SamsDad

Benjimin, One thing to know about Greys is that they are VERY smart and are VERY strong willed. They are masters at manipulating their owners. I agree that starting with a baby is your best bet as older Grey can have some bad "habits" that a new Grey owner might have trouble with. Think of them as a toddler that is at that stage in life where they want to get into things, and have recently learned the words "NO!" and "MINE!" Keep this in mind even if you get a baby. At some point the baby will realize it has a mind of its own and then the games begin! You can't dominate a Grey, you must learn to be a better manipulator than your bird. I call it the battle between the little brain and the big brain - never underestimate your small brained companion! Even after 20 years as a Grey owner I still get sucked in. An example of what I mean; My current 2 year old CAG Sam is a wonderful bird. I'm not sure if I could have found a better bird, BUT Sam gets me now and then. Each night Sam spends an hour or more on me as I watch TV - Its our lap/play time. A couple weeks ago Sam took an interest in the folds of my jeans and started trying to chew them. Not wanting holey jeans, I said "Sam, no!" and gently pulled his beak lose and blocked the fold with my hand. He'd move to another fold and would chew some more. I had dropped my guard and stopped thinking like a Grey owner and was handling him like a dog owner trying to teach his dog to obey. The more agressive I got, the more determined he was to chew. The harder I'd pull his beak lose, the faster he'd grab the pants again. This is a classic example of reinforcing negative behaviour with a Grey. The initial fiddling with my pant fold gave way to an exiting way of getting me to react with drama. In Sam's mind it was WAY more fun to get me excited than to just lightly chew the pants. I now gave him a REASON to chew my pants!! EXCITEMENT, DRAMA, FUN! WHOO-HOO!!! Fortunately I came to my senses and realized my mistake. The next night I wore old jeans and DIDN'T react when he started to chew. I ignored him for a while, then I distracted him by picking up a toy or by reaching for something close to him or wiggling my fingers up at my chest which is my invitation for a tickle. It worked and he quickly forgot about chewing my pants because there were other, more fun things to do. Within a week he'd stopped doing it all together. Another problem I had to find a way around with Sam was when we finger wrestled. He LOVES to play with my fingers but he was developing a bad habit. He's very gentle when we play, but when ever he'd get the tip of my finger into his beak he'd squeeze, a little at first then a little harder until it hurt and I'd say "ow". At first my tactic was to not let him play with my fingertips and this worked great. Then one night I hit on the solution - a light went on in my head. I gave him additional drama when he'd get to my fingertips BEFORE he squeezed. I'd say "ow-ow-ow-ow, he's got my fingers! help help help me HO,NO! sam's tearimg my fingers apart!!! ow-ow-ow-ow! This is the drama he wanted and instantly stopped the painful squeezing and its become a regular part of our play. I manipulatd him into learning that gentle play brings drama. This is often how a Grey become nippy. By learning that a nip brings excitement and drama. A Grey will test you on occasion - taunt you so to speak, and you must not get sucked into the trap. The key is patience, and staying calm. When they are this way you MUST keep your energy level low. Like the toddler that's thrown iself on the floor screaming because it can't play with something - you must step over it and walk away - it will learn the fit brings no reward. Now on the flip side is these birds will also manipulate with charm. There are those crappy days when I come home a grump, and an hour playing with Sam makes it all go away. He gets me laughing and then laughs along with me, and there's no better therapy than that! Some Greys are cuddly and others are not. My previous TAG Nelson loved to be cuddled. I could wrap my hands around him cup him, and he'd lay in my hand and almost go to sleep. Sam will only allow my hands lightly around him for a short time - a few seconds at most, yet he loves to crouch next to my cheek and lean against my face while being scratched. If he does and I don't scratch right away he'll push himself harder against my cheek while lowering his head. These are the times when he will accept my hand over his back. I can't resist that charm. Oh, yes... and your house will never be quiet again! Sorry for the long post - hope it helps. Tom

That's terrible news and would have me worried too. Your story reminds me that, while all the valuables in my house are insured, there's one that could never be replaced, and that's Sam. I doubt an intruder would have any interest in our three cats, but a parrot in a cage!? $$$$$!!! Having Sam stollen would be much like having my best friend kidnapped. It would be horrible. If it ever happens I could only hope that I'd be able to find the thief by following the trail of blood and pieces of fingers that Sam would leave behind.

