LNCAG

Snickers doesn't like bedtime or ANY cage time. He won't bite me when I put him in his cage at night, although sometimes he will exert a little more beak force on my hand/fingers (more pressure -- not a true pinch bite or drawing blood or anything) just a "I'm really not happy I am going to bed in my cage" alert. (If you've had a real bite or a pinch bite -- you know the difference!!!). I suppose I could use a handy wooden perch to hold him but I prefer to only use hands with him. He had a bad past with multiple homes and can view 'objects' as scary. So, hands I use. It was 10:30 pm, sorry, but past bedtime for Snickers. His nighttime routine, after caging, is to go immediately to the bottom of his cage and take his rage out on a flattened paper towel roll. He basically stands on the flattened roll and pulls bits of cardboard off each roll quite aggressively. Tonight I noticed he was down to his last roll, already a bit chewed, so I decided to give him another one. (Yeah yeah, he has other toys hanging in his cage, but the flattened paper towel roll is just his choice for his evening "I don't want to go to bed yet so let me destroy something" routine. I flatten a new paper towel roll and am slipping it between the bars so it will fall to the bottom. Well, he grabs it from me so it can't drop. The problem is, I didn't fold up the roll, only flattened it -- so he can't get a good grip on it and he keeps letting it go a second for a retry - basically just trying to re-arrange a too-large object in his beak. Why I didn't just open the door and toss it in is beyond me. Temporary insanity? So, between the bars, I foolishly stuck my finger in, with the intention of pushing the flattened PT roll out of his beak when he let go to re-position his grip on it. I lost. I don't know if he accidentally bit me or if I scraped my finger myself on his beak. I know I am missing a small (but thick) piece of epidermis just above my fingernail and it bled a lot (not on the PT roll itself, just bled on ME). My effort did have the desired effect, the flattened roll fell to the bottom and Snickers is happily standing on his new roll and destroying it as we speak. I am on my second plaster/band-aid and bleeding has finally stopped. I do have missing flesh though, small 2mm strip of top skin gone and red meat showing (sorry, that was a gross but accurate description). I think this will take at least a few days to heal over. It hurts. (whining). I don't think he meant to bite me (if that's what happened) or if he did bite me he probably doesn't realize it -- or perhaps he deliberately bit me on purpose as part of the 'dropping a flattened paper towel roll game'. I do imagine he thought I was playing a paper towel tube game: Goal: him to hold it, me to fail dropping it to bottom of cage. Who knows really? -- they're so smart! I've just never been bitten by him before like this! (Another story one day of the only bite I ever received from him and it was a complete accident on his part -- he thought my hands belonged to someone else). Snickers isn't a biter -- well, correction, he never bites me. Maybe he thought I was playing a game with him, maybe he was just angry it was cage-time/bed-time. I just can't imagine he thought this one through. I often push flattened paper towel rolls through the bars for him at night for him to chew on. I also often just open his door and toss a flattened roll in. (Wish I'd done this tonight!) My feelings aren't hurt. Snickers is a good bird -- cuddly, sweet -- he just hates bedtime or cage-time. If I was a CAG, I'd hate bedtime too! But man, now the next few days will mean a sore index finger for me. I think, with the missing skin chunk, it has to heal from the inside out. Could take a week or more.

I usually don't catch a mistake until seconds after I post it. I wish the "reason for edit" could wait 5 minutes before kicking in. Sometimes I am actually adding additional info to earlier post, and then it makes sense to give the reason for the edit. But sometimes I have just hit "submit/post/send" and see I made a silly simple error within seconds of posting -- and I just hate not to correct it. Like writing "my my parrot", or "I'll look in into it" or even something silly misspelling I missed. Why are mistakes so much clearer after you post them than when you're writing them? I swear I try to proofread my stuff before hitting send/post/submit (whatever it is).... lol

A lot of practical and helpful responses. I realize no one has the power to force a forum to become busy and active -- it just has to happen on its own; and it has to feel effortless and be enjoyable for everyone. And yeah, life does get in the way sometimes of being active in a forum. A woman can dream though: maybe one day I will come online here and there will be too many active threads for me to even read them all!

