zandische

I read this book in a couple of days and I cried too. It was amazing to see how much love and respect Alex & Dr. Pepperberg had for each other. To know for certain just how smart these guys are is an amazing thing for Mankind to discover in the name of science. But to realize that as smart as they are they're still content to hang around with us even through the tough times - well, that's a lesson humans EVERYWHERE could benefit from!

Athena shortened her name to "T-bird." Not sure HOW she came up with that combination!

I thought this would be a fun topic for everyone to talk about all the things that make you love your grey What I love most about my grey: - Her feet. I love how she'll lift her foot for me and the soft little pads wrap around my fingers and hold on just like little fingers. She always seems so dainty when she steps up! - Kisses. I love how she gives her own kisses by pushing her beak gently against my cheek, chin, lips or nose. - Smell and snuggles. I love to turn my face against her breast when she's on my shoulder and breathe in her birdy smell. I also love a soft, warm bird body against my cheek! - Personality. I love how she's always willing to give someone or something a chance, even when she doesn't like it.

Athena was originally "Hathor" when we got her. The breeder had named all the babies in the clutch after Egyptian gods, but the cow goddess just didn't seem to fit my girl. I've always liked Egyptian and Greek mythology and since Athena was well-known for her wisdom and intelligence as well as her independence and strong spirit, I thought it a fitting name for my very strong-willed and curious parrot. She has since given herself the nickname of T-bird, which is a combination of the nicknames T-rex and Theena-bird, I think.

Welcome back, judy! I'm glad your babies were happy to come home. They remember more than you think And what a fun trip you had!

