domyoburk

Hmmm... perhaps one of our wise moderator can answer, but I though this motion had a little to do with bonding with a mate? Not that it always does, but on at least one occasion when it got really energetic Ursula puked for me. Which, if you don't know, is an offering of affection.

Ha, Ursula is quite a talker but she's generally silent at the moments things aren't going her way. Except when she's locked up and doesn't want to be - then it's a loud, wild shriek. One of the few bird-like, non-human sounds she makes.

Just to echo what a couple others have said, Ursula was pretty mellow around 6 months. I remember remarking to my husband that she was more boring than I expected a parrot to be. Watch out! She gradually flowered and matured; around a year old she was already a hellion. At 2.5 years old we relish every quiet moment. But she's not much of a toy bird either... she'll play a little when we're home, sitting around with her, but there is little evidence that she touches her toys when we are away. She just seems to retreat to the top corner of her cage and veg out.

This is why, despite the fact that Ursula is a blast, I had to get a dog. I can go over to the dog, any time, anywhere, take hold of him and hug him and kiss him and he even likes it. Ursula cuddles with my husband - she'll sit on his chest as we watch TV and he can cup her head in his hand, but she and I can't cuddle. (He gets a bite on occasion too, though, if he makes a move she doesn't like/doesn't make a move she wants.) I can scratch her neck now and then when she's really in the mood for it but I'm very careful and prefer to use a little popsicle stick to do it. At the same time I have learned to read her body language carefully and she readily steps up for me and likes me to take her around the house on little adventures. I never make her step up, it's always her choice (back when I made her step up, the sight of my hand would make her lunge). If I need to move her and she won't step up on my hand, I get our T-stand; she readily steps up on that and we seem to have an understanding about this. In fact, we have a ritual at night when I come to take her to bed: she's up high on a perch and I offer the T-stand; she never reacts to the T-stand this way at other times. She gets all puffed up and acts like a dragon, posturing and lunging at the T-stand, bobbing her head, acting like she wants the T-stand to scratch her head, then taking hold of the T-stand but refusing to step up. If I push the T-stand toward her she raises her foot until it's near her head and I start to push her over on her back. Then she steps up nicely. All of this is done in slow motion, none of it is real aggression or resistance. It's like she really wants to go to bed but we do this ritual so she can save face. So we have a good relationship, it just doesn't involve my hands very much.

People ask me how Ursula is. I say, great, but imagine living permanently with a FLYING two-year-old.

When someone is thinking of adopting a grey they should have to read this thread first! And then they should have to babysit a grey for a month. Elvenking, thanks for being honest about your frustrations. It helps to talk about this aspect of grey ownership. Ursula can make me SO angry. Like people have said, there's always something I've done when she bites me - I've moved too quickly, or stopped giving her full attention - but it hurts my feelings! One minute sweet, the next painful. And when I'm cleaning the house she dive-bombs my head! Flies over at high speed, hits my head hard with her talons, and then flies off. It's best if I just resign myself to the "game" and remember that this is because she wants my attention (when I hear her coming, I duck). When I read I have to hold a spray bottle in my hand - she can't stand being ignored, so she lands repeatedly in places she knows she isn't supposed to be and watches me carefully or even says, "Get off of there!" I aim the spray bottle at her and she flies away, satisfied. For a moment. They are harmless games if I play "correctly" and don't get frustrated!

I confess that several weeks after getting Ursula (she was a baby), I said to my husband, "I hate to admit it... but she's kind of... boring." She would just sit up on her perch, fluff up, and sit there. Ah, sometimes I miss those days, now! Ursula and her talking and personality dominate just about every moment in our home... Have fun watching Axel's personality unfold!

Well, I would recommend visiting a good vet who has lots of experience with birds - if you can find one! If your vet does not have so much experience with parrots, I am sure mine would be happy to talk to her/him on the phone. My vet did an xray, and the inflammation and problems with Ursula's GI tract were visible. But no big rush - sounds like things are changing a lot for Rocky right now. When we finally discovered Ursula's problem she was biting off about 30 feathers a day - continuous and heart-breaking. After the vet's diagnosis we took her off pellets immediately and it went down to a few feathers a day right away, and then eventually stopped. A diet change might make things worse for Rocky, who knows. But just keep it in mind as a possibility!

Good luck with your efforts, gotfaith! I feel I should let you know something, an experience that may be met with skepticism on this listserve because the current wisdom is "pellets and no seeds." In short, our grey plucks extensively when she eats pellets, her digestive system can't handle them (confirmed by x-rays at our avian-only vet). She does much better on seeds plus veggies/fruits/nuts; this is, after all, what they evolved to eat. For her, plucking is a sign that she is in discomfort or even pain (she plucks where it hurts). It sounds like you are quite sure this is behavioral, but don't rule anything out, and remember all our greys are different! Forgive me for poking my nose in, and congratulations on your new friend!