Tried the ice cube in water bowl trick -- it made crackling noises. Snickers peered into his water bowl but then climbed away, unimpressed. It's mostly melted so I went ahead and removed last fragment. Maybe males just don't have the same interest? He did take a sip of water after ice cube remnant was removed (probably because me removing ice remnant gave the water some attention). What guarantees mine will bathe in his water dish is me hoovering/vacuuming. It must send some message to him of "we're cleaning up now" -- works a lot as your ice cube does! Can't imagine how cold it would be to sit on an ice cube!!!!

(sorry for thread necrotizing and older thread -- but wanted to add content) For a seriously ill bird, I would have to travel 70+ miles for specialized parrot care. (Yeah, I live in a rural area) I took my macaw to a local vet a few years back (broken blood feather) and needed a helpful extra set of hands to pull the blood feather and keep my macaw from bleeding out. 1) they did not know to pull out bleeding feather in direction it was growing (just what I needed, a pulled feather re-broken beneath the skin) 2) they didn't know you have to SUPPORT the wing or pulling feather may rip wing out of socket 3) Has any vet ever heard of adding some pressure or using some styptic powder?!? The vet told me they had 1 DAY in college to study "exotic" pets. Exotic included parrots, snakes, lizards, tarantulas.... so sad. They accepted my assistance gladly and sadly told me how little is taught at veterinary school. I cannot believe with parrots now reaching 3rd most popular pet that so little is taught in veterinary school. Surely exotic pets (or parrots) deserve a couple weeks of study!!!! These were 2008-ish grads. Anyway, for a truly ill bird, I would have to travel. Hope it would be something chronic and not acute.

This is me at repticon a couple years ago (2017 or 2018) -- I look exactly the same. Sorry, my parrots pix are too old and would make you think I was 20 years younger... lol (Oh, I have LOTs of newer parrots pix, just not with me in them) [Okay, changed my mind and shared an OLD picture of me with my beloved Sami -- who happily flies free these days, just not with me! She was a HUGE part of my life for 20+ years. No harm in mentioning I used to be young also, I figure. lol]

I wish we had more than 5 regular posters. I am trying to post more but feel like my efforts may appear as an attempt to dominate the boards here -- and I am just a newly hatched and well aware of such. I would do anything to inject more interest here -- to have people wanting to post more. I just feel like there are so many nice people here (well, any grey lover HAS to be somewhat nice)!!! I am open to any ideas, newbie that I am. I am not a member of any other bird forum on the internet. (Well, I used to sysop on CompuServe for John Benn's Pets/Cats/Dogs/Bird forums (also had a fishnet and a horses forum) -- but that was back in the early 90s when there was no internet to compete with). Plenty of mods here -- but too many chiefs but not enough contributing members is death to forum. I know this well and remember all to well when CompuServe died. I don't mind liking others posts but I am dying of thirst for real discussion. I only have a grey, a multi-homed (somewhat scared and disturbed grey) yet an amazing trusting loving cuddly companion for me I've had since 1997. So, my interest is mostly in CAGs/TAGs these days, parrot-wise. I (notice, so far, every line begins with "I") just want to do anything I can to get people talking. I am not argumentative -- I can take criticism -- I'd like to see all sorts of views shared -- even if yours never leaves the cage and is only offered a seed diet or if your grey has an outdoor aviary and gets fresh fruit/veg every day) we can still learn from each other. And grow. Or entertain each other with silly stories of stuff our greys do. Even if you've already shared your funny stories, newbies (like me) may not have read them yet. Or we can just repeat a million times how special greys are, or how smart, or remark again on those wonderful red tail feathers. Is there a FB page for this site -- some way to let others know it exists??? HOW can I help? I mean, REALLY help? Or should I just shut-up and let a dying forum go? Is there a poll someone could put up and see what people here really want? I will leave if needed, but was just so happy to find this forum and then so sad to see that maybe folks don't realize it's okay to repeat old stories and advice, it's okay -- to newbies it's all NEW! In most forums, I find, most don't search for old threads, they start new ones. Or join in ongoing threads. Most don't take the time to read all the old stuff. If I worked in internet advertising -- this forum would be my new project.

