effective in battling a number of EXTREMELY stubborn bacterial diseases that cropped up during the stress of shipping halfway across the world in small bags. We put enough in to turn the water pink, and the fish were some of the healthiest shipped fish available on the market.....Yeah, fish aren't birds, but they are VERY sensitive to toxins. A decent "canary in the coalmine" so to speak. I use it off label for ringworm. I'm just super probe to getting it--if I LOOK at a cat that has it, I'll have two spots in under a week. I rub the powder directly onto it, and generally it's gone within 2-3 days. NOT that I'm recommending it for either off label use--fish or fungus! .....these are simply experiences I've had with it...... If anyone has had any BAD experiences with virkon, I'm very interested in hearing it.

Oh dear. That really sucks! =0 ( It is, of course, totally up to you...I know many who use hardware store sisal and swear to its safety. I'm overly cautious with things, and I tend to stay far, far away from that stuff and the stuff at the feed store. It just makes me too nervous. As a case in point, I have a bird playstand hanging outside for my clipped or harnessed birds, right next to a plat in a macrame net. The bird playstand has several of the overly smoothed branches wrapped in sisal that I purchased at a jewelry store that has had to be replaced twice in the past year. The potted plant, I made the macrame (yeah yeah, SOOO eighties, but I wanted to see if I could do it! ) out of hardware store sisal rope, and even though I water that plant every single day, it looks as good as the day I bought it. Granted the stand gets foot wear, but not all that much--maybe ten to fifteen minutes three times a week. Mostly the birds like to hang off the small atom I have hanging at the bottom, or sit on my lap. The lack of weather related decay makes me a nervous and relatively sure there are chemicals in there. But again, many use hardware store stuff w/out problems. My parents have a 12' x 3' net running the length of their bird room that they tied with stuff from Home Depot; it's been there for three years, and they swear everything is fine. I'm sorry I don't have a more solid answer for you, though I can tell you absolutely what I, personally, what I would do. Which is curse a whole lot, and have a bottle of wine while I unwrapped and re-wrapped the whole dang thing. And yeah. This is actually something I've done. I wrapped an entire hula hoop and made a number of toys with some jute from Lowes before I heard about that. NOT a happy camper......and yeah, it sucked.

Probably a good mix of both!!

....it does. It also makes my pocketbook feel good. I'm a true bargain hunter and do it your-self-er. (I think that's a nice way of saying that I'm cheap....LOL)

Sisal, jute, and hemp from the craft store in the jewelry department is generally chemical free, since it's meant to be worn on our skin. This is what I typically use. You'll pay more for it, but the peace of mind is worth it. And as birdhouse mentioned, there are also many places online to order it bird safe. I find my grey does just fine on 1/4" to 1/2" pipe wrapped in just about anything, or even just given channels with a dremel. The only PVC I glue is the hanging stuff. I like that I can slip it apart and modify it. I use a rubber mallet to knock together pieces that I REALLY want to stay together. As far as the size of holes on a net....I sorta just make them whatever feels right. I don't take the risk with any of the platings, though nickel is generally considered safe...I personally only use stainless steel. The cost is more significant, but you will have these forever, and be able to reuse them over and over and over. The galvanized ones don't last as long, anyway. Instead of quick links however, I do, in many cases, use those lots-o-links things you can get at walmart or target, 24 for $5. They're cheap, safe, can be a toy themselves, and I love hanging several in strategic places so I can just slip the jump ring for various toys on and off and move things around very quickly and easily. Carabiners are not safe, as they can spring closed into the hollow under the bottom mandible. Split rings are not safe, as they can amputate toes. Spring loaded quick links are not safe for similar reason to the carabiners. Open jump rings aren't safe, as part of a beak can slide in and then become trapped. For attaching things to the cage, another safe option is a plastic zip tie zipped nice and tight. Hope this helps. =0 )

