sinaigem

Thanks for info - no i do not provide her with this but i will in the future . It sound like a good way of keeping her busy .

Hi DAve thanks for your answer , i appreciate it , o.k i get that there is things i do wrong , what is the alternative for getting her in the travelling box? i tried to make her step on a stick which she does , but then if i want to move her towards the travelling cage she flies off. Would it be better if i cut her flying feathers? Yes i actually got her a second bird thinking that o.k if she does not want to be with us maybe she will at least not be unhappy alone . But since the second is gone i will have to make her living conditions different because i think, to sit alone in an aviary is not healthy . So what is your suggestion : Do i put her inside again in the house in a smaller cage ? I can do that but the travellng is not going to change . Is it better to let her travel in an open cage so she sees what is happening or do i cover her so she is not frightend .Do i take her in her living cage but then i have to put her in a for my taste too small cage . the stress of catching her would be gone though. yes Dave i do want a friendlier bird, this is my desire . And i provide her with what ever i think is good for her (toys ect. ) I also try to spend as much time as i can spare around her . I just thought being in an aviary gives me the opportunity to be with her and train her while she cant fly away . When she was in the house she used to panic and fly against the wall when i came to close to her stand, so no way of letting her step up . I could do that in the aviary and she could not get hurt .I am asking for advise because i made mistakes with her , this is why i am asking for help from people which have more practical experience then i do . I think i read almost every page i found on the internet about greys , i informed myself as much i could in books but now i am stuck with personal conditions and would be happy if somebody could give me advise of how to handle the situation as best as i can .

Wow ! you are right to the point here ! I will try to answer all your questions as good as i can. Oer the 6 years situations have changed a lot of times ( i relocated to another city ) sometimes i have more time for her , sometimes she was left pretty much with her companion because she seemed happy then . As i also have 2 boys to take care of there was times where i just left her living with us in her cage and be . Well when i got her i did not know anything about parrots and i for sure made mistakes , not knowing i did them . I placed her in the middle of the house , because i was told she should be in an busy area so she would get used to all the household members . I realized very soon ( by reading ) and doing that that is not a good idea . then she was in a cage ( big enough for her to spread her wings I would say the cage is about 100 x120 high . I left her out pretty soon maybe after a week or so and after a day or so she came out . she would come to my dining room table and she would eat seeds about 1 meter away form me . She was not as terrified but never closer then 1 meter . I left her pretty much going and coming as she wanted . She had a T stand next to her cage which she got used to as well . Never played with any toys . Never let me come closer then this range. Growling bad! . If she went on the floor she had to come up on her own me far away . IN the evening she would go to her cage and go to sleep . aFter a year of this - not much change i got the captian. He was much friendlier but not really tame . Would not let me touch him . They bonded ! After about 3 weeks they chose to live in one cage . After another month or so i took the second cage off. They were happy - i was too. then i relocated house and we came to cairo . they were first placed in a cage in the house . Both scared and not so happy . The house was much smaller and i had 3 kids with me for a year - my husband was not happy with them in the house . So i build a big aviary in the garden . She is located right in front of the terrace and has view into the house . the aviary has her cage inside so she can retreat , if she wants to . Well then the captian ( second parrot ) escaped . IN all this time she never stopped growling and i was never allowed to handle her or come close . The captian by now was also more scared because i think of her behavior. - They seemed o.k and i even saw them mating but never gave them a box. They by now were both on a diet ( they only got seeds before i got them ) of all kind of fruits and veggies , seeds nuts , yogurt , some times cheese ect. The captian flew a way . she showed no distress after . I was really worried she would start picking or anything else - i saw no diffrence in her behavior . So i stared to try to clicker train her . Since she was alone i thought i have to busy her a bit more . She has all kind of diff. toys in her aviary , swings , tyres ect. She seemed quite o.k She started to step up on a stick . she loves to pick on tree or palmtree(dried) leaves , or she bites thte roof ( material cotton ) from her aviary - she actually shredds it . She only articulates in the morning or before sunset. I rarely hear her during the day except if somebody comes in to the garden that she does not know . Then she makes a certain sound like a bird does . dont know how to describe it but i know by now it is the sound of - hey there is somebody ! I liketo sit in her cage and i will sit on the floor talking to her . As long a she is on top of me she is tolerating me but if i am above her she panickes . ( unfortunately i have to travel with her every couple of week s- we are commuting ) I cannot get her in her travelling cage with out catching her with gloves - major stress for her . But i have nobody to look after her when i have to go back to sharm. So i have to collect her. While travelling she is covered and by now she seems to be at least o.k with it . IN sharm she is in her old cage but also outside on the terasse . I am a lot around and she has view into the house . NObody bothers with her any more - she managed to put all of my friends and family off by her horrible sounds. So it is only me interacting with her. at the moment i can get into her cage and walk around and take her food bowl and she would not growl but as soon as i turn my attention to her or face her or try to make her step up she is a doberman. Also as long as i am alone totally she is much better - anybody around - she is really immediately growling .I dont think i will get the baby so soon. AS it looks like i will wait for another 2 years then i am stable again in sinai . MOre peace for me and the birds. I really appreciate any advise and help . I know my circumstances at the moment dont help at all but are not changeable for the next 2 years . if i could handle her she could come back inside the house so this is what i am working on at the moment . Yes she is not clipped and she never tried to bite me. But i never forced her to do so I really try to listen to her and give her the space she needs . Catching her with the gloves hurts me more then her i guess because it is always a step back for a while . She does not like any toys that are out of plastic or colorful she prefers twigs , wood , Cotton in nature colors . She likes to shredder things LIke the bycicle tyre which is her swing . she needs a new one at least ever month or two . IN cairo we cant get toys for bird so i resource to selfmade toys . a cotton mob or wooden creations . She always needs a few days of not touching them then she destroyes them in no time . You are the first mail i get who really wants to know more in detail what is happening to my madam . Thank you again and i hope to hear from you soon . HOpefully my info is any good and if i left anything out please ask for more details . Oh yes she is now on a pellet diet ( with very little seeds and lots of greenery. with gratitude Susi Dont really know what you mean with foraging , could you explain please ?