@neoow The guy who started Cape Fear Parrot Sanctuary (where my birds are) had a couple macaws and decided one day how cool it would be if they could just fly free. Like many teenage macaws (been there, done that) his had become sexually mature and moody -- sometimes too, um, affectionate and sometimes downright mean and bitey, Typical for maturing macaws. I saw an article in the paper about his new parrot sanctuary (his own macaws live there!) and that started my dream of maybe one day placing mine there. 2+ years ago I made the decision to let mine join his flock. I had to save up the money first. News has gotten out, and I think he often has to refuse some parrots and refer them elsewhere. They have to keep in mind how many parrots they can truly care for -- and that they need enough indoor space to place them when something horrible happens (like a hurricane or extremely low temps in winter -- winters are usually fairly mild here). Parrots actually do better in cooler temps than really high hot temps -- he only accepts parrots from like April to September so that they can acclimate in time for winter. But, even though parrots can deal with some cold, they can't deal with days of below freezing temps -- hence needing to be indoors before a cold snap comes through. No one wants any lost parrot toes! The sanctuary has a board of directors plus lots of volunteers, it's non-profit and has a lot of community support. I don't think he originally perceived the sanctuary might become a refuge for neglected/abused parrots, but obviously he was delighted to give such parrots a safe refuge. His original dream was for pet parrots to have a place to flock and be free to fly around. His website/FB site now emphasizes neglected/abused/surrendered birds -- so his vision has expanded. I think he has more parrots than he ever intended (up to 270 or so now). It costs a lot for upkeep. I remember last Fall we had a horrible hurricane and it was a huge task to get all the parrots to indoor safety before it hit. I've watched this sanctuary grow from its beginnings -- they own their own land now, and are constantly building and adding on. And, they have an eye for the future knowing one day the task will have to pass to someone younger who has the same vision. ANY eggs are destroyed immediately -- there is no breeding and they do not sell any parrots. This is a lifelong home for parrots. Who knows, one day -- this may be something YOU create -- a safe sanctuary for parrots! I watched a special on the making of "As Time Goes By" (one of my favourite old shows!) and the director talked about how overcast, dismal and rainy UK weather could be -- the actors literally waited under tents until the sun came out and then would rush to get a scene filmed in the 10 minutes of sun they got! lol

New feathers begin to form small under the skin, they increase in size and protrude out of the skin as new baby blood feathers/pin feathers (supplied by blood -- if broken, they can bleed out like an open catheter). Then the blood supply cuts off as the new feather becomes fully formed inside the now much longer protruding sheath. That's a lot of the 'dandruff' you may see -- bits of that sheathing coming off to reveal a fully formed feather. It takes a while (months) for this to happen: when the feather is ready, it's no longer a blood blood feather; the white sheath will fall off (in bits and strips) and the newly developed functional feather is revealed. As new feathers come in, old ones fall off (in your case, these discarded old primary feathers will be 'clipped' ones; and the new primary feathers will be long and fully formed/functional. Expect the wings to be mixed for a while -- some full new feathers, some old clipped feathers. I can't explain it any better, sorry. Definitely within a year a clipped bird will be fully flighted; but since this happens in stages, you should see some new feathers come in anywhere from 4 -6 months. May not make bird fully flighted immediately since some clipped ones will remain. Also, understand, at the time of the clipping, some new feathers were probably already beginning to be formed.

@neoow Completely ignorant about UK weather and if such sanctuaries even exist there. The one I chose was close by me, mostly good weather (winters not too cold) although we are always at hurricane risk. Many times, with a bad cold front or hurricane coming through -- they literally have to catch and place every single bird inside all the volunteer's (and director/board of sanctuaries) private homes to keep them safe. It is a daunting task to move parrots inside, but thankfully, most of the time, bad weather is no issue. I did have to pay to place mine there -- it was costly -- but consider, they are taking care of my babies forever. I obviously make donations and never visit empty-handed. It takes a LOT of volunteers -- this isn't a zoo with federal monies -- it's a private charity sanctuary that depends on donations. But since half the birds there are from people like me who just wanted their parrots to be free -- we all donate. In a way, I suppose we're still caring for our birds even though they don't happen to live with us any longer. That's not to say the other half of their parrots didn't come from rescue situations, prior abuse, owner neglect, owner died, etc.. Sometimes when local authorities get reports of parrot abuse -- they confiscate the birds, and then surrender the parrots to the sanctuary (since many spca/humane societies or local shelters for dogs/cats have no idea what to do with parrots). Obviously, no one pays the sanctuary for these such bird's care -- so our donations help ALL the parrots there. So, some parrots go there just to be free (like mine) but many are rescued/surrendered parrots that just end up there to simply be safe and fed.