I have a hula hoop that I wrapped in polycord suspended above the "little bird" cage (about $10 total to make it). I also have a stand that I made out of PVC that can hang from the ceiling. I also purchased a cheap one on clearance on bird.com that is a favorite, but I believe they're all sold out now. =0 ( Then there's the boing, and the big swings...one I made, one I bought....and a couple of baskets that I'll hang at times. I have a variety of hanging gyms that I'll trade out regularly to offer variety. I have 22' ceilings throughout most of my house, so it does make it somewhat difficult to have as many hanging locations as I'd like, but....oh well. You can also take the wrapped hula hoops and join them together to make a BIG "atom ball"--which I plan to do once Eshe has some ability to flap and regain her balance. As of now, with the severity of her wing trim, I've avoided having her any higher than her cage. I'll try to get pics of some of these in the next little bit. One thing that I do plan to do--should I ever be able to find them--is get some silly saucers to make suspended trays underneath of them as is shown in the DIY section on Land of Vos: (NOT my picture! That is from land of vos....but fairly self explanatory). Those darn saucers are hard to find in central Texas, even in the winter! For now, I just use a vinyl floor protector, but it might help you with the whole tray thing. =0 ) There are also some excellent tutorials for making cheap but very effective ceiling protectors out of PVC--just google "DIY PVC ceiling protector"

PVC and polycord to wrap the perch (vetwrap works, but polycord is just so much prettier! Couple of stainless steel eyehooks for the toys--I think those might have been the most expensive part. Whole project was probably....$20, including the pipe cutter? Which was $10. LOL The toy arm comes off for training, and on for when I want one of the birds entertained somewhere different. I will be buying some chlorplast to velcro to the bottom of the perch for easy removal for cleaning. Sesame Street placemats just aren't cutting it for me. Also, bought this crazy eight's foraging toy on clearance from bird.com: Crazy Eights Neither bird has had much interest, as the chain is a little short for free hanging in the cage, and being against the side makes them lose interest. Put it off the toy arm on this, and Eshe spent hours getting treats out of it. Had to refill it a dozen times. Eventually, she was just taking it out to throw it on the floor. This is fantastic, since I'm having a bit of a tough time getting her to eat enough to maintain her weight. Pardon the kitchen/hallway mess. It's mostly parrot toy pieces and...well, as you can see, a stand. And yes, Jynx the caique is far more interested in climbing to the top of the toy arm and doing his sexy dances (he's just hit his sexual maturity in the past month or so, based on behavior) than playing with the toys. Eshe LOVES the toys, however. LOL

Black Headed Caique. =0 ) I'm so....I dunno....kinda obsessed with their mouths and tongues. I almost can't help myself....LOL. Have a couple of scars on my fingers to prove exactly how stupid that is, too, when it comes to a bird I don't know that well, so yeah....smart to wait before you ever try something like that!!

Eshe cost me $600. She came with five big toys, a decent cage--probably about $350 new or so, a 25 lbs. bag of food (that I threw out, as it had been sitting partially open outside on her porch and in our 100 degree plus Texas days...yeah. Ick. So, we got a great deal on her, but she does come with some emotional baggage. And who can blame her? We're her fourth home in two years. We stopped at the vet on the way home, and dropped another $300 on paranoid owner testing--PDD, chlamydia psittacosis, CBC, full avian panel, PBFD, gram stain, fecal, etc. etc. not all of which is generally considered mandatory for a bird, but I already have several at home that I DO NOT want to risk, and with a history like hers....I just don't know where she's been. I already had most of the other supplies I needed for her. Bless bird.com and all of their cheap, CHEAP toys. Every time I order a cage, carrier, or perches, I tack on another $30-40 worth of $2 perches and $3 toys. We've gotten some pretty awesome things on there. Like, creative foraging systems toys for $2 each, and a couple of BIG cotton and wood toys for $3 each. I got a macaw sized swing for $1, once. Plus, I make my own toys. Which is a good thing, b/c she's chewed her way through nearly a toy a day since she got here. We have spent a small fortune at the health food store on various things in an attempt to find a way to spark her interest in eating and get some extra weight on her-not that she's interested in any of it. All said, I'm about $1000 in on her, not including the very large "nestegg" of parrot supplies I already had on hand. And I imagine will probably drop another grand before the end of the first year with her. After that, the annual cost should go down quite a bit. =0 ) Until I decide she needs a new cage, that is.