I just came across this very interesting discussion. I've actually been working on an article about the parrot-human relationship over the last week and this speaks to some of the points I'm writing about. Animalspirit wrote: Are we trying to humanize our parrots? Most certainly. Humans are definitely creatures who want to cuddle, and for us, cuddling, snuggling and physical touch are all signs of love and affection. Humans are and always have been driven to seek out love and affection. (Worldly arguments aside!) Therefore, it's not difficult to see why we not only identify with an intelligent species such as a parrot, but also seek to to try to establish the same kinds of bonds with him that we expect from each other. It's a classic situation of humans expecting human traits from the parrot. But is the expectation wrong? For the purist, perhaps, but the purist is someone who does not interact with parrots except to watch them in the wild, because how could a purist accept anything else than a true, natural existence for a parrot? Since we parrot owners are obviously not purists, we have to admit that at some level we have somewhat of a selfish desire to be around our parrot friends. We want certain things from the relationship, which is the whole reason we pursue it in the first place - love, attention, affection, devotion - and we approach attaining these things through the ways that we believe they can be satisfied - hugging, cuddling, kissing etc. In observing the behavior of multiple parrots together at one time, I've found they definitely desire physical contact, even from non-mates. So it would seem that we both share this desire for affection through physical contact. And parrots are really are no different than we are in regard to how they apply their expectations to us - they expect parrot traits from us and even demand them from time to time. These differences are very much like the "cultural differences" between people from two very different countries. We humans have a saying, "Let's just accept each other for who we are." If we apply that to interspecies relationships, then not only do we need to accept, provide for and try to understand parrots for who they are, but we need to accept the things about ourselves that drive us to interact with them. Keeping these things in mind, I think the real question that needs to be asked is whether or not the parrot owner truly desires physical and emotional affection with a parrot in order to fufill the parrot's needs and if so, is that person actively attempting to understand what those needs are? We know that Greys mate for life and it makes sense that they would seek the greatest personal comfort from their mate. Humans are often very similar in our pair bonds. But it has also been shown that wild greys live in very large flocks which consist of many smaller groups of related families. It's not unusual to find a mated pair living with both sets of parents, as well as their offspring and other related parrots. And we know from numerous studies that parrots thrive in a social situations where they are allowed to form many different types of relationships. The problem is that today's modern human is not very focused on living within a gigantic family structure and has become somewhat socially isolated, often pairing off and/or living removed from the main household of parents, siblings, grandparents and various other family members. The human is capbable of self-sustaining living, whereas the parrot depends on the entire cohesion of the flock for his survival. When a baby parrot comes to one of these new homes he's in an alien world in which he is often expected to fill a human role without regard for how he feels about it. We see our needs being fufilled - we mistake them for our sweet "feathered children" - but we very rarely appreciate the scope of the relationship we're starting and what it means for the parrot. Because Grey parrots are not born with many of the skills that come instinctively to other species, they look to their human counterpart for the learning and instruction they need to survive. But we attempt to teach them what we know, which is the way we would teach our own children, and through this instruction they often learn to be more human than parrot, are pressed into performing human functions like cuddling for the sake of pleasing the human, and often have difficulty finding a definitive role in their limited flock because the humans enforce a human heirachy upon them while their natural inclination is something entirely different. It only takes a little common sense to realize this lack of attention to the Grey's needs could lead them to unhappy lives despite all the things the human thinks he is doing to make the Grey happy. So what kind of relationship do we really want with a parrot and how can we make a captive parrot happy? Well, it's my personal belief that parrots and humans bond so tightly to one another because we are both highly empathetic creatures, and that at least for humans, the great emotional satisfaction and joy we derive from sharing such a bond is the reason we seek it out. I also believe this is true for the parrot as well, but unlike us, the pet parrot doesn't usually get to choose this bond and is often required to satisfy his entire emotional requirements of flock life with just one person. The parrot essentially begins its life with humans in a state of subservience and that's really where I think the human-parrot relationship breaks down. Humans need to actively work to support the parrot's needs in order to create a happy relationship for both parties. It definitely behooves the parrot (and particularly Grey Parrot) owner to research and observe these creatures as thoroughly as possible so as to understand how to teach them and interact with them in a way that also provides a way to fufill their needs. Now, speaking from personal experience, my Grey has always wanted to snuggle. That is literally how we first met - she leaped into my arms and crawled up under my chin to snuggle. I can actually feel her happiness when she has physical contact with me and it's rare that when we're together she isn't on me or at least very close by. She's fully flighted and allowed to go where she pleases, and she almost always chooses to follow me whenever I leave a room. She has never climbed under a blanket or snuggled into my arms like I'd expect from a human baby/child, but she will often demand my physical touch on her - through hand play, kisses, head scratches, beak scratches, belly rubs, wing rubs and tail and breast preening. These are things I allow her to choose on her own and if she doesn't want them, I back off, so I think it's a good idea to "listen" to what your Grey wants and offer her the same courtesy and respect you'd offer to other people. Domyoburk - my Grey and I play a game called "the Bird Body." She absolutely loves this game. I will recite all the major parts of her body in a high-pitched, excited voice and touch those parts as I'm saying them. So it goes like this...I'll tug lightly on her tail and say "I've got a birdie tail!" and then scritch her wings and say, "I've got some birdie wings!" and move on to the back, neck, head, beak, breast and underwings. At the very end, I put my hands lightly around her whole body and say, "I've got your bird body!" Not only has this taught her that she can trust my touch to be gentle, caring and playful, but it's direct and affectionate interaction between us that is entirely focused on her. I can tell she likes this interaction because if I stop, she come rushing over, grabs my finger and tugs on it until I play with her some more. I don't get anything out of it other than the sheer joy of seeing my bird having a good time

Has anyone tried the model-rival training method developed by Dr. Pepperberg? I have been thinking a lot about doing this and now that my parrot is coming up on 2 years old, I figure she is about ready to start learning to associate words with meaning. She already does to some extent, but I am thinking there are a lot more doors to help her open in that regard! Well, I've recently learned that Folkmanis puppets is releasing an African Grey Puppet in January and I think this is what I'm going to use as the "model/rival" in my training plan. So if anyone else is interested in this, check them out! (The release date is Jan 1, but when I spoke to them on the phone they advised the puppets may not be in stores until mid-jan.) They will retail for $24.99 USD. Also, I understand that http://www.kidsbooksandpuppets.com/ will be carrying these at a discounted rate!

