Acappella

I was trying not to put this on photobucket 'cause it's kind of gross, but those of you with soup makers will understand!

Sorry, I've got to read the tutorial about re-sizing pictures! I'll try again later.

I've been thinking I need to get a water bottle for days when I'm away for a few hours, because on days when I'm here I can change his water five times. This is what he likes to do to his water!

M2MM, I've got the book you mentioned on order. One thing this video doesn't show is that Dorian actually spends most of his day wandering around the outside of his cage, or perched on one of his exterior perches. He is no more willing to step up from the outside than he is from the inside. LMG, it's like he's turned letting go of his cage into a big fear in his head. He is fine once he's away from it. I have videos and pictures of him sitting on a table top perch eating and talking away, happy as a pig in, well, you know:P I was hoping that with repetition he'd start to remember that being away from his cage is fun, but the intial battle isn't getting any better. On the contrary, now he just hears the words 'step', 'outside' or 'adventure' and he retreats to a corner shaking. He does make a fuss when I leave the room, first contact calls, then getting more and more hysterical. However, he doesn't want to come with me, he wants my butt back where he is!:angry: That's why I tried to push the issue a bit. If I'm working in any part of the house other than his room, or if I'm outside, he just calls and calls the whole time, and not in a meek way! Where's the line between respecting his space and letting him be the boss? Zpyder, I've tried what you suggest. There's no treat that I've found yet that he wants badly enough to let go of his cage to move onto my hand, although he clearly knows what step-up means. (I just bought some NutriBerries. If he figures he likes them, I'll reserve them only for training) He must also feel pretty safe when he's on my hand, or else he wouldn't stand one footed to chew on his other foot the way he does, would he? I try to 'take the bite, and I have the hands to prove it:ohmy: but sometimes reflex happens too fast to listen to the brain!

WooHoo, success, and it only took me 4 hours to do! I don't know why the audio went so tinney sounding when I edited it, but at least you have the visual now. This was after a few hours outside in the afternoon, and I was trying to transfer him into his main cage.

OK, here's another try.

OK guys, I'm a tecno novice, but here's my attempt to show you a video of what it's like to try to get Dorian out of or off of a cage. This is after an afternoon outside in his small cage.

Dorian will take a treat from my hand, or out of his dish, and toss it when he feels wronged or annoyed. I've caught him trying to get to that same treat a few minutes later. Just part of his charming personality!:laugh: Joey actually sounds like he's settling in pretty well. One word of warning. If you don't like a sound he's making, do not react to it at all. Talking back, reassuring, saying 'no', covering your ears. . . Any reaction, even if you think it's a negative one, may be entertaining to him, and you could end up reinforcing a behaviour you want to extinguish. Same rule applies to parrots as to children, that even negative attention is better than none! Congrats on your new flock member:)

Has anyone ever tried something like Pam (spray-on baking powder) in these situations?

I do the same things that Mcgyver described. Dorian and I play "this little piggy" most nights, and I trim a talon (or two if I can get away with it) if one has become needle sharp. Never more than a mm or so at a time. I also have something like cornstarch on hand just in case I cut just barely into the quick, which happened once when he moved on me.

Glad to hear that you've been able to tackle the problems left over from a bad clip. I agree that Jack should probably be in a full size cage. Taking Dorian out in a small cage, even for a couple of hours, I've seen him almost get a wing caught trying to do a big stretch, and that's one reason he's never out of my sight when we're outside. If Jack has room to stretch, play, maybe even flap his wings without interference from bars or toys, it might help him to heal faster physically, maybe even help him emotionally. Just take care to introduce any changes gradually. You know your bird and how well he handles change. Let that be your guide (and of course we're here)

I don't know if this sounds weird, but maybe he's picking up on your apprehension and it's contributing to his reaction. If your body language, your voice etc... is saying "this is going to be bad, please don't hate me" he may be thinking "wow, dad's really nervous, something bad is coming!" Something that helped with Dorian. He's seen me use a spray bottle (filled with water, not aloe) spray my own face, my hair. He's also seen me brushing the cat and using a spray bottle on the brush, even on Jac, to keep the flying hair contained. When I'm brushing the cat I give him lots of praise and attention, talk in a happy voice, all in full view of Dorian. He's not afraid of the spray anymore, although I don't think he'll ever be friends with it!