I really want to thank you for your reply Dave and you are right one would think that she would go for her favorite treat - well she loves sees , sunflower seed and i have taken it of her menu completely for about 4 weeks - she was on pellets only , and no luck she has the patience to wait until i leave far enough for her to feel unthreatend. I tried all kind of things - pine , almonds , peanuts grapes , but i will not give up and just accept her stuborn ness as a challange for me . I just feel she could be so much happier if she would let me befriend her .WEll maybe one day ! i keep trying and again thanks for ur time

HI , i have a bird in a similar situation . Hope you are doing good with yours ! I have a question which sounds silly , my madam does not except treats from my hand . HOw would you give them ? i put them in a bowl and eventually she takes them . Any advise of how to gat her to take them from m hand ?Thank you for any help !

Good luck to yur babies , i wish i could get them !!! But location not possible . Egypt does not allow birds in since the birdflue panic. Anyway i hope they will find a great home!

Thank you very much for your answer and yes i will try to post some pics from her and the late captian. She is named madame . And yes i was hearing this before that she is a wild caught - living in egypt i guess there is a lot of smuggling going on . I also considered of not buying her because i do not agree with the wild catching business , but she looked really miserable ,and she was kept in a dark room in a tiny cage - i could not not buy her . She def. has a better life then in this pet shop. Of course not better then in the wild. I am looking now for ababy from a breeder - because i am not sure she will want a playmate and so i will get myself the bird i desire and maybe only maybe she will be learn from the baby . Anyway thanks for your advise and i hope i will still be able to learn a lot from your members .