Both of my current parrots do that! It makes them look like a little kid. hehe Jynx, my BHC plays a game--he sticks his tongue out and waits until I touch it lightly with the tip of my finger, then he sticks it out the other side of his mouth. Eshe just seems to like sticking her out and wiggling it about from time to time. =0 )

That looks perfect, Popsicle =0 ) Remember, don't force the sleep cage....make it fun, and be sensitive to the bird's needs as you settle in to the routine. I was lucky with both of these two, but my redbelly when I had her took a lot of convincing. I had to give her a stuffed toy (I use the UNSTUFFED dog ones, actually. ) to cuddle with, and i had to get her scritches and love, along w/ an almond every night at bedtime, and it took us about a month to work up to her spending the night in there. But, once she did, it was fantastic, and we all got to sleep in! The amazon I had was old, old, old, and he never did take to the sleeping cage. Approach it like kennel training a dog. Introduce it, play a bit in/around it, offer treats everytime the bird goes into it, or scratches, or verbal praise, or whatever your bird enjoys from you.... I get up and take a peak at them once or twice during the first two or three nights, too...just to make sure that the idea isn't freaking them out too much. Of course, I've never had a baby bird to work with, and I would imagine that'll make a lot of difference

Good luck, Popsicle. Has worked well enough for us! =0 ) Healthier for them, too, since they get their full equatorial 12 hours of sleep. This is what we use for sleeping: http://www.bird.com/item/prevue-medium-travel-bird-cage/533600/ With a choice of a dragonwood perch, or a Polly's Sand Walk Orthopedic perch (which I wish dearly were easier to find. Best things for the nails since EVER!!) Also hung a tent, but she had zero interest, so the caique gets it now. =0 )

This is one of my favorite books, and has been since....well, I think I bought the first edition, when it first came out! In addition to that book, I highly recommend Clicker Training for Birds by Melinda Johnson I feel that the two books go very well together. They are both about positive interaction with your bird and how to use that to train your parrot out of bad behaviors/into good ones, all while your parrot is training you. Eshe loved teaching me to give her an almond every time she touched a chopstick with her beak or foot!!! Even if you have no intention at all of clicker training, this book is all about the psychology of positive reinforcement, and how, and why it works. It is very heavy on target training and using a click to mark the end of a desired behavior along with a treat, but it would be easy to replace the target with say, a finger, and the click with a consistently stated "good". Anyway, yeah. These are the two books I come back to time and again, along with Mattie Sue Athan's much more basic "Guide to a Well Behaved Parrot" for my husband, or a loaner to someone without a whole lot of bird experience.

