dblhelix

Hi n2fisher, As others have said this is a much debated issue that often brings about strong emotions one way or another. I salute you for asking about it so that you can at least arm yourself with information to decide what you think is best in your situation. Clipping vs Flighted both have some pros and cons. I am in general a strong supported of keeping birds fully flighted. The are many health and emotional issues related to flying for the bird that I think usually far outweigh and risks with keeping them flighted. There are numerous posts on this site covering these issues and I certainly encourage you to read them if you have not already. Remember flying is a LEARNED skill. If your bird is fully feathers but not currently a flier it may take several months to over a year for him to become flight proficient (meaning they can hover, bank, fly up, fly down and land exactly where they intend). The leaning period will be influenced by how much he practices, how determined he is and how much encouragement you provide. Make no mistake, crash landings are part of the learning process but once proficient they are very graceful. Regarding some of your specific concerns, I think a flight proficient bird will be much safer around a cat than a clipped bird. A flighted bird can actually fly away from a situation if needed while a clipped bird is grounded. No where to go. I think over time you will find the pooping is not a big deal. Flighted or not they will have perching areas (mostly defined by you) that they hang out at the most in a given area. That is where most of the poops will be (similar to now in the clipped scenario). As others have said you can have a lot of success with potty training as well with some patience and persistence. It wont be perfect, but it can have a significant impact. You pretty much learn when they have to go and some will learn to hold it and only go where you want. Others will go on command and when you know its about time you take them to a place and say “go poo” or whatever command you use and they will try! Kip is fairly well potty trained but of course as some “accidents”. Flying has the escape risk associated. However, as previously stated, this risk really exists with a clipped bird too. I think with some fairly simple best practices and awareness the risk can be greatly mitigated. Also, a flight proficient bird that gets out is arguably safer with a higher chance of being located because they know how to land and fly down. Many escaped birds fly up up up and away w/o stopping because they are scared and don’t even know how to land and/or fly back down to their owners. Again, no guarantees, everyone needs to take precaution on this issue no matter what. As a general statement, flying is what makes a bird a bird. Their entire system is geared around this. They have FEATHERS!, their muscles, brain, cardiovascular system, hollow bones, pretty much entire being is a built for this. Birds that don’t fly have more health issues associated (heart disease, muscle atrophy, menta/emotional issues etc) It is beautiful to watch them fly and as they do it you can tell they enjoy it. Again I do realize there are some cases where clipping is decided the way to go and there certainly are many happy/healthy clipped birds. But I think that flighted is the better and healthier choice in almost all situations. Keep us posted on your decision in any case. Remember, there is not really a right or wrong. You need to evaluate all the pros/cons given your situation and determine what is best for you and your bird. B)

Hi Jadewolf32 - I agree with what the others have said. Go with the bigger cage for a variety of reasons (no rust, ultimately more space/fun for bird, new, good use of investment etc). If your bird is unstable at this age and prone to falls then lowering the perches is a great practice at first. If your bird is already well balanced/coordinated then this may not be necessary. Remember that they key off you. If you are anxious, nervous or scared they will be too. If you beleive everything will be fine then chances are they will! They are actually quite hardy and with a bit of patience and encouragement can adapt to most environments. I imagine that you are a bit stressed at this time with surgery coming (I would be). So for what its worth try and keep this general rule of thumb in mind throughout your birds life. I hope the surgery goes well and am confident your baby can adjust to the new cage in the next week before your procedure. Keep us posted and all the best. B)

Hi Hrund, I agree with most of what others have said here, good advice. Also great work you are doing with your new family member. I would add that its really never "too early" to start trying to teach, condition, engage the birds but it certainly may be too early to expect them to respond as you may ultimately like. Since parrots are such long lived animals, there are some things that may take them some time to adjust to...like a new home, new owners, new sights, smells, toys, furniture etc etc. They are all individuals for sure and some may take to new things w/o any issue, but most require at least a month to stabilize in a new home with new owners before they are really ready to start showing their personality and prepared to learn about you! So, I would say its never too early, but don't set the initial expectations too high. Be calm, patient and consistent and it will reward you 1000 times over! Also I would steer away from the stick approach if you can. Just take your time as once the bird trusts you it will be much less prone to biting (though it still happens from time to time with any bird). Keep up posted.

