dblhelix

All has been fine since the fumigation. As described, we took some extra efforts and additional days to ventilate AFTER the home was cleared for re-entry according to OSHA and other standards, erring on the conservative side. The experience was a bit nerve wracking since Vikane gas is odorless/colorless etc. They do add a separate chemical (like tear gas) to the Vikane as an agent that should easily be detected by us (cause discomfort) that supposedly dissipates at the same rate as the Vikane. Still, I had fears some gas could remain trapped in wall spaces or cupboards that could cause a problem...fortunately we not had any issues. BTW - my wife was several months pregnant at the time as well and we now also have a healthy/happy infant (7 weeks old)! I do recommend following a program of additional ventilation over and above what the fumigation company will do and after the Vikane gas is confirmed below the Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL). Clearly the Vikane/fumigation is most effective to erradicate the termites over other options. Hope that helps.

Sounds like grey't news about Aoodi. Hope things continue progressing in a positive direction. Do you have more details to share about the initial problem? I see mention of an abscess, swelling in crop perhaps? What was the final root cause identified as? Was it something "SHE" ate that clogged her crop or caused an irritation? Besides acute related treatments (antibiotic etc) are there any specific changes you must make going forward in diet or anthing like this? Thanks for sharing, best wishes to you and Aoodi (or a new name if you decide to change it)!!

Thanks all! Well here's the scoop...after studying this, reading many articles, webpages, etc etc I decided that waiting 72 hrs and some change AFTER the home was cleared according to OSHA standards would be about as safe as I could reasonably get. Again, during those 72 hrs we really ventilated the home, running a whole house fan the entire time (1600 cfm), had multiple windows open and other fans blowing in rooms. So this morning I somewhat anxiously brought Kip to the house. Its now been more than 10 hrs and she is doing fine. Singing, grooming, chatting, snoozing on one foot, climbing around, asking to come out, eating all kinds of stuff... I have her in her smaller travel cage not too far from a cracked window. She will stay there a few days as we will run our whole house fan nonstop for a week more, just to be 100% sure there is a constant stream of fresh air. I have never gone through the tenting/fumigation process previously, its a bit of a PIA but in the end the only way to ensure all the termites and other critters you may have are 100% DEAD. Will post up more if I have other related observations to share over the next few days...

Thanks for the response lovethatgrey. Its has now been more than 48 hrs since the home was cleared and safe for reentry. During that extra 48 hrs we have been running a whole house fan etc as described. So, we effectively have waited more than 2 full days since it was cleared and been running significant fans etc. I realize no one can provide a guarantee, but it seems to me it "should" be safe given the extra margin of time we have already given...that said, I like to err on the side of caution but we cant stay out forever!! I am really interested if anyone here has had their home fumigated and if so what was their experience, how long did you wait before moving in etc? Thanks.

Hi all, I am curious on the opinion/experience of forum members regarding home fumigation and a safe re-entry of the home for our birds. This week we had our home tented and fumigated for termites with Vikane gas. The tent went up on Monday morning, came down on Tues afternoon and they began airing the place. On Wed at 10:30 AM it cleared for reentry (OSHA requires a measurement of <4 parts per million). I did not ask to see calibration records etc of their measuring device but I did go to the house, open many windows and turn on our whole house fan in addition to other local fans in rooms. We let all fans run now since Wed (its now Friday evening) and I am debating if its safe to bring our little grey girl back to the house...Its basically now been 48+ hours of deliberate aerating since the home was cleared for re-entry. Our whole house fan changes the entire air volume in the home about every 20 mins...I think it "should" be safe to return Kip to the house... However, the gas man had to come out to turn the gas to the home back on. He did not know how long its been since the tent was removed but he saw Kips cage and said "you have a bird huh? I would wait several days before moving in, I moved back after fumigation and my birds died". I was not there (wife was) to query him more about his experience, but this kinda freaked me out. Does anyone here have experience with fumigation and moving back in with your bird you can share?

Most studies I have looked at show that vitamins (in addition to other supplements, drugs etc) have a MUCH longer shelf life than posted by the manufacturer. Depending on how you store them the pellets can be good for many months beyond the stated expiration date. I store mine in a sealed container in the fridge and may freeze some for really long term storage. I have gone well beyond 6 mo's and feel perfectly fine doing so. Of course Harrison's will say pitch them sooner rather than later, they want to sell you more pellets! As suggested, if they look or smell funny that would indicate degradation. If they look/smell "normal" to you they are probably still just fine.

The term Congo Grey is not a scientific classification. It is reference that came about over the years regarding the country, or geographical location the birds came from (were trapped in). Its becoming a less and less popular reference as the scientific/avian communities have better communication and harmonized approach. Some older school breeders and mis-informed owners may still use the term Congo Grey to describe the type of bird. Historically they were believed to be larger in size, although that is really muddied too as over time import laws prevented birds coming to US from some African countries and trappers lied about where the actual birds came from. This article speaks to this some: http://www.africangreys.com/articles/other/variations.htm

It may be very difficult to find many good scientific papers on these topics. Its just not likely to be something really well studied, funded etc. Not much demand. I am sure there are some and it certainly is an interesting topic to many of us! My thoughts are that of course wild birds (as all animals) get exposed to toxic substances and many must suffer the consequences (eg die). Much of their protection likely comes through the learned route. They are long lived animals and as such have a great capacity to learn through life experiences and the habits/experiences of others. It also seems possible that the natural habitat, foods, environment etc may provide some additional protection that our "pets" would not benefit from (living in flocks with mature birds that have managed to survive is probably a huge benefit). On the other hand, our pets are provided protection from predators and other dangerous things that wild animals are not...interesting post. B)<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2010/02/10 21:26