Hi everyone i joined this forum yesterday and i am really glad i did . Already read a lot of great info. My name is susi and i live in Egypt . Have a rescue since 6 years and am still not any closer then in the beginning . My madam is not getting tame whatever i try to do . l never intended to get her but like with my dogs once i took her in i think i am very dedicated to give my animals the best . Now with her i am at the end of my wits and first time in my life think : maybe i am not the right person to be with her . As i mentioned earlier i have her since 6 years could not get her to accept me , even all the tips i got - giving her time - talking to her , singing to her , she would until now not except a treat from my hand . I cant handle her - she learned how to step up on a stick - would never step on my hand . Yes we had some bad luck - i got her a friend , the captain , and after 3 years he unfortunalty could get out and flew away . I looked for him for weeks but could not find him again . She was very happy with him, they decided to live in one cage and did everything together . Well after he was gone she did not show any despair ,just the same . I was very worried that she would start problems ( Picking , screaming ) NO nothing . and she is as scared from me as on the first day .She growls like a doberman if i come into the cage . Lately we established a flock whistle - and in the evening and morning she calls me but when i go to her she stops and growls . Dont know what is the opinion of you bird lovers out there . What can i do - should i try to get her another mate? Should i just except the situation as it is ? She does not look miserable to me but i feel like she should have more then just be there on her own . Please i really would appreciate any ideas and if you can share your wisdom with me . Thank you all

Hi Dave thanks for your post . It was very helpful . I am new here and it is very helpful to read all this posts since i am on my own since a long time with my madam . Could i ask you a question it does concern behaviour . I bought my madam in a petshop in cairo . she was in a real miserable condition and i was not there to by a bird . I learned a lot from then but still she is not a tame bird . She still growls at everybody she sees or comes to close to her . She is healthy and seems content as long as nobody is interacting with her . After 2 years of no big chnage i got her a friend the captain . They very fast bonded and became a content couple . I was glad . 2 years later i had to move to Cairo so i moved house and got them a big aviary outside the house - on the terrasse . They seemed happy . Then - disaster - the captian escaped and i could not find him any more . I was devastated . The madam - well she did not seem to mind . She did not change in any way . Again i tried to get closer to her . Spend lots of time with her . she does not want to have anything to do with me . I dont know how old she was when i got her but she seemed like a grown up bird already. eyes where light already. I got DVD s from Chat Wolmat i think his name is right like this about clickertraining and joined several forums . All in vain . All i could achieve is that she now is on pellets and not on seeds anymore and she excepts almost all veggies and fruits - in the beginning she was on seeds only not wanting anything else . she calls me sometimes we have a flock wistle but when i come to the cage she does not do it again . ONly when i am out of sight. in my old house she and the captian were out in the living room with their stand most of the day . oNly in the evening they went to sleep by themselves in their cage . They had 2 cages in the beginning and then chose to live in one . I am sure i made a lot of mistakes with her , thinking that i am doing her something good - now i know i frightend her more then doing her a favor . Do you think that she would be better off with somebody else ? I do not want to give her up but on the other hand i do not want to keep her that lonely. Would it be wise to get her another one or would she not except another friend after the captian . Please , please advise me with whatever you can . I have the best intentions but seem to have no success . Thanks Dave hoping to hear from you or any other member so i can adjust my behaviour in her favor .

Hi there i have a female her name is madame. She is a very wild not tame bird which lives with me since 6 years . I purchased a training program from chat womach and am trying to train my untrained bird with the clicker method. I am making some progress as she is now eating while i am with her in the aviary . which was unheard off before. So i will keep you posted on my progress .

Thanks again for your advises . I think in my heart i already decided that she is going to stay with me as long as she is alive . I have never given up on animals that i took in . Had always rescued dogs in egypt since there is a big need for that . She is my first parrot , had some cockatiels before which i placed in a good home later because of moving back and forth reasons. I think i do want another one so i can have a cuddly one too . I will not give up on my madame - she is a part of my life already and i hope i do the right thing for her . Anyway thanks for your support and answers . I will continue to get all the good ideas from this forum and if you want to keep you updated on my journey with my feathered friends. Going to have a look tomorrow for 2other ones and see if the chemicals fit to one of them .

