carlylu

Thanks for sharing that story. I'm SO glad it had a happy ending. I found my pet pigeon attacked and killed by a hawk a couple of years ago, so I know exactly how you felt. You must have been beside yourself with joy when you were reunited. We're thinking someone must have Tonka. Even that is discouraging though because she has posters everywhere, and has been all over talking to people. If someone decided to keep her that would be really unfortunate.

I just posted a lost notice for a friend whose Grey has been missing for 2 weeks, not even a sighting. (Accidental fly off.) If anyone has had a Grey lost for a week or more, and recovered it, she could sure used some inspirational stories. She has done just about everything imaginable, now it's just continue to look and wait... If you've lost and recovered your Grey after a long wait, or know of someone who has, and can share the story about how/where it was found, please post. thanks a bunch! Raz

I'm posting this for a friend. Congo African Grey, "Tonka" Lost July 2, 2007 Hammonton, NJ (southern NJ, near Atlantic City) Reward offered. Any information or sightings, please call Terese at 609-270-7750. This has been cross-posted to 911ParrotAlert and PetFinders.

dblhelix wrote: I think for many of us who have strong relationships with our animals it's equivalent to kidnapping. Unfortuately I think the law still treats theft of animals just like property. I hope the thief gets bit like hell too -- by all 14 of them -- anytime he comes near. raz

A bird keeper from the San Diego zoo has had seven pairs of African Greys stolen from his home aviary. Link to article Everyone in So. Calif, Arizona, Nevada should probably be on the lookout, though I bet this jerk has it in mind to set up his own breeding operation. Makes you want to scream doesn't it? raz

Tari wrote: You can train too many things at once (particularly if the behaviors overlap a bit) but doing two things is fine. I think it's good to build up a little repertoire of tricks/behaviors so once they are in the lineup you can vary the training session a bit. Doing ONLY recall can get a little monotonous after awhile. raz

Clipped or fully flighted, Greys can and do escape, and sometimes they can fly much further than we realize. All it takes is a bit of wind or adrenaline. Here is a link to step-by-step instructions and tips for recall training your parrot -- the most effective way to increase the odds of getting him back home safely. It's all done using positive reinforcement methods, and is also a great way to interact and bond with your bird, as well as get him some needed exercise. http://www.likambo.com/flyblog/ This can be done with flighted or clipped birds. The steps given are what I did with my Grey between 1-2 years old, after she had a very severe baby clip that was growing out, while I was recall training her for outdoor flight. (Indoors is the crucial Step #1 for that; do not try outdoors without consulting an experienced trainer for instruction.) These are the same methods used by zoo and show trainers as well, and the file has been read and edited by some I know to make sure I was presenting the material accurately for pet owners. Have fun with it and let's have safe birdies! raz<br><br>Post edited by: carlylu, at: 2008/06/19 04:54

Great news! (It didn't come up on the board until after I posted mine -- things seem to be popping up out of order today) Here's the link to info on recall training. You're right, it's ALL about repetition, conditioning, and reinforcement. With parrots you are also going against their natural genetic instincts (still very strong because they are not many generations from their wild cousins) which tell them to fly AWAY from dangerous creatures like humans. But these guys are smart, and why should dogs outperform us?? http://www.likambo.com/recall/ raz

That is great that he's still nearby. He should be ready for some of his favorite treats I bet! I just want to add, clipped or not, parrots can fly very well when they have a little adrenaline or wind helping them out. The only really reliable way to keep your bird safe from an accidental escape is to train it to come when called. It is an easy skill to teach, it just requires daily practice. But what better thing to do than to have something fun to do with your bird where he can earn treats? If anyone has questions about how to teach this, I will post a link to some instructions in the Training section. I hope we hear good news soon! raz

judygram wrote: GReat. You might want to use something like clicker training to get her used to the harness (if she has any resistance). It may take a little time, but it will make these excursions much easier in the long run. Are you doing recall training with her indoors now? (Sorry if I might have asked this before and forgot...) raz

dblhelix wrote: That's the nice thing about where we were. It's endless open rolling hills with great visibility and few raptors. We saw two in 4 days (golden eagles) and they were very far away. Only the woman who lived there could even ID them, they were such tiny specs. But you're right, you have to be aware of the environment you fly in for sure. raz