Ursula gets very jealous too, when I wrestle with, play with, feed or comb Curly. She comes right over and tries to get involved. Curly and I make growling noises as we wrestle, and she quickly learned how to growl. Ursula had stopped showing any interest in playing ball (we throw a small wiffle ball in the air and she flies to knock it down with her talons), but she plays with enthusiasm once we start playing ball with Curly. And Curly, true to dog form, walks around the house vacuuming up all the seed shells. Motivates us to keep things clean, anyway.

Hello, friends. Do you have a dog as well as a grey? How do the parrot and dog get along? Any interesting/funny stories? Ursula (our grey) is 2.5, and we've had Curly, our Cockapoo, for about 4 months. He's 1.5. Ursula quickly learned all the things we say to Curly - come, come 'ere boy, Curly, Curlito, Curly no... she also imitates his bark quite accurately and then says, "Shhh! quiet." Curly completely ignores her speech (do your dogs pay attention?). The two are very interested in each other, though. Ursula likes to land next to Curly, especially when he's on the bed, and walk over to him, touch her beak to his nose and nibble on his feet. We always watch very carefully and never leave them alone together, but Curly is very good-natured about it. He sniffs and watches her and then ignores her. Sometimes she walks over and lifts a foot like she'd like to step up on him. Curly would love to get his teeth on a squirrel and has been known to chase seagulls, but he seems to recognize Ursula as a family member (although, again, we'd never trust them alone together). Looking forward to your stories!

Wow, parrots differ a great deal. We similarly bought Ursula clipped at 4 months. She was always game to try flying, diving off of things at a moment's notice. I think it was a pretty short clip but she never crashed or landed hard. She definitely couldn't maintain any altitude, but the decline to the floor was gradual (think 45-degree descent), and she learned to avoid objects. Primaries started being molted and replaced between 1 and 1.5 years old. With each new primary she got better at flying. There was never an awkward period, just a gradual increase in abilities. We never had to train or coax her. At 20 months she was an ace flyer and her weight has increased since then from about 380g to 410g (she is now 30 months old). Good luck and have fun!

You're probably right about the only option when she is acting up/out to get attention is to stop and pay positive attention to her. We've taught her to say, "I'm QUEEN of the world!" because she is. On the other hand, she really doesn't seem to mind spending some (some!) time in her bedroom cage while we are home. The light is on for her, it's a big cage, she can hear us nearby. She doesn't scream, she just talks and sings calmly and then sits quietly up on her favorite perch. Being in her cage within sight of us, however, seems very distressing and frustrating to her. I guess they're all individuals, eh?

FYI - I don't know that it's necessary that everyone and everybird in the house treat this the same way... but each person needs to be consistent. My husband is Ursula's favorite and he allows her on his shoulder with no problem (of course, no pierced ears). I don't trust her on my shoulder at all, so I consistently shrugged her off (for a while I think I would even duck when she flew over...). She rarely tries to land on me anymore, but clearly knows she can land on my husband. Of course, she also feels free to land on anyone other me, so I guess if we wanted to train her not to land on people it would have be all-or-nothing...

We (my husband and I) love Ursula, and she is a valued part of the family. She is two years old and we've had her since she was 4 months old. She is fully flighted, and when we are home she is out of the cage all the time - except when we have to put her in the cage in our bedroom to give ourselves a break for our own sanity. She is such a pest she drives us to enormous frustration and distraction on a regular basis. She is bold, smart, and knows how to DEMAND attention. My husband can hardly move when he is home because Ursula lands on him and heads for the action (he's the favorite). I've trained her not to land on me so much, but then she just lands on all kinds of places she KNOWS she's not supposed to be, just to get my attention; I have to make her get off those places, because if I ignore her she starts happily wreaking havoc there (back of the couch, countertop, tops of doors... watching carefully all the time for my reaction). She has at least two good perches in every room of the house - one close to our level, and one up high with a good vantage point. But these aren't good enough; lately, she's happiest when sitting on our hand receiving our full attention. When I sweep the house she dive-bombs my head. All she wants it to be with us. If we put her in her (giant, full-of-toys-and-treats) cage when within sight of us, she just shrieks repeatedly and digs at the corner to get out. If we put her in her cage in another room or leave her home, she just sits up in the corner and waits for our return (no evidence she plays with any of her toys or treats, although she talks a lot). It's a great relief when she finally has had enough direct attention and goes to a perch to talk or groom. My husband is alone with her all day Saturdays, his day off from work, and by the end of the day she's exhausted him and he can't wait to leave the house. Does anyone have any encouragement or suggestions for us? We may just have to resign ourselves to things being this way, I suppose. Being a classic example of, "Watch out, parrots are a lot of work!"

On the aviator harness thread I wrote that I couldn't put a harness on Ursula because she's learned how to get exactly what she wants by biting me - grabbing a finger and then pinching harder and harder. Our relationship is quite close and fun and positive (I can kiss her beak, she follows me everywhere, and talks in my voice), it just doesn't include my hands. I work on positive reinforcement to keep things somewhat peaceable, but it takes effort even to keep her stepping up on my hand without lunging to bite. (She's two, and is better with my husband.) Jillybeanz wrote back, very wisely, that the way to get a harness on is to move smoothly and confidently, remaining calm even if one has to endure a couple bites. I know this is true, but I can't help the fear, and picturing my hands covered in bruises and v-shaped bloody puncture wounds. I have been conditioned. Any thoughts out there for how to re-condition ourselves into calm confidence despite the biting?