Hello, I do a lot of research into holistic health methods to keep my own bird healthy and happy. One of the things I came across in my research is that PBFD is an auto-immune disease and that most birds don't actually die from the virus itself, but from complications arising from a compromised immune system. (As someone who suffers from thyroid disease I understand all too well about "secondary complications.") The virus primarily attacks young birds which makes sense, because their immune systems are still developing. One of the things that has been suggested about birds who survive is that they did so because their immune system and bodily functions were supported by an extremely healthy diet. It stands to reason that your bird has as good a chance as any (and perhaps better) if you can transform his diet into a "daily immunity defense." Some of the incredibly healthy "super foods" I've found in my research include: 1) quinoa (cooked or sprouted, my bird likes both) 2) Goji berries - huge antioxidant and immune boosters! 3) Sprouts of any kind - the nutrients in fresh sprouts are second to none. (I offer my bird quinoa and lentil sprouts on a daily basis.) 4) Red Palm Oil - available at Whole Foods, this is a big part of a Grey's natural diet and speaking from personal experience, is possibly my bird's FAVORITE food; it also has made her feathers and beak shine like nothing else. 5) Tons of fresh fruits and veggies, but most especially dark green veggies and highly nutritional fruits like pomegranates, strawberries, kiwis and oranges. Note: I give ALL of these foods to my bird on a daily basis and vary giving them with breakfast and dinner. She loves them all. Lastly, don't give up hope! I have read several articles that talk about how "sick" parrots in the wild are not ostrasized or abandoned like you see in other animal species. It may very well be that with a super boost to your bird's immune system (from all or some of the above foods) and your love and desire to help your bird survive, these things will actually help your bird fight past the diesease. Consider that bird's are very perceptive of our emotions and so just as one miserable person in a room can make everyone feel miserable, if you give your bird constant love and strong support, that may be just what he needs to beat this disease. Here is a link to a really inspiring story: http://www.geocities.com/~calliefeather/sweetpea.html

Just wanted to update you guys on this story. . I went and talked to the owner a little bit. He was not interested in giving up/selling the grey at all. What was sad is that as soon as his grey saw me she bent her head for scratches and gave me those sweet, squinty eyes that greys do when they are really happy. The owner, unfortunately, told me flat out that I was not to go near her because "greys are kind of neurotic and one person birds so she will probably bite you." Huh? Well, I told him that kind of outgoing behavior isn't what you usually see from a neurotic or one-person grey, but hey, what do I know! His grey only has one toy in the cage and one perch. We are going to send some toys to him "anonymously" and see if he gives them to her. In talking to him it didn't really seem like he was that interested in her or that he knew that much about her, which was so frustrating to see for such a sweet girl, but I tried to remain respectful and let him know that we have a grey too and really love greys and that if we can ever help him out he has just to ask. I guess the best we can hope for is that if he ever decides his bird is too much hassle, he keeps us in mind. It just breaks my heart to see these creatures treated with such ignorance and carelessness. Every time I look at my girl all I can think about is the incredible joy and love she brings to my life. I hope this guy gets the chance to see that about his grey!

12 weeks is definitely still young enough to get her to eat whatever you want her to I brought Athena home at 12 weeks and she was partially weaned, still on 1 formula feeding a day. To wean her off of formula, I started mashing up pellets into a mush and spoonfeeding her that. It wasn't long before she was eating pellets exclusively for breakfast and dinner without having to be spoonfed. She only gets about 1/4 cup of seeds to "snack on" during the day. Once I got her on the pellet mush, I started adding in other nutritional things like oats, barley, fruits, veggies etc. Most of these she would at least try because they were mixed in with the pellets, and over time she began to realize that most of them were also tasty! A couple of things I did: - vary the foods on a daily basis. Pellets were always the base for her mush, but I'd rotate the types of veggies and grains I used so she never got a chance to like or dislike one particular kind. - If she just wouldn't try something, I would eat some to show her it was ok. I'd also feed her from my mouth with certain things like carrots and apple slices where she could eat the end and not get near my saliva. This ALWAYS worked. - I almost always let her eat from my plate. We usually eat a variety of foods, so she's always trying something new. FYI, now when she sees "food" we're hard pressed to keep her from trying some. She loves to waddle across the counter to the "cooking" area by the stove to see what we're making and beg scraps. She is very easily persuaded if she knows there is food around, but it took a good 6 months or so of consistently doing the above things to convince her that different foods were ok!