Great story and nice pics. I hope that isn't one of your favorite sweatshirts! I'm on my second bird-sweatshirt. I had to throw out the first one because it looked like I got in a bar fight with a weed-whacker. It would have been the perfect thing to wear standing on a street corner holding a cardboard sign. Last night after playing with Sam I went into the kitchen to give my wife a nice hug. I forgot I was wearing the bird-sweatshirt. She put her arms around me, puckered up for a kiss, then jumped back looking at her hand. "That's not????" pause "bird sh*t is it??!! Oh God it is!" My reply was. "kinda kills the romance of the moment doesn't it?" "Sure does!" she says. :sick: How are you hanging the new perches? Are they free swinging? Can Bismark reach them from his cagetop? I have a similar free swinging spiral rope perch that came with Sam's cage when I got him 9 months ago. I built a rope covered, upside-down L-shaped pole rising above his cage and the rope swing hangs below it above his cage top. At first he was the same way, pretty much avoiding using it. He'd step on it and it would move and he'd back away. I just left it there for him to explore on his own. Now he hangs from it upside down while beating the snot out of his bell. I guess its like learning to ride a bike. It just takes time and practice. Tom

Jill, that's a great story and parallels mine very closely. About a month ago I had a cold which aggrivated my mild asthma and left me with a wheezy cough. Well, you guessed it, Sam has asthma too because he'll burst into a coughing fit mid-chatter at random times. He has a number of variations which made me realize I must cough in many different ways. It's hilarious! Sometimes its just a short 2-cough wheeze, others more of a longer coughing fit. Then there's his mimick of a sound you REALLY don't want him to do for company. When he does it, I accuse him of learning it from his mother, NOT ME, because I'd NEVER do such a thing. :whistle: He farts. Not only that, but if someone in the house farts audibly, there's often an echo that comes from the cage. My 23 year old daughter came over last week to visit and we weren't home, they came in to play video games until we got back from town. Her boyfriend hearing Sam making various noises said. "Too bad he doesn't make farting sounds." My daughter says she smiled :evil: and made the noise with her mouth. Sam replied, which sent her boyfriend into fits of laughter. :laugh: Gotta love these little guys! Tom

WOW! I see this thread has been going for a while. Good info for people so I'll join in. Sam's diet when I got him: Seed mix. He was 14 months old and wouldn't touch anything else unless it came from a snack bag. I get the impression being raised around two young boys in he previous house that they shared their snacks with him. He wouldn't touch anything else. No fruit, no vegitables, not even a peanut in the shell or a juicy grape JUST SEED. Sam after living with me for 6 months: A complete opposite from 6 months ago! He has three dishes in his cage. Dish #1 is his origonal seed dish that I still put seed mix in for breakfast, but only about 1/2 inch deep and a peanut or two. Bowl #2 is at the other end of his perch and it contains pellets, currently Zupreem fruit blend and a couple NutraBerries. Bowl #3 is one I place in the bottom of the cage in a poop-free zone. This is his "forrage" bowl and is where I put veggies and/or fruit each morning and the bird friendly bits from dinner each night. It's also where we'll put treats like pizza crust, pasta, rice or bits of egg or cheese from weekend breakfast. Sam starts at his seed bowl eating the good stuff out first (sunflower seeds). He'll travel over to the pellet bowl and crunch away there and a little later he'll forrage in the bottom bowel. His cage has a direct view of the kitchen and he gets VERY excited when we are fixing dinner. He peeps and begs knowing his forrage bowl will return with a new treat that the rest of the flock is eating. It took a while to convert him, he was stubborn and only wanted seed at first. I thought he'd never change but I didn't give up. EVERY day he got pellets and veggie/fruit in his bowls, even if every bit got thrown out. Sure enough after a couple months I noticed signs he was trying new foods. First a came apple chuncks then few carrot chunks and one or two peas. Then I noticed some pellet dust in the bottom of the pellet bowl and occasionally I'd hear the crunch-crunch of a pellet being eaten. I reduced the amount in his seed dish once I saw him starting to eat other things. My origonal plan was to eliminate the seed mix altogether, but I've changed my mind. He's soooo good about eating a wide variety of foods now that I don't worry about him have some seed every day. I couldn't expect more from him. I think he actually enjoys going from bowl to bowl to forrage for all the different stuff. His favorites dinner items are mashed potatoes, spaghetti with a little sauce and any rice or pasta dish we fix (light on any sauce). As for vegetables he loves broccoli, which is odd because for the longest time it would go straight to the cage floor if it was in his dish. He likes peas and carrots and in season a chunk of fresh corn on the cob! He'll eat that till its plastered all over his beak! So, I'd say its 20% seed mix, 40% pellets and 40% fruit, veggies, pasta rice and other food. 0% beans. He won't touch beans. Oh well... can't have everything I guess.

