Annias

Hi Thanks for your response, he is 13 years old, and I did send the seller an email informing him the birds behavior differed from what was represented to me, and asked him to give me as much history on the bird as he could, as it was in both mine and the birds best interest. He informed me he had already told me every thing he knew and that the bird had been one of his friends, children's and his favorites. To me that implies there is something about me. I keep my Grey in a large cages by design cage, feed him avian naturals food, furits vegetable, toys and outside cage time galore, give him head scratched, talk and play with him, socialize him, and have a "room mate" meaning same room different cage for him of a male eclectus. In other words it is a good environment, So I know that is not it, it just pains me that he could have ended up in a home that would not work with him as he had been misrepresented. I'm wondering what if anything further I should do to make sure that others know the risk of dealing with this breeder. He may raise and sell wonderful babies, but if as I think is likely he misrepresented my bird to me, I am concerned about him. Thanks for you patience with reading through my long posts.

Hi Everyone, I rescued my Grey over 1 year ago. When he is on the floor playing he tries to "mate' with tin cans, and if I'm near my foot. I have taken away everything that he like to "mate" with and go near him when he is on the floor only to pick him up. By the way he loves to be on the floor walk around, etc. Anyway, I have become suspicious that this bird background was misrepresented to me. I got him from a breeder in Wisconsin. He was shipped to me, the breeder had no baby greys available when I called to inquire, but told me about this wonderful rescue bird. A woman died and her family "sold" the bird to him, as they could not manage him. He said he bought the bird as a good deed, as he knew he could find him a home and get him out of the not good situation with the family that inherited him. He was supposedly a fantastic talker, gentle, etc. He does talk but rarely, which is fine, he makes great whistles, kissing sounds, and does talk occasionally when alone in his cage. He bites, and hard, but in a manner I can predict, so after learning his body language and what results in his biting he rarely to never bits me, but I have to caution other that they handle him at their own risk and of course never allow children to handle him. It is only when handling him that he bites. When he does not want to get out of his cage and I need him to, I use a wooden perch to get him out. But I do this so rarely as he shakes at the sight of the perch and immediately will get on my finger, giving me the feeling that someone hit him with a wooden perch in the past. I am starting to feel fairly certain that this breeder bought this male grey to breed, but it didn't work out and so he sold him as a pet. I love my guy, and am only very concerned that if someone had bought him, because they had to have a talker, which is what the breeder told me, this is great because you will know you have a real good talker, he said he spoke over 200 words, and someone who had kid, etc. This bird would have been placed in the wrong situation. I feel very angry he would be so irresponsible. Again my idea about the true story is something can't prove. I wondering what, if anything, I should do regarding my belief that this bird was misrepresented to me, and the fact that this is being done not by just a one time individual that is giving up their grey but by a breeder who could do this in teh future, the manner in which this breeder raised his babies, or represented he did, made me comfortable adopting sight unseen. My thought was that he would not hurt his reputation in this arena by misrepresenting this bird to me. Anyway, I know this is a long post, just wondering if any of you have thoughts, similar experiences, or advise on this matter. Thanks so much

I found great help on my Grey's bitting on ParrotTalk.net. This post is a little disorganized as it is late, but I wanted to get it out to you. hope it is of some use and makes sence. I have attached a link to ParrotTalk below. It is really working. What I have done is I have taken my grey into a room that is not his territory and that is a realtively small space. Laundry room for me and I have worn gloves, more for me so that I can take following through on what I'm doing without flinching back. They are just gardening leather gloves, and I keep interacting, including touching my grey and being very gentle but determined to not change my behavior of requriing step up etc. He is really taming down. And in fact he seems like a much happier bird, though he does not like the training session yet. I do this only for 10 