I was having problems with my black headed caique waking up my young daughters at 5am....which led to all sorts of trouble in the house. A poorly rested toddler is NOT a joy to be a stay at home mommy to!! So, I did a little research, and decided that the concept of a "sleeping cage" was one I wanted to try. We got him a small cage, and moved it into the master bedroom with hubby and I. It does get covered, but that's because he prefers to be covered at night. Jynx took to it almost immediately, and we have actually seen improvements in more areas than just an early wake-up. He seems more relaxed in general, and more "in tune" with hubby and I, his screaming has tapered off in the day times, and the moderate cage aggression he showed (he charged when I attempted to switch his toys) tapered off to nothing, and at night when we say "ready to go to bed?" he pins his eyes and wing flips his excitement to go to bed all the way to the bedroom. He often will hop off and fly the last few feet to put himself away. He is quiet now until hubby and I get up in the morning. Even coming in to bed later at night doesn't seem to bother him. He is a bit cage aggressive over the sleeping cage which is not uncommon, but since he's only in there for sleeping, it is very manageable. When we brought home our grey, she was also surprisingly amenable to the concept of it. Although she won't go to bed until we do (something I'd like to work on, as we stay up too late for her) she does come to bed with us, and sleeps in until I get up. Which is really nice, b/c the two times she told me she didn't want to go to bed, she was up with the sun, practicing her budgie and 'tiel calls. =/ Last night, I was going to leave her in her cage, b/c she was sound asleep in the corner when we went to bed, and I wasn't positive what she thought of the sleeping cage arrangement--she has always seemed very blase about it. However, as I was brushing my teeth, we heard a racket from her cage, and went out to find a very frantic little grey trying to get out of her cage. That said, she has NO problems being in a room on her own, and she doesn't even mind sleeping in her cage when we're not home--we had a house sitter only this weekend while we were out one night who slept in the guest room, and checked on her a couple of times and said she just went to sleep in her cage with no problems. I just think she did not like the idea that we were going to roost for the night without her. Anyway, it's just a thought. I realize not everyone has the setup/need for such a thing, but also realize that many folks haven't ever heard of the concept behind sleeping cages...and I, for one, like having options! PS: we use a $35 bird carrier for Eshe. I also like the idea that I can simply grab their carriers on the way out of the house should we have a fire or some similar disaster. The dogs sleep in portable crates for the same reason! Honestly, my daughters will be harder to get out, in an emergency! 0.0 A fact I hadn't really thought of before! LOL.....Can I train them to sleep in quick-to-grab carriers? (JOKING!!!)

Thank you, everyone, for the kind words. =0 ) Eshe and I are happy to have each other. I'm looking forward to my husband being able to handle her some--but at least she doesn't bit and attack him. Jynx and hubby are becoming even closer, as Jynx is snubbing me some--mad about the new bird--reminds me of my older daughter when my younger came on the scene. =0 ) I maintain his routine, allow him to rebuff me when he needs to, and soon enough he'll realize he's still getting the same attention. I have always planned to add birds, so I have always given him downtime and taught him to play on his own even when I'm not particularly busy. Eshe let me flip her onto her back several times now, and we're making "giving hugs" into a treat-reward game. =0 ) I slide a finger under her wing when I can, and treat her give praise when she lets me, even for a second. She seems to be more motivated by verbal praise than any animal I've ever had, which is great. It's not that I want her to be as "hands on" as Jynx (who loves whole body cuddles and love), just that I am keeping the future (harness training, wing maintenance, vet checkups, etc.) in mind. All of which will be much easier if she at least tolerates body touching, knowing she will be rewarded for tolerating it. Given how fast she's coming around though (she already enjoys scratches on her entire head, bare skin around the eye rubs, and ruffling the feathers down the first few inches of the back) I have a feeling she may end up one of the more "hands on" greys I've met personally. I'm taking advantage of our honeymoon period--not pushing her to the point of risking her trust--but using the leeway I have now to add as many new behaviors as I can before she gets more stubborn.=0 ) Right now, she's on top of her cage, taking all of the toys out of the big foot toy basket I gave her, and laying them out on the tray (I don't leave the play perch on--gets in the way and I can't reach up to take her down w/out a stool-->me=short!) in rows, so she can pick out the ones she most wants to play with. I just love watching her interact with her world! I do wish she were more food oriented--I would really love to start her on some foraging behaviors. But in the meantime, she is finding lots of things to do with her day. When she start vocalizing excessively, I wait for a quiet moment, and then simply move her to somewhere new, and give her some toys to play with and some cardboard to shred. =0 )