I forgot to add that this can be a sign of affection because bonded pairs will feed each other. Often when a bird is feeling "birdy love" for you he'll pump his head up and down to work up a slimey treat for you. You just haven't been loved until you've been offered a gooey, slimey beakfull of, yum, "stuff".

Other birds do learn to imitate other birds calls and can use them for various reasons. We live in the country and my wife throws out peanuts for a pair of Stellar's Jays that live nearby. When the birds arrive in the yard, they often make the call of a hawk and sometimes an Eagle. I'm sure this is to scare away the competition. They even use it on us when we are out in the yard or if one of our cats are in the yard. They quickly learned to come when called and would hop foward excitedly from tree to tree when we said "PEANUT! Come get your PEANUT!" I recently commented to my wife that I bet if we were to hand raise a baby Jay it too would learn to talk and make noises much like a parrot. During mating season Starlings will stand on a high perch and rattle off a huge variety of other birds calls. I remember as a kid hearing a bird in the early morning that would imitate other birds as well as making the sound of distant barking dogs! Maybe for these birds the guy that has the largest vocabulary gets the girl! I don't know why certain species have, and use this ability but it must serve to extend and enhance thier ability to communicate. Tom

Oh yeah, they get moody! Some evenings Sam is a mellow lovable bird that just wants to be scratched and others he a hellion that won't slow down. All he wants, is to run-run-run, play-play-play, wrestle-wrestle-wrestle. Then there's the nights where he gets a "time-out" in his cage because he's being a brat, biting, nipping and throwing fits when he doesn't get his way. Thank goodness the last one is rare! Tom

Geeze, great question! Couldn't begin to offer a guess but I DO find it funny imagining an 8 ton T-Rex running around beeping, burping, laughing, clucking, quacking, talking and making the sound of a telephone ringing! Tom

He's doing the birdy equivalent of suckling on your finger. The pumping is his attempt to "feed". In his mind your finger should be regurgitating a yummy crop stew into his beak. Sam will do this too me sometimes, when we are playing and he grabs my finger a certain way. He opens his wings and arches his head back while pumping his head up and down. He's still pretty young so I guess its his desire to be back in the "nest" sometimes. When he does it I usually gently remove my finger. I'm not sure I want to encourage the behavior since it doesn't seem fair to have him want to be fed this way by fingers that can't vomit :sick: Tom

I chose a grey for their intelligence and talking ability. Even after 20+ years of owning one I'm still amazed and greatly entertained by what these little birds can do with their little peanut sized brain.

Great post because two nights ago Sam decided he was in charge NOT me for the first time since I've had him! It was our nightly play time, where I sit in my easy chair and he sits on me for scratching and play. That night he started striking at me when I didn't do what he wanted. I often forget to remove my watch before he joins me, and he usually will remind me by lightly grabbing it and trying to play with it. I'll gently pull his beak off tell him its not a toy and take it off. That night he ran down my arm, grabbed the watch and clamped down. To him that the watch WAS a toy and it was his toy NOT mine! I pulled his beak away and he bit my finger. This nipping and biting continued until at one point he struck at my face. It wasn't a bite but it was agressive and I needed to stop him before it got worse. That's when I gave him a time-out back in his cage for about ten minutes. I didn't say a word to him and made sure I didn't even look at him. He banged around in his cage thowing a fit for about 5 minutes before he calmed down. When he was calm for a while I quietly went to get him asking him to step up to re-establish that I was in charge. It worked because he was much calmer and when it looked like he was going to try a bite, I'd say "don't bite" and he stopped. He knows what the word mean because I'll tell him when we're playing and he gets a little over excited and squeezes my fingertips too hard. The rest of that evening, and the night after he was his old self - well mannered and gentle. Now that I know the terrible twos may have arrived I've changed one aspect of our evenings at the begining of our play time. Up until now, I've let him climb down off his cage and walk over to my chair where he'd climb up and we's start our playtime. For now, I'm going to be the one to initiate the start of play. I'm not going to let him decide, I'll go to his cage, say "its play time" and ask for him to step-up. I hope this sends the message that I'm the one in charge. Please be patient and follow the good advice that others have offered. If you search my posts you'll read about my battle with biting with my previous grey Nelson, that I thought I'd never win. He was shredding my hands and I had to resort to using a dowel to pick him up and put him back in his cage. It took months of work to get him to stop and I thought I'd never be able to handle him again. I stuck with it, and and he finally decided it wasn't going to work anymore and our good relationship returned.