minutes... the first couple of times, snd only onr time a day for a couple of days then twice a day for 6 days so far and these sessions are not 20 minutes. Give him treats everytime he does what you ask and ignore the biting. I don't think birds knoe why they are being given a time out, and it is a reward in ways as they want you to back off so they bite and your really back off when you give them a time out, in some ways it is a reward. . Before I tried this differnt approach, I felt like we were in a tunnel in which no behavior change seem likely. I'm am so far from an expert but this seems to be working for me and my 12 year old rehomed CAG, rehomed with me 2 months ago. If you are at the point of rehoming, you may want to give it a try. I was thinking of getting another bird that I could interact with more fully, and I realized if I did that then I would just accept the limited interaction with my bird and he would never make a great companion to anyone. So I shifted gears and am doing this, I may still get another bird, but not as a substitue for working with my becoming a great companionCAG. Another thing, I now only use the gloves during the training session, but for the first few days he was a little pissed off so I used them when I needed them to feel cofident in handling him. Also use a towel if you need to. You must be consistend and follow through so what ever you need to protect yourself and make sure you can do that, in my opinion do it. Another thought is that birds from my understanding only associate what happens imediately after the action, and I mean second, as the consequence of their action... I read about this on Bird Talk Magazine, I have learned from a aninimal behavirlist that a split second of pulling back can give your Grey the reward for having bit,, that is what they want and you do have to show them that by behaving and not biting they will be rewarded. Durng the trainig session, I keep going when my grey bites and give him space and treats when he is calmer. Again, you can't help but back away when they are going to bite and the goves gives you just a little protection, not much as they still have to seem close enough to hands to work with hand training (so thinner), it also gives you the ability to withstand more of the bitting. I think my Grey understands that I am protecting myself and he seems to respond positively to a behavior he understand. i won't consider the training done until their are not gloves and no bites during the session, but we are getting closer. Keep interacting after the training session in a relaxed way, then give him a break then interact normally, but cofidently, and if you have to put the gloves back on to interact normally, by normally I mean not pressing step ups and touches. Anyway, hope this is of some use and it may be a horrible idea for you and your Grey, but I empathize with your feeling like nothing will change and the need to try something new. This is helping us. Also, be sure to stop during the training sesssion to allow the bird to calm down, but at the right points, when the bird has not just bitten you. Take a look at these posts as these are where I got some of my ideas, but I tailored it to what I could mannage and what felt right for me an my Grey. Here is the link ParroTalk.net / Parrot Welfare & Nutrition / Behavior & Training / Behavior Mods for Biters Here are the contents the posts I found useful Behavior Mods for Biters Basic Taming and Training This is meant to train a new bird who does not accept handling and is biting. ( but my bird is 12 years ond and it works... I am not on a feeding schedule but take food away about 2 hours before training, and don't give treats except for during training. Step 1: Getting your bird on a feeding and training schedule.Step 1: Getting your bird on a feeding and training schedule. Things you will need to complete this step: (1) A training treat the bird will respond to. (2) A clock you can see. (3) A soft voice. (4) Patience. First, get your bird on a training diet. Your bird should be on a pellet diet, with fresh fruits and veggies. ABSOLUTELY NO SEEDS OR NUTS DURING TRAINING TIME. These are going to be his training rewards. If he wants them, he must work for them! If he has satisfied his taste for them at mealtimes, he will be less likely to work for them at training time. Your bird should be fed twice per day. Once in the morning. Once in the evening. Wait until the bird is finished eating and is full, then remove the food cups from the cage. (Leave the water, of course!) DO NOT LEAVE BOWLS FULL OF FOOD IN THE CAGE DURING THE DAY. YOU WANT THE BIRD ON A FEEDING SCHEDULE. You want the bird to be slightly hungry when working with him. Next set a training schedule and stick to it. Your bird needs to adjust to this regimentation. He