I agree with everything Birdhouse said--you need to talk to former Daddy and decide, between the two of you, what future plans are. These need to be considered when you determine how to handle Buster from here on out. I have not dealt with this precise situation with a grey, but I have had a red bellied parrot go through similar, and I am currently working with out newly adopted grey who loves me and not so much anyone else. Have you considered doing some target training sessions? I find target training is incredibly helpful, as it is easy to master the very basics, and it gives you both a common goal to work toward--he's teaching you to give him a treat every time he touches the stick, and you're teaching him specific behaviors that are bite and anxiety free! Eshe attacked my husband if he tried to touch her for several days. With a little bit of target training, she is already allowing him to step up--and that's after one day. Now....don't expect those kinds of results every time, but it might just reinforce and bring forth some of the bond that has lapsed between you.... Here is an excellent video on the very basics: Building Trust with Your Bird I use a chopstick for a target stick (that gets replaced occasionally when someone steals it and chews it up--pointed link at Jynx) and I alternate between using the clicker and saying "good" and just saying "good". Hubby works with both of the birds about 2-3 minutes a day, and the difference was noticeable after just a few sessions. And Jynx will often bring the chopstick to one of us and drop it in our hand if I leave it out somewhere. Good luck with him--I'm sure that in the end, everything will work out for the three of you. His applecart is just overturned. =0 )