Nice! Mine does that as well on similar set up. After a few years of this fun, one day she was up there and the whole thing suddenly fell to the floor. Fortunately she is a good flier and was able to get airborne before hitting the ground (but did fall a few feet first). Turns out all the spinning etc over the years managed to back out the ceiling anchor. It was not something I regularly checked...you may want to consider checking the integrity of the set up now and then. I do now. B)

No substitute for going to the vet. You should go ASAP. However, if the skin was never broken an infection is not very likely. Your description sounds much like a fairly normal bruise progression...swelling, subsiding leaving greenish/blue bruise from the blood/fluids that were beneath the skin. The discoloration can spread fairly far from the acute injury site as the fluids are absorbed by nearby tissue. Again, I would go see a vet for peace of mind and just in case, but think the chances are pretty good the discoloration will go away over the next 1-2 weeks. Wishing you and your Fid all the best. Keep us posted.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2010/01/16 03:23

Kip also prefers cold water baths. We take her in the shower with us often (me in morning, wife in evening) where she sings etc and has fun in the steam rising. Sometimes we get her under the actual shower stream but she does not like it all that much. She prefers to bathe in her water bowl or other bowls we offer...

Nice going Judygram! Keep em comin!!!

My condolences for your loss. Sending all the positive energy and good thoughts your way during this difficult time.

Dan - You are the man! Seriously, congratulations. Well deserved. Your contributions, commitment and genuine caring for this site and its members truly are what makes this such a special place. Best, Mark

Tabby tail - consider allowing Dudley to continue learning to fly. flight is in fact a learned skill in birds. there is much data indicating if they are allowed to become fully flight proficient (hover, bank, fly up, fly down and land exactly where they intend) this is much better for their health even if you then decide to clip again. A bird that was not fully fledged and never flight proficient may take many months or even years to gain that. However, it sounds like Dudley is actually taking to it well as you describe flying into things etc. The first few days/weeks can be trying for the owner and bird as they appear out of control. there is a risk they could injure themselves and you need to be aware of this, but most will get the hang of it pretty quick depending on age, determination and general coordinatio of the bird. We let Kips flights grow out after first molt and really encouraged her to fly. We praised each step, tried to minimize her fear and downplay crash landings etc. Now she is fully flight proficient and it is a joy to see. She flys to us on comman (usually!) and it is so beautiful to see her hover and be proud of her skills! As you can see, at minimum I support allowing your bird the opportunity to gain full flight. There are many other posts on this forum covering this topic, but I encourage you to seriously consider investing in this for both Dudley and you. B) B)

GREAT NEWS!! Of course Ckikki remembers you! but being out in the "wild" for 72 hrs must have been incredibly scary and stressful for Chikki. Definitely give Chikki a few days to settle down. Its unlikely he picked up anything for other animals while being out, but a vet check is probably a good idea. You might consider waiting a few days just to let him settle a bit more, not sure if Chikki has been to vets and is comfortable with that or if that would stress him out even more.

Glad to hear this seems to have turned out well. I agree, a pic posted of the hooks resulting in this issue would be a great benefit to the forum community. Keep us posted on Indy's recovery!

Here is some more general info you may find helpful: http://www.greyforums.net/faqs/minimum-cage-requirements.html

Great suggestions included here. Ants will find a way to get into the house from time to time regardless of our best efforts to ward them off. A good way to prevent them from invading the bird cage is to put a dab of vasoline just above the cage touch points with the floor. The ants cannot cross that gel barrier, works great to line areas/cords hanging hummingbird feeders as well to keep the ants from the sweet sugar water... B)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JUDY!!! :P

Primary flight feathers generally molt out yearly. This can vary by several months on the plus or minus side, but it is a pretty long period. When they do grow back be prepared for "clumsy" flying attemtps, banging into walls, crash landings etc during a learning period. This can be scary to the owner and you do need to be aware of this reality to try and provide an environment conducive to learning with minimal opportunities for injury. I suspect from your statements that Gizmo never did learn full flight proficiency as you mention he was still having crashes. Flying is a learned skill and some birds will take to it better than others. It could take many months of practicing depending on the birds determination, your encouragement etc. If you are committed you should be fine Regarding the feather that broke/pulled out...it should grow back, probably along the same time line (eg 12 months).

Sounds pretty normal, post a pic if you want us to have a look. Kip's beak "sheds" from time to time and/or flakes. When she was about 1.5 yrs old the upper curved part of her beak turned very light/bone colored (almost like a Timneh beak) and then a large part ended up flaking off over the course of a few weeks. As Judygram indicated, the beaks are constantly growing so what you describe likey is completely normal. <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2009/02/01 03:41

Dan - Thanks for sharing this story. I am so glad to read that it really appears all is going strong in the recovery direction! As you describe, the reaction is more or less consistent with what animals go through. Obviously the exact time duration of different stages will vary from individual to individual and no doubt on the severity of the incident. I think Greys will be even more cautious than say their South American counter part and that is of course well known. If we look at some of the blatant outward differences between the animals this is consistent. Lets face it, if you are bright green, red, yellow, blue etc that screems extrovert. If you are Grey, well you are probably trying to hide! Okay I got off an a tangent there... Again, keep the updates coming. Thanks for sharing and allowing others to learn from your experiences and thank goodness it look like all will fully recover from this scary incident.

WELCOME!! B)

If your bird is learning to fly then some crash landings and uncontrolled flight into things is normal. Flight is a learned skill and it takes most birds months of regular flying if not longer of to really get it down. They have to develop motor skills, muscle, balance etc etc. The time depends a lot on the age at which they learn as well (eg during the normal fledging stage or after). Bottom line, once the are flight proficient they are very graceful and flying into things, crash landings becomes very rare. Fight proficient means they can hover, bank, fly up, fly down and land exactly where they intend to.