will quickly come to anticipate it, and enjoy it. Trust me. Ideally, training should be AFTER the morning meal, and BEFORE the evening meal. Reasoning: Birds are usually grumpy in the morning before they eat, especially if they don’t get enough sleep. Working with them before the evening meal means they will be hungry and more receptive to food based stimulation. Each session will last approximately half an hour. We don’t want to wear the little guy out, or exhaust his attention span. YOU ARE NOW READY TO BEGIN TRAINING! Ready?! Here’s the big secret. For the first three to five days you are not going to be handling your bird. You are going to be getting him used to the schedule that he will be handled on. During that time, for half an hour at a time, sit next to the cage and talk softly to the bird using “the bird voice.” It doesn’t matter what you say (recite the alphabet, talk about your kids, call him names) what matters is that you are being animated and attentive, using the birds name often, and not making any threatening movements. After five or ten minutes, once you have your bird’s attention, pour a handful of treats into the open palm of your hand, and show them to him. Make sure he sees them. Eat one or two yourself. Make gestures that show how ‘yummy’ they are. Place the bag they came from in plain view, so he can see it. Now that you have his full attention offer him a treat. Pick it up from the palm of your hand, and hold it up. Show it to him before you offer it. In order to receive the treat, he must take it from your fingers gently. Do not let him get your fingers. You do not want to reward him for biting you. If he takes the treat from your hand reinforce with “good bird.” Talk to him a little more, and then hold up another treat. After four or five treats, make a game of it. Tease him a little. Pull it away a few times before you let him have it. Let him get used to hands going in and out around his beak without grabbing at them. The object here is not to shovel treats into his beak. This is something that should be done slowly and over time. Let him savor it. Wait until he wants more. You are not catering to him. He is being attentive to you. Reward him for that attention. Keep this up for the full half hour. If he lunges for your hand or the treat move your hand back, and he does not get it. If he is not gentle, scowl and give a brief disapproving look. Reinforce with, “No biting.” and “gently.” Offer him the treat again. If he takes it from you gently, give it to him. If he attempts to bite, or snatch it, back away again. If he does not take the treat gently from your hand by the third attempt, turn your back on him and walk away. Ignore him completely for five minutes. Most birds, but especially Big Macs and Toos CANNOT STAND TO BE IGNORED. It is one of the most powerful weapons in your arsonal. Use it. Walk away from the cage. Put your nose up in the air. Don’t respond to bids for attention. Play “hard to get.” Stop catering to the bird’s every whim. Make him work a little. When he calms down, come back. If he continues to act up, he doesn’t get fed. Walk away again. When he calms down, come back. If he doesn’t calm down in the entire 30 minute session, he doesn’t get his treats. End the session. (Don’t be afraid to fail. Be persistent. Enforce the rules. Insist that he follow them.) Begin again when its time for the next session. By the end of the three to five day period, he should be completely comfortable with you, and with having your hands in and around his beak without lunging. END OF STEP ONE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Step 2: Getting Him Comfortable With Being Handled. Before moving on to step 2, your bird must first be to the point where he is completely comfortable with you in step 1. He should be responding to your voice. He should be reacting when you ignore him. (If it upsets him, GOOD! It’s working. Keep doing it.) He should be taking food from your hand gently. He should not be attempting to attack your hand when you move it towards his beak. A bird who has had it’s wings clipped is easier to control and work with. I strongly recommend it. Things you will need to complete this step: (1) Items 1-4 in step 1. (2) A T-stand, or table top training perch, or shower perch same diameter as the main perch in the cage. (3) Two 18 inch lengths of wooden dowel, same diameter as the main perch in the cage. Home Depot item. Only a buck or two. If your bird has been abused (as mine was) with dowel perches, and absolutely freaks out at the sight of them, then substitute two large beach towels for the two dowel perches. (4) A large, thick beach towel. (5) A quiet neutral room away from the cage and all other people. I used the master bathroom for this. (6) A steady nerve, and calm, confident demeanor. These