You may or may not have read my threads in the welcome lounge, and my slightly panicky threads asking for advice on a few things. I have had Eshe home for a week and a half now, and we are taking full advantage of the honeymoon period. I started target training her today--after FINALLY finding a couple of food items she will work for--almond pieces and cheese. Since she does have a calcium deficiency, so near as we can tell, these are both great things! She will step up for my husband--not with great joy, but without bloodshed! From either me, my husband, or the floor, she will step up for my four year old (who always asks first!) and she lets me or my four year old give her scratches--though does not tolerate them from my two year old or my husband. Her diet when she arrived was ONLY zupreem pellets. She still won't take anything much better--she's making me crazy by feeding ALLL of the harrison's to the dogs--SOOO expensive! (FYI: Harrison's can be ordered on Amazon Prime at a decent price recently). I have some roudybush on the way. She takes the lafaebers occasionally, which is a similar shape, so here's for hoping! In the meantime, although she won't take any fruits or vegetables, she DOES eat the tinkerbell mash I have in the freezer. Which is GREAT b/c I don't really have anyone to share the extra's with, and Jynx can't eat it all himself! Although I halve the recipe, I still would have ended up tossing nearly half of it. I have been adding a D3/calcium supplement and a vitamin A supplement to it, as well. Just small amounts. She is already looking SO much better. Her feet have stopped peeling, and her skin is healthy looking--not super white and flaky. She will also destroy anything I put on her skewer as if it were a toy--she's not eating it, but at least she's getting used to the taste. She keeps trying to pretend she's phobic, but I've noticed that if I introduce a new toy of some sort, she will act all puffy and scared, but if I immediately leave the room for ten minutes, she's playing with it by the time I come back. She has had NO evidence of feather picking since the third day I had her. The little bald spot under her feathers has filled back in with down, and she is SO much kinder to her tail. I sat and made toys for her for a couple of hours the other day--sadly, most of my 'parts' are for small parrots like my caique, but I still managed to make quite a few foot toys, and some great in cage toys. She 'helped' watching and commenting the entire time. Once I put them in, and moved some of the perches that were beside her cage for desensitizing her, she literally didn't come back out of the cage for the entire day. She just spent the day moving about her cage, checking out different perches, toys, and exploring. She seems so much happier in there than she used to. I got the "parrot guy" (he has several large birds, though no greys) across the street to towel her so she couldn't see me, and hopped into the room and made quick work of using the dremel to shorten her nails, so I can now handle her easily. She was surprisingly accepting of the procedure, and even gave me a "hug" afterward, and didn't seem to blame me at all for it. Within an hour, we were back to normal. When we go to bed, we bring her into the bedroom with us--she sleeps for awhile before that, but doesn't like going to bed without us. She then hangs out on the bed for about half an hour while we brush our teeth and then read for 15 minutes before bed. While we read, she has a book of her own that she shreds. When I pick up her book and clean up all the little pieces, she says "Bedtime, Eshe!" (she already knows her name!) and steps up to go into her sleeping cage. Someone in her past taught her to give sweet kisses, and when she gets aggressive, if you ask for "nice kisses" she will reach very gently toward your cheek and make kissy noises. Generally, it calms her right down, and gives me a chance to step away when we're both comfortable with each other, rather than one of us having to give in to the other. We have been taking advantage of her TERRIBLE wing clip (so many, many feathers =0 ( and going outside to soak in some vitamin D....I believe that greys may be like reptiles, in that they aren't particularly adept at absorbing D through their digestive tract. I spent a lot of time and effort studying the process when I was breeding some rare and expensive chameleons, and I know that it is very similar for humans and birds--I have a very high end complete spectrum reptile bulb--the bird ones do not cover as big of a spectrum, and the way the bulbs are made, they often rely on neodymium for UVA, which burns off rather rapidly even in the light. The human SAD treatment and reptile fluorescent bulbs are made much more similarly, so we will be using the reptile fluorescent (incandescent UV bulbs are worthless, and create too much unwanted heat). We will install there in the winter, and in the summer, we will use the natural lighting. I have also re-screened a window screen with very large weave mesh, which stops far less of the UV than the window screens we normally have. Sure, I get some flies from the nearby cattle fields, but that's what fly swatters are for!! I have built her a nice windowsill perch, and she spends several hours there, often with her head down and wings slightly spread like she's literally bathing in the sun. We have discovered that she will let us do ANYTHING if she gets to sit on our shoulder. Including take a shower with us. This is a three times a week ritual now, and may be a large contributor in her healthy skin. I hated going after her with the water bottle--she just hated it so bad! She has a HUGE vocabulary, though she prefers the whistles, and has learned the particular tone Jynx uses that makes me cringe. =/ Thankfully though, both of them are using it less now, as I continue to ignore it completely. All said and done, I let the perception of African Greys as being difficult--near impossible--get in the way of my seeing the bird underneath. She is a parrot, as my others were. We are in for many wonderful times, and many difficult times, as we learn to merge two entirely different worlds into a single happy family unit. But we are already beginning to form a bond, and I anticipate that bond lasting for a long, long time. She isn't a cuddly bird, but I have that in Jynx. In her, I wanted an intelligent companion, someone to help me fill my days. Once the girls are both in school, I will be on my own during the day, and someone to care for will help me be more motivated. I feel, after only a week and a half, that I have that in my Eshe. My entire family is enthusiastic about her and her future with us. Jynx....not so much, but he'll come around. I still make sure to give him the same love and attention as always. A bird is a companion, not a pet. I have scoffed in the past at the thought that we have "companions" and not "pets" but a bird talks to us in our own language. A bird is our equal. A bird loves as much as it is loved. While this is true of dogs and cats, and I never mean to undermine the value of a dog or other animal as a family member--the bird loves knowledgeably. The choose to give us their trust when we earn it. More so than any other pet I have ever owned. And the bond becomes so much deeper and more complete. Honestly, I find it second only to the bond with my family--my girls and my husband. Maybe it makes me anti-social that I find my birds are more dependable as companions than friends--but I spend so much more time with them. I still appreciate my friends, love them, and want to spend time with them. But at the end of the night, when I come home, it's my birds I kiss goodnight and my birds who will be there in the morning. I think she did have a rough start, but in some ways, I think that rough start has given her the ability to accept change without imploding, and I have gotten her young enough that she'll hopefully just remember the positives of her life here with us. I am excited and thrilled to spend the rest of my life with this baby--my eternal two year old--and I thank God that I found her and was able to give her a good, forever home. Sorry for the novel....that's just me.

Thank you! I'll try that, and see how she responds. =0 ) I might have the parrot guy across the street come over and squirt her down so that she doesn't associate me with it for the time being.....

D'awwww!!! I keep thinking "I want a quaker!" Then I think "Too loud!" Then I think "and my caique isn't?" And then I stall and stall, and never end up getting one. I'll just live vicariously through the beautiful pictures other folks post for now....