Everybody else has pretty much covered what you need to do. I just have one more piece of advice. I'd get some earplugs or noise cancelling headphones to save your sanity:P

You're showing a geat deal of maturity by doing your research and not making an impluse decision. Many greys end up not being cared for properly and needing to be rescued because their owners (usually fully mature so-called adults) didn't know what kind of commitment they were getting in to, and lots of us have re-holmed birds who need extra love and care because of it. By waiting until you are older myabe one of these special greys will find it's way into your life. By all means, look in to some of the smaller breeds of birds that the others have mentioned. Just make sure you have a place where it can live and be part of your family, and where it won't feel threatened by your cat, who might look at a smaller bird as a free lunch:P

Thanks Melissa, I didn't even know it was on my machine. But now I can't get Movie Maker to talk to my friend's camera. It's a Panasonic, which runs any video it takes in the format for QuickTime. In order to get access to editing funtions in QuickTime I have to buy the pro version of the software. Since I know the camera I'm going to buy isn't a Panasonic, I'm not going to fork over money for sonthing that might not work with whatever I do get. I hate this proprietary stuff! Long story short, everyone here may have to wait until I can afford to buy a camera myself to see 'The Dorian Show'

Every single time I clean around his cage, I no sooner take the garbage out of the room than Dorian is throwing and shredding whatever is handy back onto the area I just cleaned. He seems to find a clean floor as some sort of insult to his sensibilities!

Sameera, re: your question about how long you should ignore a bird for bad behaviour, you can pretty much apply child psychology. If you accept that a grey reaches the equivalent of a human toddler emotionally, then 30 minutes is way too long for what is essentially a 'time out'. A time out for a chld should be about as long as the child's age in years. So a one-year old's time out is about one minute. Any longer and they no longer associate the time-out with the associated unwanted behaviour. That being said, I'm not at all sure that walking away from plucking will help. Turning your back, removing yourself from the bird's sight for a couple of minutes, will be more effective to diminish things like screaming. From a psycological angle again, if you're walking away from plucking then the 'punishment' is the withdrawal of your attention and company. It will only work to stop the plucking if pulling out her feathers is an attempt to get extra attention from you. From what I've read, birds don't pluck to get attention initially, but for physical or emotional problems or anxiety. As long as you don't react to her pulling a feather by making a big fuss (lots of vocalization, cuddles, kisses ...) she won't learn to associate plucking with attention. I can empathise with your feeling like crying sometimes. Dorian had me on the floor in tears a couple of days ago (I'll update later on today) All we want to do is make them safe and happy, but they can't understand that even when our actions scare them, we're just trying to love them. Give Zahzu lots of time and space to settle back into her routine, lots of praise and attention when you 'catch' her doing something good, and keep looking for another vet. Maybe there's a bird rescue or even a zoo that you could call for a reference? Here's another cyber hug for you, and a kiss for your baby from Dorian and me. XO

No, No, No, No, No. Everything I've read says that kind of behaviour modification absolutely does not work with birds. They're not dogs!!! Their flock metality is completely different. Trust your instincts and find another vet asap! Did the vet towel her over her head before he asked you to hold her so that at least she couldn't see who was holding her and associate you with the pain? If she was towelled and the feather was pulled then you could have made a big performance of 'rescuing' her and not damage the trust you're building. Here's another example of a vet who puts his/her own fragile ego above the well-being of the animals and the worry of their owners. I'd just let her have a quiet couple of days with lots of talking, laughing, from you, which I'm sure you're already doing. It may take a little while for her to recover from this vet visit, and longer to stop the plucking, but just keep reminding yourself that a few days, weeks, or even months, aren't much in the life of a grey. You probably want to hold her and cuddle her and tell her it's going to be ok. This is when having a bird that isn't yet comfortable with being held is really hard on us parronts. Here's a cyber hug for you and a cyber kiss for Zahzu. XO

Over a year ago, while Dorian was still in the store, I got him used to me playing 'This little piggy' with his talons while he was hanging onto the side of the cage. So he's used to me lightly grabbing a talon and wiggling it about, playing with it. When I notice one has gotten needle sharp, I put claw trimmers in my other hand and quickly trim off just the tip. Sometimes I get away with two, usually just one at a time. I did cut the quick once. He moved as I was cutting and I just barely got it. Felt like such a bad mom! A little dab of cornstarch stopped the bleeding, although it had almost completely stopped on its' own. He recovered faster than I did!

Well, outside trips has been one of my success storys with Dorian. He's been out with me 5 times in the 17 1/2" square, 28" high cage I have. The first couple of times he was very quiet, hardly moving, eating nothing, and I spent most of the time sitting right beside his telling him what everything and every noise was. Yesterday I took him to the garden in the back and talked to him while I worked. He was soon chatting back, stretching, shredding his toy, ringin his bell, and "talking back" to some wildbirds. Didn't think much of our local crow's calls, but then again, neither do I! I've never put him out in the middle of a space. He's always sheltered on at least one, preferably two, sides, and I've had either a canopy or the house eaves sheltering him from above. He still doesn't think much of the process of getting him outside, because the cage is awkward for me to carry smoothly, but I think he's figuring out that outside can be a good thing!