guys can smell fear a mile away. Never let them see you sweat! If they sense fear, they will bully you. If you act wishy washy, you send mixed signals and confuse the bird. All your actions must be deliberate. I am a friend, not a threat, bird. You know me now. We ARE going to do this, bird! Be the one in control of the situation. What to wear during training: (1) A heavy long sleeved shirt, preferably sweatshirt material, and long pants. Minimize the amount of exposed flesh. (2) Closed toed shoes! Preferably leather. If the bird flies down from the perch, he may go after your toes. This is especially true with Big Macs and Amazons! Ready for round two?! Set up the training perch in the neutral room. Place the large towel close by the training perch, just in case. You probably won’t need it. Place the bag of treats in the room as well. Take out about 3-4 first, and take those with you to the cage. Sit in front of the cage at your normal training time. By now your bird will probably be anticipating it. Start using the bird voice as always. Feed him 3-4 treats to get him in the mood. This time, something new has been added. Open the cage door and take a step back. Wait for the bird to come out on his own, and perch on the cage door. Reasons: first, territorial aggression. You don’t want to be viewed as “invading the nest” at this point. You haven’t earned that much trust yet. Secondly, if he climbs up on the cage door, he can’t run around inside the cage. Position yourself between the cage door and the cage. He only has the length of the cage door to maneuver on when you try to get him to step up. If he flies down to the floor, he will want to step up. Either way, you are now holding the bird. Distract him with one of the dowel perches, and step him up, using the step up command with the other. DO NOT LET HIM BITE THE PERCHES OR YOU WILL BE TRAINING HIM TO BITE YOUR HAND. Position the dowel perch at the usual spot by his legs. If he does not step up right away gently nudge him with one perch while distracting him with the other. The minute he puts a foot on the perch, lift up. He will have to step up. PRAISE THE BIRD WHEN HE STEPS UP. If you are using towels instead of perches, wrap them tightly around your arms and hold them closed with your fist. Make sure all the bird can grab if he bites is a beak full of towel. Distract him with one toweled hand while stepping him up onto the other toweled hand. Then walk him over to the training room perch and set him down on it. Training exercise no. 1: For the first 5-7 minutes of the training session, have him step off the T stand, onto the dowel (or towel), and then back down onto the t stand over and over again. Talk to him in the “bird voice” the entire time this is happening. Do not let him bite the stick or towel. Move fast. Stay far enough back with the other hand/dowel that he cannot reach it, but close enough to distract him with it. If he moves toward the “perch hand” immediately distract him with the dowel hand, or blow hard in his face to distract him. If he becomes aggressive and attempts to latch on. Grab hold of the beak. Towel him, and take him back to his cage. End the session for the day. Ignore him. No treats. Bad boy. If successful after 5-7 minutes, and he is stepping up nicely for you, reward him with praise and treats. Make a big deal about how good he was. Shower him with attention. Begin training exercise no. 2: Again 5-7 minutes. This time we are going to use our two perches to GENTLY touch him all over. Desensitize him to you. Let him get used to it. Let him figure out that this is not a threat. If there are areas he hates to be touched, be sure to touch him there over and over again, pulling away as he turns to bite. Touch him on the other side, with the other perch when he does, and back to the other side again. Do the back of his neck. The chest. The sides of his wings. The feet. The tail feathers. Touch everything. BUT DON’T LET HIM BITE THE STICK OR THE TOWEL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Talk to him the entire time. Your hands should be moving constantly. Your eyes should be focused on the bird’s posture, eyes, head, and shoulder movements. He will show you when he is getting upset, and what direction he is intending to turn. After 5-7 minutes, discontinue and reward him with treats and praise. Begin training exercise no 3: HERE COMES THE MOMENT OF TRUTH! Set down one of the two perches. Distract him with the perch in your left hand. Step him up onto YOUR OTHER BARE HAND. If he strikes for the hand, he will go for the thumb. Be prepared to move the dowel perch to a position between the bird’s beak and your thumb. DO NOT HIT HIM WITH THE PERCH! But position the perch where he cannot bite your thumb, and gently “nudge” his beak away from your thumb with