But Ow! I have to admit that Ursula has trained me - when she doesn't like what I'm doing she grabs my finger and then pinches harder and harder. She is very, very smart and knows exactly how to get what she wants. I can kiss her beak and we otherwise have a great relationship, but my hands aren't part of it. I would love to put the fear aside and move without hestitation, but I am picturing hands covered with painful bruises and bloody V-shaped puncture wounds! I know this is exactly the wrong thing to have in mind, but does anyone have any advice for me? Maybe I should start another thread with this!

Anyone else have an aviator harness that, like ours, is sitting unused in a drawer? Ursula is two; I tried putting in on her (gradually getting her used to it over weeks, following all the DVD instructions, when she was about one, the first time she drew my blood). We stepped outside and it was fun, but taking it off was a disaster - once it was a little loose, she got her claw in it and freaked out before I could get it off... I have to work hard just on keeping her friendly to stepping up on my hand. My husband is her favorite but even he would have a hell of a time with the harness. Don't get me wrong, Ursula is very loving and social, wants to be near all the time, chats up a storm, just doesn't care to be touched much other than the occasional neck scratch when SHE feels like it. And you'd better watch out for the moment she DOESN'T feel like it anymore. I had a parrot behavioral consultant over who gave me advice about keeping Ursula willing to step up, and when I asked how to work on the harness she laughed and suggested I work on learning to walk before I try the Indie 500 with the Indie 500 of birds! Anyway, not to discourage anyone - go for it, what a wonderful thing. Wish we could do it, at least Ursula flies indoors. Start as young as possible!

Let's all make a pledge to still be true to our birds when they - and we - get old! It won't be easy. I can think of a dozen reasons I might need to find Ursula a new home (she's two) someday - illness, poverty, a behavior like a jet-plane-decibel scream that goes on and on, etc... Of course I can think of a dozen reasons I might need to get a divorce, too. But I am determined to stay true to my commitments. We can be a new generation of parrot owners... I personally think many of the old parrots are out there locked in cages and largely unappreciated. We are changing the expectations, though, so things will change!

Thanks, Everyone! We say "Bye bye!" when we're leaving for a long time and "Be right back!" when we are just stepping out for a minute (e.g. taking out the garbage). Ursula is two but refuses to learn "Bye bye." Instead, she says "Be right back!" when we are leaving. One day she was in her cage as I was saying "Bye bye" and leaving for work; she responded with "Be right back" and then used another phrase she has learned, which broke my heart: "It's OK." I say this when something scary has happened, she picked it up easily. "Be right back. It's OK. It's OK. Be right back," rang in my ears all day.

In most of the bird world, the males do most or all of the singing, so it's natural to expect that it might be so with parrots too. But Ursula is a DNA-tested female and she's a complete blabbermouth. She chatters pretty much constantly for 4+ hours everyday (not all in one block), even when she's alone.

Interesting thread! As most of you, we try to leave Ursula alone as little as possible, but still be reasonable. We both work, but sometimes I can bring her with me! She's quite popular there. She knows the difference between us stepping out for a smoke or to bring out the garbage - we say, "Be right back." When we're really leaving we say, "Bye bye!" She doesn't say "Bye bye" - when it's clear we're leaving she lets out a loud call like a flicker. And then she often seems to be consoling herself by repeating, "Be right back!" That makes it extra hard to leave!

Ursula is just under 2 years old, and so far the only consistent pattern is.. change! For a long time she just wanted her favorite person (my husband) to hold her on his fingers, his fingers on his chest, and scratch her neck - for hours, usually while we were watching TV. Lately, now fully flighted, she prefers to sit near us, on her perch way up near the ceiling, preening or talking pretty much constantly while we watch TV... for hours! We have to use subtitles! But this seems to be her favorite part of the day. She is nowhere near anything I would call cuddly, although she is deeply bonded to us. She will accept a neck scratch if she is in the mood, but it often seems like she's doing YOU a favor.

It makes for a completely different relationship - they can communicate what they want physically. Now we know that Ursula wants to be in the same room with us, or at least in the hallway or something, where she can see us or be very near, ALWAYS. We're her flock! Nearby and as high as possible, of course, is even better. And when we're walking around doing stuff she is very curious and prefers to be riding around on us watching the proceedings. She also chases a laser light back and forth - great exercise! Try it if you haven't already!

Good suggestions on this thread! Especially the training to hand as a substitute for head landings and the wagging the head back and forth to avoid them (I duck way down). Thing is, I personally prefer Ursula to land on my head as there are no ears or eyes for her to chomp on there. She's not so mellow with me as with my husband so these are always possibilities! I also am working on training her to STAY - showing my palm and giving her a treat when she doesn't fly over. Of course, we're at the very early stages - that only works when she doesn't actually want to fly over!