FredGrey

Thank-you zandische for your well written and thought-provoking reply. What I've been reading around the web and on several forums, is that clipping a parrot is not a solution for keeping a bird from escaping. If a parrot does escape the bird stands a far better chance of survival if they are left unclipped - which means that recovery is also more likely. I am not interested in entering a clipping debate - this is simply what I've been reading. What is most interesting to me is how *far* away from home lost greys seem to be found. My birds have always been within a block or so when I've found them. I am amazed at the distance greys will travel when they escape. Thanks again for the replies!

Yes I've read that conures are "strong fliers" as well. Mine has not made it out the door and hopefully never will! Thanks for the replies!

First off - I have to say how happy I am to hear that you recovered Emma. I read about your loss in several different places as well! As I've said before the parrot community, at least the community that is closely involved with their birds, seems very close-knit and it is a shame if anyone tries to divide such a community. I've always felt that parrots are far more resilient to changes in temperature than we give them credit for. I've never worried about draughts and the like with my birds. It is sooo great to hear that she is back! She must have had a great adventure!! That's all I've ever done with my birds as well - but it has served me well in the past. I guess, should I decide to get a grey, I should be doubly careful about the environment and the chances for escape... I read somewhere, once... I kind-of forget where... But someone said something like, "after owning conures for a while I decide I would get a grey. After all, how different could they be? Very. very. different". It's stuck in my mind...

Thanks sooo much for the replies! I knew greys were different but I had no idea how different... But is your bird flighted? Does he/she come to you in the home? I understand that recall training involves training outside and this is scary to me too. It makes sense to me to teach a parrot to come to you even if only indoors. This way if the worst does happen then there is a fighting chance to recover your bird *if* it escapes. At least that's what I've done with my birds in the past and then they've come to me if they've escaped outside. But it sounds to me that I've got a lot more research to do!! As for microchipping and banding - yes - if it increases your chances of recovery even by a fractional percentage then it is worth it... very true. Thanks for that luvparrots!

Interesting. I've read elsewhere that parrots, especially the larger ones, develop long term relationships with people and will recognize and come to their previous owners many years after they had separated. I am wondering if there is a problem with my definition of wild vs tame... I am in total agreement that wing clipping and microchiping or banding are not the answers to prevention or recovery of an escaped parrot. From what I've read wing clipped parrots can still fly very well if needed (spooked) and I agree that both microchipping and banding depend a lot on the people that find the bird. This being said I am/was a great believer in getting a bird to come when called. This has allowed me to recover birds from nearby trees and hedges in the past (budgies and cockatiels). I would simply put out a finger and call their name and they would fly to me from wherever they were. If a grey flys 6Km on a first flight "out the door" then it makes it that much harder to recover the bird when it escapes. I had no idea that they were such powerful flyers! In my experience a bird that was kept in the home and only flew room-to-room did not have the capability to fly very far on its first flight... Thanks for the response!

OK - I've been reading about greys and their great cognitive ability for some time now. I've researched diet and I've look at many other aspects of grey behaviour but I am still confused about one major thing. The recent issue with Emma flying away also got me thinking. Over the years I've had parrots escape occasionally but I've always retrieved them from within a block or so of where I live. I believe in flighted birds and, over the years, it is pretty much a given that at some point in time a parrot will fly out the door. My birds have always stayed within a short distance of home, though and, because I work on what I've recently learned is "recall training", they come back to me when I call. This doesn't seem to be the case with Greys from all the threads I've read here and on other boards. One Youtube video says a lot: Is it true that it is harder to recall a grey if they escape? Because I strongly believe in flighted parrots I think what I learn about this subject will strongly impact my decision on whether or not to get a grey. Fred

Very Glad to hear this! And glad to hear a park worker was astute enough to notify a rescue!

It probably comes from having had birds... My first parrot, a Budgie from K-mart (back when they used to sell live animals) was, hmmm, not a well thought out purchase... But we did have a good time for a few years. I've learned a lot since then and am still learning.

I don't believe the onus of proof is on me, it is the other way round... On the one(s) making the accusation. That was also how it was phrased in the thread by Talon. But I have had parrots for over 20 years - always small ones though (budgies, cockatiels and conures). I am considering a grey and decided to check out this forum (it does come up on google searches). Anyway - it is not my intention to "stir the pot". I just feel I don't have much to contribute right now... I am reading about greys and their habits and learning capabilities. I've met a few in rescues - and have been impressed by their calm-cool-collected manner (for the most part). I know there must be more too it than that - since my parrots also have behaved differently in different situations. I also am curious about health and diet and have read-through many of the stickies in the Health Room. I remember, in "Alex and Me" Dr. Pepperburg's grey had Aspergillosis and the explanation by Dave? in the sticky in the health room made it pretty clear what can cause it and how to avoid it... So my contributions, at this time anyway, will be somewhat limited. After owning parrots, the consideration of adoption of another long-lived bird must not be taken lightly or on the spur of the moment. That's my opinion anyway...

Initially I was a bit put-off. But that was a first response. After thinking about it for a while, and reading through a few more threads and posts what you say is pretty clear. There is no question in my mind that the vast majority of parrot people are caring individuals. IMO it takes a special type of person to work with parrots. Anyway - I'll certainly continue reading through the forums and may post from time-to-time... Hopefully I'll choose better topics to post on!

Over the past few days I've been debating how to reply to all this fuss. I figure I should get it out from my point of view. I'm not sure if I've chosen the right words and it is definately not my intention to create more debate or a mountain out of a molehill... I just see people wondering. First off... I would like to thank the administrators and moderators for their work. It seems like a hard and sometimes thankless no-win job sometimes. Not one that I'd really want to take-on myself. Secondly I would like to thank the members of this forum who have reacted in such a positive way. We all know that it takes a special kind of person to own a parrot - and there are few exceptions to the type of caring individuals that become true parrot people. I've been reading through this forum for some time. I have gone through the threads on grey cognition, training, feeding and have seen a few of the threads on wing clipping. I recently read the thread on Emma's loss in Montreal and hope that she will recover her bird. In other words I've been reading through this forum for quite a while. About a week ago I created an account on this forum and, at pretty much the same time, noticed the thread that Talon mentioned. I read through it and found that it was surprisingly similar to another thread on another forum... And that there had been a previous thread on that other forum that was also similar, but had just disappeared. I made a comment, primarily in response to Ozzysmom (since it was pretty obvious that we had both seen the same threads) that (and I can't remember the exact words - and the thread has since been removed), "it seems to me that the person posting in the other forum had a vendetta against [the company in question]". After that things went off the wall... I believe I made two other posts - not really defending the business practices of the company (since I agree there seem to be problems) but questioning whether or not it was a "scam" to get money from people. That seemed to further inflame the situation - so I stopped posting. I should note that I had purchased from that company (I said it in the thread) with no issues. Perhaps this shouldn't have been my first post - but I felt a familarity with the people and the board... So I simply made that comment. It is unfortunate that such a post should cause so many issues. Especially if a moderator (which I believe is a thankless job anyway) resigned from this. So I hope people will excuse me if I simply lay low and continue my lurking status. I enjoy reading the threads and will continue reading them. Since I am not a grey owner (yet) I will probably read for the most part as I work out the issues of grey ownership (when you are in your thirties and you take-on a long lived bird one has to think a while!). At this point I am not sure that I have much to contribute beyond this. Fred