Thanks everyone. We both woke up in a better mood this morning. Here he sits in my office eating his breakfast while I type. It's another sunny day so I am going to take apart his main cage and take it outside for a good clean & let him watch the whole thing. I guess I made things sound a little worse than they are. Here are the things he DOES do. If I open his cage door and say "wanna come out for a walk?" he comes out and climbs around the outside of his cage. He also has a couple of exterior perches he likes to use. Once in a while (about once every couple of weeks) he surprises me by climbing down to the floor and having a short walkabout, during which I praise the heck out of him and make a big deal of it. Funny thing. If he's gone down to the floor on his own, he won't step up for me, but if he gets startled down he feels in need of a rescue and steps up like an angel! Pat, he still doesn't have a clue what to do with a foot toy. I sit on the floor and play with some, toss them around, beak them, even let the cat bat them around (Jac loves the IKEA abacus I got at a yard sale, don't worry just paws, not mouth) That switch hasn't flipped for Dorian yet. He has recently been trying new foods like millet and Avi Cakes if I pretend to eat them first and, like you said, don't let him have them right away! So I'm hopeful he'll soon make the same connection with foot toys. Anyway, I'm off to take apart his cage and take it, and him, outside for a while. I'll take pictures of the new set-up when I'm done and let you know if he goes in. Wish me luck and thanks for the encouragement guys! Marguerite

I feel like I'm going to cry. Another battle of the wills with Dorian today. It was beautiful out and I was spending the whole afternoon in the garden. I can hear Dorian calling and calling for me and I decided he was coming out with me. Had the usual dramatics getting him to let go of his cage. I had to use a stick to herd him towards an exterior perch where I could get him to a dead end and he has to step on to my hand. It's the first time I've done that, but it was either that or gloves or a towel. He's a perfect angel once he's on my hand, steps up beautifully, has never bitten me. So we went outside and I put his cage up on his stand in a sheltered part of the patio where he could always see me. He didn't talk or eat while he was out, but he did keep making contact calls with me and I just talked to him as usual, telling him what I was doing. I'm sure the neighbours think I'm nuts! Anyway, it started to rain so I picked him up cage and all and moved him back downstairs onto the floor in front of his cage. I opened the door and asked him to step up, and he lunged for me. Actually bruised my hand, you know, the meaty part between thumb and index finger. I did the sad face, sad voice, 'no bite' gave him a second and tried again. Long story short, it's almost four hours later and he's still in the small cage. I've put it in the office here with me and he's eating his supper and chatting away. So here's what I think I've decided to do, but I want your advice. I haven't had his cage apart for a total cleaning since he moved here in October, because he's always in it. Also, the only perch inside his cage is a dowel that runs its' length that I've wanted to replace since day one because I know it's not good for his feet. I have new perches that I've been moving around the room close to his cage for a couple of weeks, and he's been on them outside so I don't think he's scared of them anymore. I'm going out for a couple of hours tonight, and he's had a stressful day, so I thought I'd just leave him in the small cage overnight here in the office and put him to bed when I go out. Tomorrow I want to let him watch while I clean his cage, change the perches, and put in his favourite toys. Then comes the battle. I'm going to try to video what we go through when I'm trying to get him out of a cage so you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I really am almost in tears here. I hate stressing him, and it doesn't do wonders for my stress level either! I'm just trying to make his world bigger, but right now I feel like giving up and just letting him stay cage bound. Problem with that is then I feel guilty leaving him alone and I stop going outside because I'm sitting with him! I know you're not supposed to force them to do anything they don't want, but bottom line, I have to be able to handle him in case of an emergency. btw, as I type, he's sitting on his perch one foot tucked up, grinding his beak! At least one of us seems to be feeling ok!

Dorian also thinks he can sing, my fault because I sing around him all the time. I call it his "Maria Callas being strangled" routine. And I can never catch it on tape:(

Hi guys. I borrowed a digital camera from a friend so that I could document some of Dorian's goofiness, and of course now I want to share it with you! Problem. I don't have any video editing software. I want to be able to edit out his long periods of silence between outbursts, and to make the file small enough to put on photobucket. Something really easy to use, as I'm not exactly gifted when it comes to computers, and cheap/free would be great, as I'm also not rolling in cash. Any advice from you computer wizzes out there?

You remind me of an old Cosby routine from when he first started having kids. His first girl was calm, quiet, slept through the night right away, ate everything, rarely cried. So he figured this parenthood thing was a cinch and decided to have a second child right away. His description of the second girl went something like "She came out smoking a cigar, her head spun all the way around twice, and she shouted 'Alright, who's in charge here?!'" Consider yourself in the 'I got suckered in here' club! I hope Altair settles and calms soon. Have fun getting to know him.