Acappella

No silly question here. We're thrilled you're here educating yourself and asking questions, so never hesitate. You won't find a better, more experienced, more supportive group of people than you'll find here. I rescued my Dorian as an adult, but if you're bringing a baby into your life, trust the experience of Dave, Jay and all the others with baby bird experience. Don't worry about bonding. DohDoh and I met when he was 4 and he couldn't be more bonded to me. I've been a member here long enough to have read lots of stories of things going wrong when someone was sold a baby when it was too young. I would never consider bringing an un-weaned baby home. I do have some concerns, however, on how they're being weaned. It sounds like the shop owner is giving them a seed diet, which is easy for the human, but not ideal for the parrot. Abundance weaning is the way to go. Almost all birds love sunflower seeds, they way toddlers love McDonalds french frys. When you do bring your baby home really focus on presenting a variety of healthy foods, maybe saving the sunflower seeds as treats or rewards. As far as choosing, if you do prefer either a boy or girl ask the shop owner if he'll have them sexed. Are you able to sit with them both and see if one of them is more interested in you than the other is? Do they react to toys differently? Trust your gut feeling and pick the baby that 'calls' you. Which ever one you pick, you're going to have to get used to beak and talon marks as your baby explores its' world. In another thread a while ago here someone said you know you're a parrot owner when your hand looks like you're a member of fight club!!! Sorry about the loss of your cat, he was gorgeous. When we open our hearts to animals some pain is part of the deal, but it's a small price to pay for the love and joy they bring to us. Good luck with your new baby birdy.

Holland play in just under 2 1/2 hours. I'm sooooooo nervous.

So, how did your visit with the consultant go?

Well, it's noon on Tuesday where I am. Is the store open yet? What'd they say????????

Has it gotten bad enought that they need to be reported?

Germany will play whoever wins the Paraguay-Spain match. Please cheer for Netherlands if your team is out. They're a great team from a teeny-tiny country. Goooooooo Orange

Don't give up on Madame yet Susi. I have some questions. You mentioned she does whistle to you, but does she vocalize at all? Does she talk, imitate household noises, mumble to herself, talk to toys etc... Knowing that would give us an indication of how happy she is overall. How big is the cage she is in? Is there room for her to spread her wings, play with toys? Does she know how to play? Do you provide her with foraging opportunities? Especially if she is wild-caught (poor baby), foraging would be a natural behaviour. Where is her cage located? Is it in an area of the house where she can observe household activity, but still feel safe? A cage should be against at least one wall, or in a corner, for a nervous bird to feel more secure. How many hours of sleep does she get a night? What is her diet? When I think of the trauma a wild-caught bird goes through it makes sense that they distrust all humans. I would recommend you treat her as if she just arrived in your home today. When you approach the cage try to put your eyes at least level with her, or even a slight bit lower. It also helps if you 'shutter' your eyes, let the lids be half-closed, or approach from the side with one eye totally closed. When we approach a frightened bird straight on from above with both eyes open and focused on her, we look like predator animals, and they are the prey, so you have to make yourself look less threatening. How close can you get to the cage before she starts with the grey growl? Mark that distance, and then set up a chair there and just hang out. Read aloud a bit, talk back and forth, or just sit and read a book yourself, just get her used to you being at that distance. Then slowly (and I mean over a matter of weeks possibly) move that 'just hanging out with her' chair closer to the cage. If the growl starts, back up a bit. I'm serious when I say this could take weeks, but you're 6 years in, you obviously have patience on your side. Getting a baby and letting her see you interact with it may work, but you would always have to treat Madame as #1 in the flock, greeting her first, feeding her first etc... I would wait until I'd given birdy re-hab a few months of focused attention because a baby is a full-time job. Let us know the answers to the questions above about Madame and we'll see if we can advise you further.

Dan, stop reading my mind I was going to recommend looking for a nearby rescue as well. Even if you end up buying a baby from a breeder, rescue work will give you a clear picture of how much work is involved in caring for a parrot, especially multiple birds of different species. We're always so happy here when we see someone like you really doing their research before taking on parronthood. You're going to make a great birdy mom!

Everyone has given great advice. Keep in mind that every time that beak touches you it isn't for a bite. I had Dorian up with my dad last night and dad kept on asking why I was letting Dorian bite me, but he wasn't biting. He's still nervous when he's being carried (came to me totally terrified of hands), so when he's nervous he often 'tests' his perch by gently holding on with his beak. Once in a while he gets a little too hard and I have to distract him and say 'gentle', but most of the time he's just gently re-assuring himself that he has a firm perch. He can read your mood, and if you're apprehensive, that will in turn make him nervous. I got some great advice from an animal behaviourist last summer. She told me to treat Dorian like he was already the bird I wanted him to be, like we already had the relationship I wanted. It really changed my attitude when I approached him, and he seemed to notice the change in my confidence, which in turn seemed to relax him. It's like they think, 'she's not nervous, I guess everything is ok'. Just like a child who falls, if the parent freaks out and runs to them they seem to figure "I must be hurt, I'd better start crying", but if the parent calmly says 'oops, get back up' the kid just goes about its' business. You can't over-estimate the influence you have. If you have to, do some visualisation before you interact with your baby. Picture yourself over and over again calmly approaching the cage. Even rehearse in your mind what you will do if you do get a bite. (btw, what you do in that case is calmly say 'no bite', make a very sad face, because they totally read our facial expressions, and then turn your back on the bird/walk away for a couple of minutes. Then go back to him all happy, like nothing happened) Combine these practices with learning to read birdy body language, and you can make great progress in developing a relationship with your new baby. Of course, we're always here to cheer you on.

Bye Bye Brazil, hope you have a nice trip home

Yay Netherlands.

So, you're going to use the camera to shoot videos of your birds, which you in turn will share with us, yes?