the perch or the towel. DO NOT LET HIM BITE THE PERCH. DO NOT LET HIM BITE YOUR THUMB. Use the “no bite” command. You may have to move his beak away several times before he stops attempting to grab your thumb. Praise him when he stops, and go back to the “bird voice.” Wait for him to be calm. Now, walk around the house with him for the remainder of your ½ hour training session. Wander from room to room. Go out in the back yard sit down for awhile. Let him get used to you moving around while holding him. ALL THE WHILE WATCHING HIS BODY POSTURE. In the case of big macs, don’t let him go for your thumb or your trapezious muscle. (That’s where they will strike.) Amazons or toos will likely go for the thumb or the forearm. Use the other perch to block and control the beak and prevent it. Walk him back to his cage and set him down on the door. Praise him and give him some more treats. This training session is now over. DO THIS TWICE A DAY FOR 1-2 MONTHS. Objective: Teaching him to step up without biting. Teaching him to walk around with you. Getting him to accept being touched. Teaching him that touching is not bad, and that you are not going to hurt him. Gradually move your hand up the two perches over the course of the two months, until you are no longer using perches or towels, but are actually petting the bird all over with your hand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Getting the bird to lie on its back in the palm of your hand. Do not rush into trick training! Birds learn new tricks in a matter of days to weeks, once you get them to the point where they trust you. The training is easy. Establishing the level of trust, confidence and interaction is the critical factor. What you will need: You will need a bird that trusts you. Your training perch. Your bird voice. Your training treats. Step 1: Step your bird up onto your right hand. Put your thumb over his feet to give him extra support. Put your left hand over his head, out of reach, to distract him. He will automatically focus on the hand above his head. As this happens, turn him onto his back in mid air. Talk to him the entire time. Count to 3. Bring him back up. Praise him and reward him with treats. (Repeat this step 5-10 times.) The bird may get slightly upset or panicky the first time or two. This is normal. Stroke his back give him treats, and wait for him to calm down. Step 2: Once he is comfortable lying on his back in mid air, slowly lower your left hand, and scratch the "sweet spot" on his back just below his head while he is lying on his back. Your bird will probably like this. (Repeat this step 5 times. Each time praising the bird and giving him a treat.) Step 3: Next, instead of scratching him, on the next rep, stroke his back once or twice and lay him flat in the palm of your hand. Then slowly let go with your thumb, and pull your finger out from his feet. Bingo! Your bird is lying on his back in the palm of your hand. Next, pet his chest, talk to him, tickle him under his wingtips, and see how long he will stay there for you. Don't be surprized if your bird starts rolling over onto his back during play sessions with you once he learns this trick... Here is a link to Ken Globus' training tips. I know I've posted them before but for some reason I couldn't find them when I went to look for them. These are simple, easy to understand and apply, and extremely effective. Perhaps we can add this to our permanent collection of training tips? http://www.thebirdwhisperer.com/tips.htm

Thanks for your feed back... Sounds like you have an interesting trio. Yes I know it is possible they will not be friends. But wouldn't it be nice if they were. I do hope it is not hate at first site. Thanks Again

Hi - I have a twelve year old CAG (Zuri - which means Beautiful in Swahili) that I took in about six weeks ago, so he is rehomed. He is sweet, but does not like touch and seems a little lonely and bored, even though I spend lots of time with him. He does not play with toys, etc. I know that will change as he settles in more. But, I am thinking of getting a baby Grey, for both me and Zuri. They would be in the same room and I think it could provide stimulation for Zuri. Also, I guess I want to influence the upbringing of a baby bird. I love Zuri, but realize a baby would be great too and feel like I missed out on the cuddly stage. Zuri won’t even let me scratch his head without threatening to bite. However, I'm worried this would represent one more change and may be hard on my Zuri as he was only recently rehomed with me. However, another part of me thinks do it now so he does not settle into being an only bird. Does anyone have any thoughts or previous experience with a similar situation? Much Appreciation. Here is a picture of Zuri