Hi Guys, I just discovered this not-so-new food for Athena and she loves it. It's called Gerber "Barley" cereal for babies, likely to be found in the baby food section of your grocery. All you have to do is mix it up in water and it makes a nice mushy cereal. Since Athena loves her breakfast mushy, it mixes up quite nicely with her muesli and pellet mash that I make her. The nutrition on this stuff is very good. There is no sodium and very low sugar, plus extras like added calcium (15% of the dv in 1/4 cup - of course, I only feed Athena a couple teaspoons a day) Vitamin E, Folate, Zinc and B vitamins. Lots of great stuff here for your bird, and it tastes ok too! (If your bird doesn't like it at first, try adding a dash of cinnamon - Athena goes nuts over anything with cinnamon in it - and it makes her breath smell great too! :woohoo: ) Let me know if you try it out or are already using it!

Haha Dan, that is a good idea! :laugh:

Thank you guys for your responses! I think I will go down this weekend and talk to the owner - and maybe I'll take my girl with me. Maybe if he can see how happy she is with us it will start him asking questions about how to make his bird happier. My husband tried to talk to him and let him know we have a grey too - you know how it usually works when you meet another grey person? They can't stop talking about their bird. He said this guy was more interested in getting him to buy something than talking about the bird.

My husband recently changed office locations and his new office is next to a buisness that has a grey for display. I feel sick just even writing this... The grey stays at the store morning and night and so far, he's never observed the poor bird being let out. What he has observed is that the grey spends all day screaming, clinging to the bars of his cage and chewing on them, gets very scared and falls off his perches when people walk past the window, and appears to huddle in one corner of the cage, with his head pressed to the bars, watching the owner (whom we assume the bird is "bonded" to, if you can call his life bonded.) He says there's only a couple of toys in the cage and they appear to be "decorative." To make all of this worse, the owner didn't even know that his grey was a CONGO! I feel like we should try to do something for this bird, rescue it somehow, but I just don't know how to broach that topic to the owner. I really didn't think people were still out there with such a lack of knowledge or understanding of their bird's needs and so, how do you tell someone you can take care of their pet better than they can? I can only wonder at the fact that this little bird isn't plucked yet, and I know rehabilitating such an abused bird would be a tough road, but my heart breaks for this guy. He only wants to be loved. Athena gives us so much joy every day and it just makes it so hard to see another beautiful creature go on living in torture. We've bought the bird some toys and my husband goes to talk to it on occasion. Have any of you ever been in a situation like this? Any suggestions on how you would try to get the owner to relinquish his "decoration" so we can give it a better life?

Well said, Dan. I feel EXACTLY the same way.

I never get tired of telling the story about how Athena jumped into my arms on first sight. I didn't even want a grey! I'd never seen one in person and I thought they were too plain. I'd also read too many "horror" stories on the internet and thought a bird like a grey was just going to be too much hassle. Plus, my husband was not too keen on having a parrot so I didn't want to bring home a bird that by all accounts was going to be snippy on a good day and down right obnoxious on a bad one. Ha!! What little I knew! Well, the day we went bird shopping at the birdshow, I had every intention of getting a sun conure. But there was a booth with about ten greys crawling all over people's shoulders and it was like a moth to the flame - I just *had* to go look at those unique and regal birds. One of the breeders came up to me and started handing me baby greys. And let me tell you, none of them wanted anything to do with me! Then she brought out a smallish grey that she said they didn't want people to handle because she was still learning to perch and fly, and while she was explaining this to me, that little sweetheart flapped her wings and leaped - yes leaped! - into my arms. It was all I could do to catch her. Then she snuggled up under my chin and began to chirp as if she was the happiest bird in the world. There was pretty much no turning back at that point. I've fallen in love with this little fluffball, and if the hundreds of pictures I've taken is any indication, I think she's the most beautiful bird in the world ;-) But you could say that she was a total surprise - my girl stole my heart before I even knew it was up for grabs!