Wow, sounds like Grey't progress You should be very proud and I am sure Baxter appreciates all you are doing. It is amazing and humbling how resilient animals can be. Certainly 12 yrs old is enough for Baxter to have an established personality, but keep in mind he/she is really just a teenager. Keep doing what you are doing. The progress you note in 1 month time is amazing. 1 month is nothing in the life span of a parrot. For them to learn a new home, new owner, new food, new surrounding etc etc. It really sounds like Baxter is really progressing quickly! In a few more months or a year from now I bet he will be very established and really letting his personality shine. Keep up the work with toy introduction etc, he'll get into it and start having fun! Regarding flight, it sounds like Baxter will take to this well. If you are correct and he never really was allowed to fly then it sounds like his determination is very high since you describe him already now attempting flapping and short flights. Remeber, flying is a learned skill for birds and something they must regularly do to be proficient at. As others have suggested try to minimize potential for injury while he learns/practices but make no mistake...crash landings are part of learning. Kip went through this too as a youngster (from 6 to 18 months) as she was not allowed to fully fledge and was then clipped when we got her. However, as her flights grew in and she practiced with much encouragement from us...she is now a very proficient flier and you can tell she loves it. I personally love watching them in flight. So amazing, so graceful (when they are good at it) and you can just tell they love it and are meant to do it B) Keep up the good work and keep us posted!!

Thanks for the feedback. Its all the members here that make it grey't!

I think the issue is that many clipped birds do not have proficient flight skills (sounds like yours does). As such, if an unskilled flier gets out, clipped or not they are usually flying out of fear. An unskilled flier is more likely to continue flying up up and away simply out of fear and adrenaline whereas a skilled flier that can land where they want, fly down etc is more likely to land somewhere and even be able to fly back. In either case, clipped or not, skilled flier or not there is no guarantee. If a bird gets out and is spooked it could be impossible to retrieve them. But make no mistake, most clipped birds can and do fly away when spooked much to the owners disbelief. The benefits of allowing a bird to develop flight skills and the impact this has on their neurological development, balance, emotional status etc is very clear. In addition allowing a bird to fly throughout its life keeps it healthier as it continues to exercise its body, muscles, cardiovascular system etc in the manner intended. Certainly there are many happy healthy birds that have never been allowed to execute their intended gift of flight, but if you took 10 birds allowed to fully fledge compared to 10 birds that were not allowed there would be an overall profound difference in them. To keep the bird clipped or not is a personal choice that each owner must make in consideration of their living circumstances etc. There is no right or wrong as their are pros and cons to both approaches. However the belief that keeping a bird clipped is "safer" for the bird is a false belief. Proficient fliers do not fly into windows, pots of boiling water etc often if ever. However this is rather likely in the case of a bird that has never been allowed to develop flight skills or is clipped in a manner that does not allow them to control their bodies. If my body did not function as intended and I did not understand why I would be prone to emotional problems, plucking and other health issues that have been shown related to clipped/unflighted birds.

Kip is not overly afraid of much. We make a point to walk right by her cage when coming home with grocery bags, new items etc. She tolerates new things quite well. New toys etc go right into the cage and she is all over them with glee. She occassionally gets a bit spooked by black colored items that are low to the ground and she does not know. Examples would be a black basket we have and smaller type trash can. Not really sure why that is, but even with that she adjusts pretty quick. If she does show fear to something we back off, tell her its OK and continue to introduce. We do not back down though even if it takes a day or two (rarely). We tell her "No wussy birds! You are OK" and she does pretty darn well! If something spooks her she follows up with a series of "You're OK. Its OK. Good Girl" to console herself B)

Its really hard to make out cage detail from the photo. I do not see anywhere indicating "Avain Adventures" from the picture and cannot see the food bowls, doors, hinge mechanisms, locking mechanisms, top etc etc or get a good feel for the size. It could be an Avian Adventures cage (I have one) but I cannot say for sure. The construction at the top in the picture is not the same as the top of my cage, but of course this is not conclusive due to different models, years of production etc. I will say that overall I am happy with Avain Adventures product. Fairly well built and the door locking mechanisms/access to multiple food bowls is well designed. They are on the more pricey side (my Mediana playtop was just under $500 US shipped) but if you look at that over 10-20 years or more its really not much of an investment. Personally I would buy new and not worry about saving a few hundred bucks unless you know what you are getting and are sure of the condition. Of course we all have different situations, resources etc. Best of luck on your decision...keep us posted!