Thanks so much... it is wonderful to hear of your experince Baxter's Mom. I lived with someone who had a Grey for a couple of year's and that is when I fell in love with this amazing animals. But I was with one that was already bonded and settled so this rehoming process is very new to me, and it is going very well. He seem to enjoy the green beans and carrots I steamed lightly and pureed. He eats them from a spoon that I hold for him and I think he really enjoys being hand feed. He is eating his pellets healthly. He also enjoyed some apple. He really likes it if I eat it first and make a big deal out of how good it is then he really wants to try it too. He seems to have had a good home until his first mom passed away and he has been passed down to realitives that were not interested in him. Left in a cage for six months without every getting out, so change has been negative in the past. I'm trying to show him that this time it is postive. It is hard to imagine how someone could neglect him, he is such a sweetie... When you say Angel, he puts his wings back like an angel. I will try and get a picture as it is so amazing. But I'm not sure I know how he was trained to do that, seems very unnatural, and today when I picked up the phone to make a call and he was in the room with me he said "Hello". So it seems he is settling in relatively fast, I'm sure the next months (years) will be full of suprises. I am worried about one other thing, he makes a sound that sounds like a low cough so I'm taking him to the Vet on Wednsday. He is suppose to be a great Avian Vet... but I worry about my Grey having yet another disrupption, but I have to get this looked at and his general health should be checked out. If anyone has experince with this cough like sound, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Thanks so much for your guidance, support and encouragement. Baxter sound so wonderful... it is so rewarding to make sure these creatures with long lives have a good home after they loose their first family. This is a great fourm thanks everyone I have gotten so much out of people's responses.

Thanks everyone. I am not worried about his not talking except to think of it as a symptom of a problem. I'm glad to find out it is normal. You guys are great. I will take it slow. He is such a wonder, and I'm so glad to give him a forever home. Any more advise or expereince would be appreicated.

I have adopted a twelve year old male Grey. He is such a special guy. He has been here less than 24 hours, and was shipped here, something that worried me but seemed to have gone okay. I wanted to give a home to a grey that needed it. He is suppose to talk a lot, but has not said a word yet, some whistles and cooing like a dove. He is very tame and stepped up right out of his shipping crate. He has bitten a few times, I think mostly out of fear and tiredness. But he seems disoriented. I mixed the pellets his foster family said he ate in with some nuts and he hardly ate. I then mixed steamed some vegetables and tried spoon feeding him and that worked a little. I then fed him the same pellets off of the spoon without nuts and he ate like mad. I felt so bad and confused. He was hungry for what was in his dish but didn't seem to be able to pick it out from the nuts? I want to transition his diet away from just pellet "pretty bird" to organic pellets and vegetables and things like rice, beans, etc... all the good things but I'm wondering if anyone who has rehomed a bird knows has a sense of how long I should keep things the "same" and when I should start making changes. And how realistic it is to expect to change his diet at this stage. Also, does any one have experience with a bird that has been rehomed getting comfortable enough to speak again. Thanks for any advice.

Thanks so much for your reply... It would be great to provide a good home to both. One follow up question. Is it likley that their relatinship with each other prevent them from bonding with me?

HI, I am going to adopt an older African Grey. I have found two birds that really need a home. One is 10 months old and his father is a young boy who thinks chocking him "gently" when he bites is a good way to discipline him. It is horrifying. But I had already found a 12 year old bird that needs a home. I have a large bird enclosrue 8 feet long 6 feet tall and 4 feet deep and wondered if these two amazing males could share this enclosure, even though they have never meet. I want them to be companions with me and each other. Is there any one out there that knows how feasable this is. I can get a divider for the enclosure to keep them each in their own separate large area at first but would want them ultimately to interact with one another and share the space. I know there is no way of knowing for sure, but I would love to know how others with multiple greys have fared with this.