ah yes forgot to ask if you have any suggestions or tricks that i can bring her to eat the food out of my hand ? I am clickertraining her at the moment by giving her the seeds only if she eats them when i am with her in the aviary . And i have to sit on the floor otherwise she would not go to her food bowl . I think she would starve herself to death rather then eating while i am there. If i am sitting on the floor and nobody else is around ( no dogs , or kids or in fact anybody ) she would go on top of her cage and eat the seeds from there . she gets seeds only if she does eat them while i am there . I changed her over to a pellet diet and fruits and veggies only like maybe a month ago since i have to bring the food from abroad . It is not available in egypt and so all the greys here only live in seeds . She was like this when i got her and it took me a long time for her to accept fresh stuff . So if i look back i made progress but i am not sure it is good enough for her . She seems happy with herself she is only stressed if i come to close to her . She steps up on a stick under lots of protest but she does it . I cant carry her anywhere though . She just flies off then . My god it is good to be able to tell you all this since i have nobody around who really understand why i bother with her . Thanks a lot i really appreciate this

Thank you for your honest answers . She has not always been in the aviary . Only since i had to move to a big city is hse ouside because i feel i can give her there more attention then inside . She is quite content out there , she is practically right next to our livingroom and is involved in our live by watching us on the terrace . It is not that i locked her away in the backyard . you might have a point with not having her in the middle of the action but she was so unhappy i felt that removing her a bit to the side was also on her behalf . Will take your advise and will bring her inside again, but she is too panicked to let her out of the cage . She is fully flighted and fles around like a mad chicken if let out. What do you suggest ? She lived with me in the countryside before and there she was in the house for about 5 years . She was still very shy jsut sitting somewhere most of the time on top of her cage and observing what s going on . She was never trying to interact with us except vocaly which i do now as well since she is right next to my terrace . I dont know i really dont want to loose her but i feel maybe she would be better off with another family . Even though i live in egypt and i an tell you what the other places look like is not fun ! i will do my best to make it a better life for her in any case . I dont fully understand what you are saying about the other parrot since i introduced the captian to her before and she seemed to b happy with him . IN no time the were bet friends and moved into 1 cage . We actually barely had any fighting going on . Even they started mating after the second year . So why do you think it is wrong to bring her another one . She might like it and i will not force thme to get along . If they cant be friends they can stay in different cages and beeing let out at different times . Dont you think it would be better to try and make another parrot her flock since she doesnot seem to be happy with us people , i dont know maybe she is a wild cought bird and she is never going to be fine with her life with us . Please would y explain the non second bird policy a bit more in detail ? Thanks again for your help

Hi all of you i this forum . I am a new member and really appriciate all the advices that i found in this forum. I have a problem with my african grey hen ( age unknown) She is still scared of me after 6 years . she is a rescue bird , nobody knows anything of her past . She is growling at anything and anybody . She is kind of comfortable with me now but far from able to touch her or come close to her . She lives in an outside aviary since she was anoying my family very much with her growling all the time . I have her step up on a stick reluctanty but well she does it . I read all this things about rewarding her for good behaviour . She would not take anything out of my hand . She waits until i leave the cage and then picks up the treats that i left for her . so training her is quite a challange i have to admit . I do not want to give up on her since i am a responsible person but i have to say i really would like to have a pet parrot that is a pet rather the a growling monster . She had a companion for 3 years and he escaped a year ago . She never changed before or after his appearance . It did not seem to matter to her . NOw i am thinking of getting her another friend . More for me then for her i have to admit . It is my first bird and i am sure i made mistakes . Also last 3 years i have to travel and everytime i move i have to catch her with gloves so i am sure this is not helping the matter of beeing scared of me . Do you think that i have a chance of letting her know that i am no harm to her ? Or is it better to let her go to someone else , maybe she will find someone that she trusts more then me ? Have i made too many mistakes with her ? Can she still learn to trust me ? I dont know what to do anymore ! please advise with your expirience ! I can really do with some good tips . Espacially how to get her to eat out of my hand so i can give her treats or start with the clicker taining . she is even scared from the clickersound . Thanks and i hope to hear from someone that has pitty on us and will send some help!