Talon; I have been using target training with a clicker to shape behaviours and expand them into what I want. I found a number of videos, and have read several books on positive reinforcement. I have to say--I find the system is almost miraculous with birds, but I don't find it so effective with dogs. Maybe I just talk "bird" better than dog. With Eshe, food doesn't work yet--not enough trust, and currently she will ONLY eat those garishly coloured pellets, which she doesn't seem to care enough about to work for. (really, every almond I give her ends up whole, on the tray underneath). She's also still a bit phobic, so husband and I have been using small amounts of "negative reinforcement". That is, when a desired behavior is executed, you remove the unwanted object from the place (in this case, we remove ourselves when she behaves correctly). We have been using this to teach her not to bite, but to be gentle and give us good body language, "no", or a gentle push away. We have made excellent progress in just a few days using this technique, and she's learning to trust us--that we aren't going to punish her when she behaves poorly. However, in order to get us out of her space when she doesn't want us there, she has to communicate with us. If she doesn't--if she just tries to bite us--we stay put until she remembers her manners. I'm hoping to get some videos up and show some of the shaping processes for the behaviors, but if you haven't worked with clicker training, or don't know the psychology behind it, I cannot recommend Clicker Training for Birds by Melinda Johnson strongly enough. It's a bit dry, b/c it goes into the technical aspects for why it works--the deep psychology behind the training, more than just "here's how you do it", but I like knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing. =0 ) Zoom--my parents are in British Columbia. =0 ) The entire family does originate from Ontario, though....being military, we are now scattered everywhere. My grandparents still live in North Bay, Ontario. They think those of us with parrots are nuts, though. LOL One of my aunts also lives there, but she's a dog rescue person, and decidedly NOT a bird person. Edited to add an update for the day: She is still pretty distrustful. Again, seeing the interaction in her formal home, this really is not a surprise. Even so, she came and sat on my lap for awhile earlier today. She really REALLY wanted to climb to my shoulder, but she didn't get nearly as stressed over being in my lap as one might expect. She even let me give her some nice deep scratches over her head, and let me slide one finger under her wing without getting upset. She still hasn't let me inspect her wings, but the bit I've seen from flapping, her primaries are all terribly chewed. Her previous owner admitted in an email that she (makes me want to cry) clipped her wings while the wings were folded, b/c she didn't know how to restrain her. I can only imagine the hack job that she's hiding. =0 ( She has terrible stress bars--the vet and I discussed, and believe that they are from the constant rehoming combined with a terrible diet. (Zupreem pellets, and NOTHING else. She won't even eat sunflower seeds or almonds. The fruit and veggie skewers I have given her have been reduced to so much dog forage....but at least she's getting it in her mouth!!!) You can see the chew job she's done on her tail, and the flash really highlighted her stress bars well. And Oh, my gosh. She just stepped up while I was videoing her getting a scritch (my parents want to see her progress.) and after she stepped up, she actually let me, briefly, open a wing. Every primary, secondary, leaving only the tertiaries...cut to the level of the coverts. I cried for her. Literally. It breaks my heart. That's not a close wing clip...that's someone who has NO idea what they're doing. My gosh, what this girl must have gone through. You can see in this video how gentle she's gotten about moving my hand away from her when I do something she doesn't like. Still working on figuring out what she likes for head scritchies. Previous Owner just patter her head, so scratching is either long forgotten or brand new for her. BUT. Instead of biting when she's not thrilled, she just pushes my finger away. I don't go back to scratch more unless her body language says that it's OK. She surprises me at the end of this scritch with a stepup. The sudden ending is because I was not expecting this, and didn't have my arm positioned correctly to prevent that rapid climb to the shoulder. Once I got her on the other hand--properly held--she stepped up to my husband and let him scratch her for once (she's pretty female oriented). I then took her to her sleeping cage and put her in, but she clearly said "no" and walked out, so she's currently sleeping on top of her cage door. If things go like last night, she'll go to her sleeping cage right when we go to bed. I'd like her to get more sleep, but I want her to know that she gets clear say in what happens to her. She does nap a lot, too, at least. Unlike Jynx. BTW; can you hear the noise she makes right as I start recording? At first, I thought that was a growl, but she seems to make it as a greeting. Does anyone recognize that grunting noise, or is it something that is all her?.......