Be careful what you wish for! Sam is 20 months old now, and I was begining to wonder if I was going to have a bird that didn't talk much. He just didn't seem interested in any words I tried to teach him - no reaction, and I never heard him even try to practice them. The only thing he said clearly was an imitation of my wife calling her cat "Buddy". She calls him "Bud-Bud" and Sam liked the sound. He would go on and on calling "Buddy!" and saying "budbudbudbudbud." He did pick up our laughing and does a bunch of variations including some low slow "evil" laughs. My wife sometimes does the wicked witch laugh from the Wizard of Oz to Sam, and I've heard him imitate it perfectly but still not much talking Then about 2 or 3 weeks ago, I started hearing more and more and more. I can tell it finaly "clicked" and he's starting to talk up a storm. He really likes my wife's voice and has picked up a lot of what she says, but mixed in there is my voice too. He is clearest when he first comes out of his cage when I get home in the afternoon, because that's when he's talking softly. When he gets loud later on, the words are a more garbled. Every couple days I hear several new words or phrases and recently he taken to talking a bit when he sits on me in the evenings. He's learing when to use certain words in context. About 2 weeks ago he realized what the word "NO!" means and will use it at appropriate times. The first time was when I clipped his talons which requires toweling him. I put him back on his cage and tried to calm him down by reaching for him and asking if he wanted a scratch. Well, he puffed up, grabbed my finger and pushed it away forcefully saying "NO! NO! NO!" in my voice. His message was clear. I was to bug off because I'd made him angry. Just this evening I noticed he's practicing whole sentances but I can't understand them yet. Now I think I'm going to have quite a chatterbox on my hands. Hang in there and be patient, because when the time comes there's no stopping it! :cheer: Not that we'd want too! Tom

It's a bit of a crap shoot as there are so many variables involved. What was the bird's life like before coming into your home? What is its personality, what is your personality? There may be deep seated habits and reactions to people that can be hard to undo. On the other hand, if you have the patience and compassion and the bird isn't too "screwed up" it can be very rewarding seeing an animal blossm into a happy social pet. I had adopted a 8 year old Amazon and it worked out very well until I learned I couldn't be a two bird person. I overestimated my ability to give my two birs the attention they needed. My Grey was my first bird so I found a nice home for my Amazon. He was quite social and spent his days in a small country store entertaining the customers and I had more time to devote to my Grey. My current bird Sam is a rehomed bird but he was young when I got him from his first owners - about a year and a half. He didn't come with any baggage and is a outgoing, funny and playfull bird. My wife and I adopted an abused cat from a shelter about 6 years ago. He was 6 years old and had quite a fear of people, and would hide under furniture or rugs whenever anyone was around. With time he came out of his shell to become one of our best cats. He still has baggage that hasn't gone away. He hides from strangers, and if I walk into the room or move too fast he runs like he thinks I'm going to hit him. We feed him in a small utility room and if he's in there and I walk in he panics, like he's cornered, and will scramble out of there knocking over anything in his path. Bend down to pet him too fast and he runs - again like he expects to be hit. We accept this sometimes frustrating behavior because he's so sweet and affectionate when things are quiet and calm, and you can tell he loves to be with us. Despite the baggage I think he knows he's lving the good life and that makes us feel good too. The same goes for an adopted bird - at best, the bird and you will develop a great relationship, at worst it will be a frustrating, unrewarding, disaster for you and your bird. My personal opinion - and others may differ - is that 98% of animals respond very well to compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding and love from thier human owner. Greys are social birds and they have an instinctual need for companionship and membership in a flock. That's a good base for you to build upon. Tom

Dave, nice explanation. Thanks. Jan, in my case Nelson's begging behavior never showed a progression toward wanting to be sexually stimulated. For him is was his way to beg and it was usually obvious what he was wanting. If he was wanting to be picked up, the behavior would stop when I picked him up. Same goes if he was begging for a treat. To me it was obvious that Frank was wanting to mate because his behavior really changed. It started with him "trilling' to me while pinning his eyes, then he'd pump his neck and barf up a gift. For a week or so he was obnoxious, much like a cat in heat. At times I couldn't even talk to him without him starting to barf and court me so I'd leave him be until he calmed down. Now I can see where Sam may be a problem when the time comes, because he is so playful and I'll have to keep an eye out for signs that the roughhousing and tickling are giving him the wrong message. And even now when we are playing and it's tickle time, I always make sure to stay clear of his lower area. We tickle but we don't tickle "down there". At this age he seems to be clearly playing. Dave's detailed explanation will help me in the future to hopfully realize when its time to not tickle. For now its seems to be all in fun. Tom