@neoow Above and beyond -- your bird is too smart! I loved you pretending to eat his food yourself while making excited happy sounds! Greys are smart enough to rule the world -- they must laugh at us sometimes! I do find if I am eating a meal (one I can share) it is the greatest joy to my grey to eat from my plate. Esp if he thinks he's stealing food by 'grabbing' an item (when really, I was sharing anyway). I know, I know -- human germs -- so I usually just push some 'clean' items to the edge of the plate for him to 'steal.' Although these days, I often just slide some of my meal into his dish and he is happy that we're eating together (flocking, I suppose); parrots always think human food is superior to their own food. (If we humans would just eat more healthy in the first place, ours are really the same diet in many cases).

@Greywings -- I know in googling lima beans it said they were too acidic for me to offer them to my bearded dragon -- didn't know about any risk to parrots -- thanks for the tip! Luckily (like most here) I offer a variety of veg/fruit so no one food is his primary diet. @neoow -- pumpkins and squash types are a favourite here! I know a breeder once told me that a parrot will not let itself starve to death (no, I haven't and won't test this theory to a dangerous end!). But I did start lessening the amount of seeds I offered until he just had to try a few other things. And I did offer 'gimmes' like Cheerios, peanuts, bananas, apple, raisins, etc -- things most any parrot will eat if they even slightly taste it. Mostly, I wanted my parrot to learn to at least 'try' new things. Also, it helps if I am eating the same foods and share mine with my parrot -- that flocking behaviour at work, I suppose. (And nope -- I didn't try this with limas and other beans/peas since I HATE them). But as long as a parrot's favourite food of choice (like seeds) is consistently offered in large enough quantities, I figure there is little motivation for them to try something new. Love the the skewer toy -- I haven't used mine in ages, but it did make my healthy offerings more interesting -- like a toy. Hope your guy will try some more interesting (and healthier) foods!!! Mine views pellets as a snack (I don't offer pellets as primary diet). But like to have pellets available 24/7 in case he gets the munchies when I'm not around.

My b&g macaw Sami had several distinctive 'hellos' -- one was a very soft drawn out and flirtatious 'hel loooooo' ala Joey on Friends. I had her whole life, so no idea where she learned it. For real. I don't say hello like that or know anyone who does. But she does have my own telephone pick-up voice 'hello' down pat. Would often say hello as soon as the phone started ringing. lol (Just so you know, after 20 years of keeping her, I purchased a spot for Sami at the Cape Fear Parrot Sanctuary -- so she's free-flying these days with lots of macaw friends. My favourite days are when I visit her there. She suddenly ditches her new flock and plays the baby macaw role for me for old times sake -- adorable). This is the same sanctuary where my CAG will go when I die. I kept him because he isn't socialized (had him 22 years) and he pretty much only likes me, afraid of new situations, etc.. Whereas Sami never met a stranger and considers everything an adventure. I wish my CAG Snickers was more outgoing with other people and parrots). [Sad to mention: many greys don't 'make it' at the sanctuary and the various owners/sanctuary supporters end up giving them indoor homes. That said, about a dozen+ greys did adjust well at the sanctuary and are free to fly and flock! My dream is my Snickers one day adjusting to such freedom -- fitting in with the flock and flying free!] Also, wanted to add that giving my better-adjusted happy parrots (b&g macaw, YN amazon and 22 yo cockatiel -- companions for 20+ years!) having their freedom back was the HARDEST choice I ever made. I decided their happiness meant more than mine. An incredibly difficult choice, nonetheless. They're happier than I am with the choice. I miss them... then I remember them flying and preening each other.... well, they're happy in a flock flying.... At least I can visit whenever I want, and I do, often. Parrots NEVER forget you. I write this extra bit about a sanctuary because none of us live forever, and planning for your parrot's future is incredibly important. Parrots are rehomed at an alarming rate and making plans for mine as I get older was important to me. And to you. Because we love them so much.

I hope they can be successful and not become a 'nuisance' (would NEVER be a nuisance to me, but yannoe how it is when something becomes invasive to other organizations, farmers, other wildlife, etc.). I think it's wonderful when parrots can be free.