Yeah, lack of species specific experience is why I'm here pestering everyone. A month of knowledgeable experience is worth more than all the books I can read, and internet I can find. Since I don't have it--I lean on ppl who do. I will pick that product up if she doesn't improve soon. I guess another concern is...her skin, where I can see it, does appear to be dry and flaky--more so than my other birds. I have google'd for images of the skin between the feathers on greys, but I can't get close up enough, and I don't have enough experience to know if it's normal for her skin to be dryer and more flaky. She is TERRIFIED of the squirt bottle (she runs to the back of the cage if I even pick it up, so I'm assuming that she's been squirted for noise at some point past). I tried all three spray bath bottles I have--they all look dramatically different--they all scare her. I walked her into the bathroom when the shower was running (she seems to really like slow tours around the house once every few hours) and she started growling and got some pretty aggressive body language going, so we backed out quickly. I would try putting a kitty litter pan (never used for kitty's) of water in the bottom of her cage like I do for the 'keets and 'tiels but she's still pretty leery of new objects being in her cage. I may try rigging up my reptile mister for her for a few hours--that's what Jynx used before he was comfortable in the shower. But if that freaks her out.... What do I do? Just force a shower on her? If the picking is b/c she's itchy, then it might help. If it's b/c she's stressed, it'll do the opposite...... I am going to the store right now to buy a humidifier to keep near her cage. The old one is...old...and triggers my allergies, which means it has some mold, so time for a new one! Thank you for the product suggestion--if she keeps this up for long, I'll definitely pick it up and figure out how to try it! LOL

OK, I've talked y'all's ears off about Eshe. But I do have another question already. I have not worked with a parrot that picks actively. I have had one or that arrived picked, but ceased to do so once they got here. Eshe, on the other hand, continues to pick a little bit. She has a small area right over her keel bone that she's cut most of the feathers in half on, and she seems to be picking the down feathers out from between her other feathers. She also has picked a couple of tail feathers out, and when she preens the three that are left, she is HARD on them. She doesn't seem to spend an inordinate amount of time preening there--like she does on her chest--but when she does preen it, she CHEWS her way up the feather, and then YANKS it out of her mouth hard enough that she often wobbles on her perch from the force when it pops out. Most of her flight primaries also appear chewed up, but I haven't seen her chewing them, and I suspect she's chewing where she was clipped, as the previous owner apparently clipped her when her WINGS WERE CLOSED!!! AGH! and the clip is very uneven. I suspect that she's chewed them to even them out and stop them from poking her. She does have stress bars EVERYWHERE and I'm not sure if part of the reason some of the feathers are split is just because they are weak, or if she's actually sheering them in half.... Her diet and eating habits are appalling (granted, not as bad as it COULD be, but bad nonetheless), and the vet figures that between that and being rehomed 4 times in two years, she has a right to have some stress bars. He also cautioned me not to be dissapointed if we see some--but hopefully a lot fewer--in her next moult. Anyway. I'm rambling. Who, me? Nah! Never! So, what do I do when I notice her working on these picked areas? is it best to go and interrupt her when I notice her working on her chest? Should I stop her working on her tail? I'm hoping this is stress related, and that she'll stop once she settles in more, but in the meantime, any recommendations on how to deal with her

Thank you, luvparrots. I love them too! But then, I'm biased. Well, here's the first video I've gotten to shoot of Eshe--considering that she apparently HATED the 4 year old in the previous home, this is very positive interaction. Then again, Kennedy has a natural way with the animals that flabbergasts some people. The four year old....did not. LOL You can also go find many other vid's of Jynx. My favorite is the sneaky Jynx one, where he breaks into the seed container (they only get a little bit daily, and apparently he decided that wasn't enough! Fruits and veggies are one thing, but c'mon, seeds are the best!!) I have since changed my storage methods.