lino

Yup, that's what I am trying to say. The punishment I mention is actually a negative outcome to the bird. Regrdless of involemevt of human and intensity. Something that the bird don't like to happen. Like in your case get shock for chewing the wire. Just thinking, can we create the nagtive outcome without being known by the bird. Say like: If bird scared of red colour shirt., then when the bird make noise, we make the red shirt appear without human being around. May be hang it with a string and when the bird scream, drop the shirt without being present at the scene. So the bird will think screaming=scary red shirt. Do u think it's acceptable or will it work? Without human involvement.

Thanks Jay. I am really not too sure about training. Not that I am suggesting, I just said there's a friend I know who do that. For me, I am lucky enough to have my birds that is obedient enough by far and they are perfect. I do agree. Grey is totally different from conure or other bird. I have incident that make me feeling very very down recently. My grey walk to me and say "how are u" and for the 1st time climb to me and sit th my arm Usually she will not come to mr and I have to come to her. Since that day the relationship go to the higher level that she is looking forward to spen time with me. Before that, it's like, "u play with me, I am ok, u don't, I am also happy" kind of relationship Now, "I Wana out to play, please take me out" What I am trying to say is, I agree with Jay that grey I very very sensitive and they think alot then dound action. They look lazy, but their brain is running nonstop. May b a little punishment is enough to destroy a grey's trust as they are significantly more sensitive then the most.

I'm not too sure why is it that pain = death is nearing As far as i know, in the wild, birds are facing challenge all the time. Even when they injured, they will try to survive. They are very hardy if compared to other bird like soft bill. Eventhough I do not punish my bird, I think a negative (punishment) do make the bird remember that they should not do certain thing. And the punishment make them remember it hard. However, I do believe that phisical punishment that cause injury should not b done. From what i encounter, Phisical Punishment that is unpleasant but not hurting like squirting the bird with water work verywell . A fren of mine has caique who love to shoot the poop out of the cage. So he squirt the bird whenever the bird about to poop out the cage. Within a few time, the bird really learn well

***In the wild there is no wrong doing*** what i mean wrong doing is something like when human set a trap, when they do something that hurt them, like eating from a trap and got trapped-they will very very quicly learn that those object is trap. especially for the bird that got trapped and escape. they will learn not to go near trap anymore. may be its not really about the leadership thing, may be the hight dominance? i am not too sure about this actually. but it said that some do thing that make them get confronted by other, in particular, in the show, it was fighting for a spot. a young bird that trying to get a spot to pearch and got bitten by older flock member and the your parrot was said to be learning that he cant do that. i hope i am not offending anyone here, i am just bringing up the topic that i thought worth discussing. and the practice that is done by some people i know. i know this metter is always sensitive...

i think the only concern about punishment is when it is done to extreme or wrongly it will spoil the relationship between the bird and the owner. i remember another trainer told me, he punish the bird for all the bad behaviour they do. the bond really affected. the bird will hate him. but he will hand feed the bird(feed the bird from his hand). the bird will hate him but aware that he is dependent on him for food. so after a short time of constant punishment, the bird will almost fully understand some that undesirable and will not do it. then he will start to do the training. like talking and some simple trick. at this trianing, alot lot lot of treat and prises will be given and the new bond will rebuilt. acording to him, this is his method and it always work. he is on of the most popular trainer too and he always see result very very quickly. but he does warn that if this method is done wrongly, it can be disastrous. it can turn a tame bird to a frantically wild bird.

i do agree that when we punish the bird or hurt them, they will remember. but i think they will remember that if he do certain thing, they will get punish and they will not repeat it. the furthust punishment i ever tried was to do the earth quake and evil eyes when they bite me. it work well to certain extend but there is a trainer friend who punish the bird when they make noise. he would put the bird in a small dark box when ever the bird scream. after a few time the bird really know that he should not screech. i ve come across to the hybrid training method. its the combination of punishment(-ve) reinforcement and reward(+ve) reinforcement. like for example: the bird bite, then we shake the bird off. when the bird stop, reward the bird. so the shake is the punishment. then like when the bird screech, put the bird in the box, once the bird quiet, take him out and reward. i am not too sure weather it will work but some of my friend have some success with it. the bird still bond very well to the owner and the bird is really decipline. their concept is, bird learn well from negative thing that happen to them. they will learn what cause them pain and avoid doing it. they also do learn what get them reward. but to remove bad behaviour, they use punishment to get the bird stop doing it and reward once the bird stop the behaviour. they do not believe in the concept ignoring the bird and only reward the good behaviour... actually there is alot of type of training method and type of trianer. a little confusing of which one to follow too

she originally eat seed mix. then manage to convert in to kaytee natural pellet and zupreem natural pellet. so he will only, ONLY eat the zupreen and kaytee pellet and sunflower seed as treat during training she doesnt eat any other thing. she statrted eating mung bean sprout and vegie. occasionally apple. she eat alot of pellet. she really love her pellet.

hi jay, thanks alot... the weight stay around 380. it goes up and down around there.... she eat mostly pelet as she dont really like vergie and fruits... i am still working on her to get her to eat more variety of food

thanks jay, things geting slower with amigo. she didnt learnt anything new, but she is getting tamer and more comfortable at home. i bring her out more often. like just go down the market or go some of the bird gethering(fellow parrot lover spent time together and socialise their birds) she is getting used to outdoor activity and start enjoying it too about the name, she start responding to her new name. i will take it slowly and let her do it at her pace....

i am just wondering, not that i am going to phisically punish my birds or injure them. just purely wondering it is always said that bird do not understand any kind of punishment. from what i see, punishment is something like telling the bird that if he do something, he will get something bad happen to them. but why wont they understand ? in the wild, they learn from bad thing too like for example, if they go too near the ground, they will get caught easiy, thus they learnt to stay higher up on the tree. or they learn that if they go to climb too high, they will get biten by the flock leader who is trying to maintain the leadership from the wild behaviour, they understand "cause and effect " concept. but why it doesnt apply at our house? again, i am just thinking and trying to link up. just watch the documntary on wild parrot. their life is actually quiet tough and face alot of negative stuff(punishment) from their wrong doing be it from the flock member or from predator. but they learnt really fast through that.