Siobha - your story is adorable and now your picture makes me want a little Oisin for my Athena! After the way she's been mooning over her magazine, I can totally see a buddy for her in the future! There's just something very satisfying in knowing that your "Best friend" also has best friends of her own. Now if only I could convince my husband... :evil:

Nychsa - she's almost a year and a half old. Still very much a baby, which is ok by me, and yet sometimes she just seems so "aware" of things going on around her. Last night was really funny too. I got the newest issue of Bird Talk and there is an article in it on the Uropygial gland with a mostly life-sized head of a grey on it. She just went nuts over that handsome devil! She was such a little baby about it that she made me hold the picture up close enough so she could "preen" him while I gave her head scratches. It was terribly cute! (And I can't read that article now without her making begging sounds to preen the photograph.) All I can say is he must be a really handsome guy, because I've never seen her do that before!

Ok guys, I really have to apologize to everyone who was watching this - I meant to post the plans/instructions much sooner than this. I've been away way too long and this place is a natural stress relief for me, so I need to get back here more often! Anyhow, I PROMISE I will get that info up for you very soon. Again, I apologize to anyone who's been waiting!

Dan, I completely agree! One time recently Athena was sitting on my shoulder during a day I had taken off. I always tell her when I head out in the morning that I am "going to work" but that day it was well past the time I should have left for the morning and she was enjoying her time on my shoulder. Abruptly, she reached down and kissed me and then asked very softly, "Go to work?" It was definitely phrased as a question and I was a little amused, so I told her, "Not today! Today I get to stay home with you!" At which point she replied, "I know! I know!" They most definitely are our children!

Nychsa, I'm glad you broached this topic. When I tell people about my grey, they always laugh a little bit and look at me like I'm one of those crazy pet owners. But it's like my husband always says - no one understands what parrots are like until they have one. I wanted a conure because I thought they were "cute" - and instead this little bundle of grey feather jumped quite literally into my arms and stole my heart. Most definitely she is my best friend and I tell her as much on a regular basis too! And yes, it's funny that you mention Bella's strong personality pulling you through. The books always say you have to watch your emotions around them, but I've always found that with Athena, it's a balance. I know when she's cranky. She knows when I'm feeling bad. We take care of each other during those times and that's really all anyone needs, isn't it?

Wow, thanks guys! And I'm glad I can inspire some of you to try this too!!! Talon, the foraging basket was the hardest part because I had to tweak it a bit. I hadn't found a tray yet when I started so I saved it for last. And I thought I was going to have to screw it down or else it would fall through if Athena actually got in it. Once I had the whole frame together, I went to Target and found something I thought would work - that's a snap-tight plastic box from the tupperware section and it's about 8x9x 1.5. Then I just measured and cut the pvc to frame it and then tweaked the sizing until I had it tight enough that the box fit snugly. It doesn't show in these pictures, but I wrapped the basket frame in vet wrap and the stickyness does an even better job of holding the basket in there. I've put at least 5 pounds in there and it didn't budge, so I think it's safe at this point =) The pink stuff is vet wrap (Vetrap, Coflex, Softlex etc are all brand names.) What you see there is 10 full yards of it and it doesn't even cover half the perches! That stuff is fairly expensive to buy in Petsmart or at the Feed Supply (mine ran roughly $3.00/roll and it took 5 rolls to cover all the horizontal surfaces; I'm wrapping the vertical supports in sisal for climbing.) so if I can recommend anything, definitely try to get it on sale or from ebay in bulk if you can! (Also the colors in the store aren't that great - when I ran out of pink the only colors they had left were dark blue, black (Athena doesn't like black), dark green, purple and red. If you order them online you can get the neons/brighter colors - definitely something I'll do next time!) But don't skimp on the wrap - build up three or four layers and it feels so nice and squishy just like a Dr. Scholl's gel shoe insert - but for birds!

<br><br>Post edited by: zandische, at: 2008/05/06 06:56