When you turn off the World Cup because the stadium noise is bothering your bird.

Congrats on hearing Murphy start to use his 'human' voice. btw, what he was mumbling the first time you asked him to step up may have been "you're not the boss of me"

Clearly Spock, in his logical way, has figured out that this method of decent expends less energy than flying does. He's only saving up calories until he's at optimal health again.

What about trying one of the 'Bird Sitter' videos? I don't use them because Dorian actually seems to be annoyed by the tv, but others here do. It might be some company during the day for your baby.

I tried introducing Dorian to a treat stick once, and he was terrified of it. I did everything I could think of to convince him it was a good thing, including pretending to eat from it, but he was having none of it. So I used it. I had a friend who would come over and look after Dorian if I was away. He used to like Debbie, but now he knows Debbie being here means mom is away, and he trys to attack her when she changes his dishes. All she has to do is wield the 'treat stick of death' and he stays clear long enough to get everything done

The thing is, these people have a mental illness. Hoarders often suffer from anxiety that becomes unbearable when they have to get rid of their 'stuff' because having it around comforts them. If you take away their stuff without their permission, they'll just re-create the chaos as soon as they can. This is true of animal hoarders. They truly believe they are caring for the animals and that they're doing a good thing. The A&E show offers subjects after care money, and at least the birds are now in a safe, clean room, which is a step-up from the environment they were in before the show. I just hope the situation is now being watched and that she gets some help. Even the professional organizer on the show, who specializes in extreme hoarding, said this was the saddest house he'd ever been in. At least the show is making people aware of hoarding as a mental illness, the same way depression is. Hope they do a follow up on this woman.

Does anyone watch Hoarders on A&E? This week they had a show that made me soooo sad. They've had animal hoarders on before, but this week they had a bird hoarder. This woman had 57 birds, including at least one TAG and one CAG. The conditions were so sad. At the end of the show they returned the birds to her because there was no law in the area restricting the numbers of exotic pets people were allowed to keep. Here's the link if anyone is interested. http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/video/?bcpid=44241147001&bclid=88241443001&bctid=88466921001

"Hey, put that pillow back, I'm trying to have a bath here. Some privacy would be nice!!!!!"

I was wondering about a dab of food colouring on the bottom of the foot as well. Does everyone think that would be safe?

Dorian here. Spock, have you tried sucking up instead of flying off. For example, I don't understand why I can't sleep on my playstand in the same room where my mom and that darn cat sleep, but everynight she says 'time for bed-bye' and tries to remove me into my cage. So when she puts her hand out, I put my head down and ask for scratches. She can't resist! Then after a few minutes we have fun with her chasing me around the playstand while she says things I don't understand, like 'have you ever won this battle you little goof'. When she finally tricks me onto her hand and puts me into my cage, I put my head down again and get even More scratches!!!! When I can tell she's getting tired, making kissy noises can buy me another few scratches. Then, when she closes the door and starts to walk away, say something like 'I loooooove you', so at least she feels guilty for turning off the lights. I can put-off the dreaded bed time by at least half and hour by doing this stuff. They're suckers for it!!!

Even after the vet check and the quarantine period is over you would almost certainly not be able to put them in the same cage together. She is going to come with a lot of emotional baggage and you'll have to get to know her very well before you even risk letting them have play time outside the cage together. Greys don't automatically get along with each other. Males and females don't either. If you do this rescue, and I hope you or somebody does soon, it will require time and dedication from you. Don't skip the quarantine precautions. Don't don't don't. We've have members here in the past who have rushed things and ended up with expensive vet bills for the new bird, and their existing bird(s). That being said, two greys can be wonderful company for each other without being in the same cage. They talk to each other and pick up vocabulary quickly from one to the other. Seeing you interacting with Brutus and seeing the relationship you have with him can help speed up the trust between you and the rescue. As long as you always treat Brutus as #1 bird, waking, feeding, and giving treats to him first, you should be able to minimize any problems with jealousy between the two. Having a rescue myself, I can tell you the rewards when a previously neglected and abused bird comes to trust and love you, and flourish under your care, are huge and worth all the extra work. Please let us know what you decide.

hee hee hee

I found this forum after Dorian made it clear he'd decided I was his human and he needed to come home with me. I knew nothing about birds and set out to find everthing I could about making his life as good as possible. Starting my bird experience with a rescue grey was a huge leap into the unknown. What saved me is that I knew that I knew nothing. That, and I've never been afraid of appearing stupid by asking questions. From the moment I asked my first one, everyone here has been kind, encouraging and supportive. Dorian's life, and my life with him, is getting better every day because of the knowledge and support I've received. A forum like this one, and the internet as a whole, are wonderful tools, but they have their limitations. Some are language based, as we all know that english is not the first language of all our members. A huge part of human communication is done through body language and vocal intonation, something even the most creative emoticons can't convey. Then there's the fact that any person concerned enough about their animal's quality of life to be an active member here is obviously a caring, loving person. We animal lovers do tend towards the passionate. I offer a piece of advice I got from a wise college professor. She believed in the therapeutic benefit of writing letters, or journalling, when you felt slighted by someone else, but she also believed it was important to get your thoughts out on paper, then walk away from them and re-read after you are in a calm state of mind, before you take any action. Keeping her in mind, whenever I read something here that upsets me and I am tempted to fire off a response, I may type it in, but I never ever ever hit send or post when I am still upset. If I find I can't join a conversation while staying calm, I don't join the conversation at all. When emotions run high positions become entrenched and progress is almost impossible. So take the advice of a woman who is much wiser than I'll ever be. Taking that deep breath helps to focus your thoughts and makes others more likely to hear what you're saying. I love this community and the way share our knowledge, experience and humour with each other. That's what keeps me coming back.