Thanks guys The weight today before Dinner is 397g(crop is empty) but she have heavy lunch n breakfast today. I will monitor the weight twice a day. I ask the previous owner and she said that it's like that all the time. Pop often and alot. I asked the shopkeeper, they suggested to deworm They suggested vitafarm deworming gel. Anyone has experience on that one? It's not very easy to get a good avian vet at here. Most vet are for dog and cat. Thanks for the input guys

thanks judy, amigo has been a sweet bird. i often bring her out to walk with me and let alot of people handle her she is getting better everyday

i read the behaviour work and there is alot of wonderful article to read. i will take my time to read them. thanks alot. i will thank you twice if there is another thank button. its a very very useful websites that you have introduced

i notice that amigo keel bone is a little sharp and she feels thin but she eat alot, drink alot too and definately poo alot she poo very very often, and it can be like once every few minutes. so the cage paper get very dirty within one day she is very active and always move around the cage. the poo also look healthy. her weight is 378g before her breakfast. is there anything to worried about the frequency of poop and her keel bone?

a very rery sweet cockatiel he will lose his pearl after molting,but he will remain gorgeous !!!

thanks judy, he is here i will post some picture asap he isnt as wild as he seems to be when i bring him home, i realise he has a very very strong smell of "wet shoe" i dont know how to explain it, but it is the smell of a wet shoe, that is not dried properly for days. and i also dont know how he get such a strong smell i put him on the wooden perch. he squack very very loudly and start chewing on the perch. he refuse to step up but he took food from my hand. i will bath him well once he is more stable

Thanks a alot for the input guys. Yes, I already have a conure myself. It's a cinnamon conure and I also have an Indian ringneck. I actually read alot about them and but I feel many articles are copy and paste in to another. So I really love to hear hands on expiriance from the friends here The blue crown conure that I am buying is and adult wild bird. So it might be quiet a challenge for me to get him to trust me. I am getting him today.!!! Very excited

hi guys, i am considering to include a blue crown conure in to the flock i would love to have any expiriance based info from you guys who encounter with this conure before in my country, blue crown is almost imposible to be found in the bird shop, it can be considered as one a very rare conure. i was lucky to be able to find one. anyone have any expirience on this conure please share your knowladge....thanks alot:D

I am also some how like u. I need to rent an appartment, still study and considering to get a grey since few years ago. Money is always a problem in getting one. So while waiting for the right moment I read more and more and tried to handle more grey. May b can try to handle some grey too while waiting.

Actually they an cope and will learn to adapt to our schedule. You have cockatiel to keep each other company too. You can teach the grey simply trick like waving. So when u want to introduce to new people, you can get the person to feed the grey some treat and get the grey to perform the trick for the person. This method work very well on amigo. She is very reserve bird, but now she enjoy meeting new ppl as it would mean to her that she is getting free treat. If it doesn't work, u may need to try out other method as what work for mine doesnt mean itvwill work for yours

Great!! I mean if there's chance, get an adult grey that is stable and well behaved and the owner can no longer care for him. Eventhough rare, but it's not impossible. Or else baby will be great too But 1thing about baby, some of them will start to get nippy and aggressive after weaning. I know it's not always the case, but I have encounter 2 of it One of them is amigo, my grey The previous owner got it at 5 weeks old, soon after weaning, the bird become agressive and that's why the bird ended up in the cage for years until I bought her over. Whatever it is, you have done a good research and I'm very sure you are ready for grey. However, If you have problem, you will have this big grey owner family to turn to and I'm sure many will be able to offer helps.

Thanks for the comment guys. Will keep I updated, hopefully with photos

It's great that you planned well and do a good research before getting a grey. But whatever posted in Internet or books cover only the surface. You will slowly learn even more about your future grey and learn his individual character. That's what most of us are still learning no matter how long we have been keeping parrot. May be instead of getting a new baby, you can consider getting Rehomed bird. May be they are in need for a permanent loving home. But do make sure u get the tame one if u decided to adopt the rehome one..

i was watching some show in my computer. amigo was perching on his perch just right beside me. so i just ignore her and continue watching. out o sudden,she bend down her head and ask for cuddle. she enjoy it so much ! now she alwasy ask for cuddle before stepping up on my hand here's some picture of her getting cuddled

thanks judy, i totally love what she did the way she getting closer to me its really inteligent. she dont just interect with me because of food. she really observe my doing. i have been bringing her out with me. at first she is very very nervous. now she is kind of looking forward to see the world out there. she know whenever i am going out. whenever i carry a bag and wear trousers, she will get excited. when me and my sis loughing in my living room, she will lough out loud too to tell us she wants to be involved. since she is locked at home for entire life, i think its time for her to see and enjoy outdoor life. i also manage to get her to eat kaytee natural, zupreem natural,and herrison. the pellet suply is not constant here. so heve to let amigo accept alot of type of pellet. soon i willbe training her to accept harness so i can still bring her out when she regrow her flight. another breakthrough for today. amigo is usually always nasty to my other bird but today, i was a little careless. tiki, my greencheek cinnamon conure go near amigo without me noticing it. the moment i know tiki was too near to amigo, i was shock. migo was preening tiki i dont know when migo start accepting, but he did accept tiki already. actually i also feel very lucky that my journey with migo went too smooth. i cant complain more ! i will update on here again