Welcome! Great pics, thanks for sharing!!

Chances are very good its healthy, but quarantine and a vet check would be in order if you keep it. We have some quarantine guidelines on the site, I believe its recommended at 45 days (seems long but goes fast) since most illness would present by then. I would not worry too much about the introduction (again chances a very low the bird is ill), but I would still keep them separate for now.

One thing for sure, its a very pretty parrot. I am not certain of the type but guess its a conure of some sort. Others here may know. I will research a bit and let you know what I find. Clearly someone's pet. since you do not know this bird keep it in a separate room from your grey (eg quarantine) as you do not know its health history at this point. Almost certainly a Nanday... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanday_Conure<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/08/16 04:39

Welcome!! B)

Nice! Kip usually gets 1 graper per day...she loves them too!!

Congrats Siobhan!!

I am sure LovemyGreys will provide a comprehensive list. Just quickly, fresh broccoli and kale are great greens to offer. Snap peas and green beans are healthy. Fresh corn on the cob is a great treat. Dried figs are great sources of calcium as are almonds. Fresh carrots are healthy too. If you can get good fresh berries (black berries, blue berries, strawberries etc) they are healthy treats as well as grapes but watch out for the mess and dont over do it on the berry volume!

CAG weight can vary pretty significantly based on the birds body/bone structure and geographic part of Africa their ancstors came from just like humans and other animals of the same species cover a pretty wide range of "normal" weights. Healthy mature CAGs generally range from 350g or below on the smaller size on up to 650g+ depending. This below link I have posted several times before and I still think its very informative: http://www.africanature.com/Project%20Africa/wildgreys.htm<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/08/14 05:20

Grit is not needed at all to keep a healthy Budgie and some data shows its actually dangerous. My little Lucky lived almost 14 years on a balanced diet of a seed mix and daily fresh veggies (lettuce, broccoli, grapes and other seasonal fresh goodies). Budgies are amazing little parrots. Lucky had a 50+ word vocab, flew to me on command and was a great companion. Never underestimate the mighty little budgie and enjoy!

Greetings Donste2287, So sorry to hear of these challenges you and Fluffy are having. Unfortunately the reality is that medicine (vetrinary and human for that matter) is often not a black and white science. Many things are shades of "grey" like our precious little birds and it can be a process of elimination to try and diagnos/treat illnesses. I send you all my thoughts and well wishes. Keep doing what you are doing w/in your means to support Fluffy so you can be at peace with your actions and know that fluffy appreciates all your efforts. Keeps us posted and I am hoping for the best.

Its generally considered a good idea. It does not cost all that much (usually from $30-$100 US) and can be valuable information to have in the event medical attention is ever needed.

Super cute! Do you know if male or female?

Congrats!!! :laugh: :lol: :silly: B)

As often is the mantra...all things in moderation. If you bird is on a good balanced diet a little piece of a fortune cookie is just fine and they will enjoy it. But remember, they are small animals so a little goes a long way. We have chinese food once or twice a month and when we do I always give Kip a little corner chunk of the cruchy shell. She loves it, but its a small little treat.

Whats the verdict???

As far as I can tell the Hoya are classified as non-toxic though some people may develop a rash from the milky sap. Hummingbirds drink the flower nectar, there are reports of peoples birds and cats eathing the leaves w/o ill effect. Do a google search Hoya and you can read up quite a bit on this.

Many dunk, perfectly normal. Kip likes to make soup daily. She's a real chef, never know what mix if different things she may choose to dunk/eat and just leave to soak in the water bowl!