Mine moults out a few feathers at a time --- never all at once -- that way he's always able to fly. And yeah, I tend to collect the pretty tail feathers he drops. I was confused, you mentioned yours was clipped but you want him to fly -- did this clipping occur in a previous home? Is this a new parrot for you? Anyway, best of luck, it takes a while to grow out and replace clipped flight feathers.

I wonder how also. I just hope they have good homes. I know some view them as a status symbol, or an impulse buy, or just something unique and colourful. Don't watch youtube link if you don't want to cry -- I do not own this, only viewed it. I probably shouldn't have shared it, so for anyone like me who is super sensitive -- don't watch. But I watched it and it has never left me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17074Oe841o Mods: if youtube link sharing is not allowed -- please delete and accept my apologies.

Always fascinating how life will find a way. Sometimes cool, sometimes just dangerous for the parrots living in the wrong habitat. I always worry such parrots will become invasive and then killed by local gov't regulations. I remember watching a documentary years ago The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill. Not sure what kind of parrots -- green but not Amazons, I think. I have no idea if they still have a wild colony somewhere today. Anyway, a google search would tell more than I remember (okay, I googled -- apparently these were conures).

I haven't actually eaten lima beans. I'm okay with green peas (sweet peas) but I can't tolerate field peas or black-eyed peas (or most beans, in general). Just buy frozen, (pour out a some to thaw for your grey) then put rest of frozen green peas & limas back in the freezer immediately. My grey eats way healthier than I do most days.

I've never offered a foraging bowl with non-foods. Not to say Snickers doesn't put non-foods (usually shredded cardboard/paper --even cotton rope or fabric bits) in his dishes sometimes! I do try to offer a varied bowl through-out the day. And for his main meal, I completely cheat and add thawed frozen veggies to his fresh mix -- plus rice which he prefers over pasta (though I do toss in some pasta in a few times a week with mixed results). He always has a bowl of Zupreem pellets available in his other dish (which he likes okay) and I offer a tablespoon of seed a few times a week (so thankful he's not a seed junkie!!!) His fresh veg/fruit bowl (incl some frozen veg) I feel needs to be removed within 4 hours or so (sometimes sooner). Thankfully he's usually eaten 50 - 75% of it by then. Don't want him to get sick eating food that sat out too long. For treats, he's fairly happy with Cheerios, peanuts, raisins and unsweetened banana chips. I just try to keep something interesting in his dish through-out the day (hence treats). I also share my meals when they appropriate for him (not pizza, sorry Snickers!)

My grey has to be part of the family -- he considers himself human. Well, okay, he's a somewhat spoiled entitled human, but still.... 🥺 Snickers takes the treats, attentions and toys as mere perks of being part of a human flock.

2+ years for me, so still a newbie. I should post more, it's says I am just hatched -- I need to fledge! lol

I will add, I can't see any dairy products as being a natural part of a parrot's diet. (Or a human's diet after weaning). Not to say parrots don't enjoy treats as we humans do. Like, um, french fries. Obviously not a natural source of food for a parrot but loved nonetheless as a rare "treat." I also understand they cannot tolerate/digest salt on the level human's can -- so I take salt also into consideration when offering treats.

This is why I wondered if Snickers might consider someone familiar "safe" if I was out of the picture. "Better the devil you know" sort of logic. I have mis-read Snickers (esp in beginning) and a few dear people got severe bites. Not nips. Missing chunks of flesh. Snickers bites with 100% of his beak strength. (My macaw never bit with more than 5% of her strength -- different parrots altogether -- macaw socialized and CAG Snickers traumatized from stuff from before I met him). I am Snickers 3rd home (I think) and he was originally considered unadoptable by the breeder he had been surrendered to. He took to me instantly -- been this way for 22 years. Not sure of his exact age. But want him to be happy long after I am gone. (I'd share his adoption story I wrote but too many F-bombs due to other people in story - sorry). I just want him to have a wonderful life. Maybe I'll live to be old and outlive him (my hope) but if not, I want whoever adopts him (or the most likely sanctuary/refuge plan) to have bird lovers who 'get' him -- and understand and make allowances for his early bad beginning. Just want him happy even if I am not there anymore.

I've spent years finding ways to offer non-cheese foods. Perhaps the Bird Talk editor was feeding straight whole cheddar cubes in large quantities. lol Just made me be careful; but perhaps a liquid cheese sauce would be fine.