Talon wrote: Some birds do not like the Aviator. It's the loop you have to put over their head. The Feather Tether design has a strap that buckles around, which is easier with some birds. But it also is a little more bulky and complicated to put on. Shanlung has instructions on his site for making a harness also. Carly uses one that me and my bf designed and made. I can post what that looks like if anyone is interested. It is similar to the Feather Tether design, but without the buckles; it uses a system of velcro straps. raz

Thanks everyone. I must say, we BOTH had a blast. It's not quite so scary when you've been training for it for almost a year. But it still takes your breath away. judygram wrote: That's great! Have you put it on your bird yet? That sometimes take a bit of training and patience, depending on the bird. Also is he/she fully flighted? Good luck! It's fun to get outside with these guys. Raz<br><br>Post edited by: carlylu, at: 2007/06/14 02:34

And here's the little girl in the big skies. I was so proud of her -- she learned how to glide for the first time and her recall was excellent.

Carly and I went on a very unusual vacation a couple weeks ago. We went to far northeastern Wyoming to meet up with friends who have trained their birds for outdoor flight. There were a total of 9 humans and 16 parrots, including Red-fronted Macaws, several different species of Cockatoos, two Eclectus, and ONE GREY! It was a beautiful setting. One day was very very windy, so we practiced doing flying recalls on her harness. But when the weather was nice Carly got to really stretch her wings. These are the biggest flights she's had since graduating from indoors to outdoors last month, and she is doing really well. (In case you can't keep track of all the different birds here, Carly is a 2 1/2 year old who was severely clipped as a baby. We've been doing flight and recall training indoors for about the past year.) Here are some pictures from the trip: The group http://www.flyweek.org/2007/index.html Carly's flights http://www.flyweek.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=33 And here's a preview for fun! (practicing in the wind on her harness) Raz Information on training: http://likambo.com/flyblog Do NOT do this without a solid plan and experienced assistance. <br><br>Post edited by: carlylu, at: 2008/05/23 22:04

I don't disagree that sometimes circumstances warrant clipping. However, much of what is brought up as the rationale for clipping is simply untrue. It is not a huge safety benefit (birds can and do still get loose, and end up on the ground, far away, or dead) and the spurious arguments about windows, ceiling fans, etc. are simply not issues for people with flighted birds who take the time to work with them. Are they not worth that little extra bit of our time, for what they provide to us, in exchange for being kept in captivity in something so far removed from their natural habitat that we can scarcely comprehend it? I realize I feel strongly about this, but I think it is selfish to not even consider the alternatives. Greys especially are so affected mentally and psychologically by clipping. A breeder I know describes clipped and unclipped Greys as being almost like "a different species." It should just not be assumed that this is the right thing to do just because it has been the common thing to do for many years. There are alternatives, and safety indoors or out does not have to be compromised. raz raz

Granpooba wrote: These things are also EASILY trainable. Clipping is a convenience for humans, not something that's done for the bird's benefit. While Carly has been learning to fly she has had to learn about walls, windows, sliding glass doors, ceiling fans etc. It can be done in a very methodical, sensible way. Parrots are VERY intellegent animals. The only excuse for these things being lethal dangers to them is total lack of exposure or training. Even my pigeon, a species not known for exceptional intellegence, was able to learn and navigate the household environment. I don't want to sound harsh, but all it takes is a little time and training to make these things completely non-issues. For me, it's worth it to spend that kind of time with my bird rather than to use safety as an excuse to take the easy (and drastic) way out. raz

MARIR wrote: The same thing happens with clipped birds all the time, the only difference is that they have an even greater chance of dying outside because they are totally vulnerable to cats, dog and other ground predators. I know of several cases personally where this has happened, and a couple fortunate ones in which the bird was finally found (up to a mile away, and yes, clipped.) The only way to really be safe is to TRAIN your bird to come to you when called. Why is this such a difficult idea to get across? Don't people's dogs come when called? Even my cats come when they are outdoors and I call them. Why? Because they know they get a treat. Same with birds. It frustrates me because people are often so quick to take the MOST drastic measure -- clipping -- to keep a bird "safe" (even though it is no guarantee) but won't spend the time to take the most effective measure, training. Not only does it help ensure you can one day retrieve your bird if needed, it is also a wonderful way to have fun with your bird, strengthen the bond between you, and help prevent behavioral problems (by giving the bird something challenging mentally and physically to do.) raz raz

MARIR wrote: Yes, it happens all the time. When mine was clipped she could fly quite a long distance, very fast, with no ability to turn or land. That's why it is SO important to train birds for recall, whether they are clipped or not. Clipping is no insurance that your bird will not escape, and with the total lack of flight skills that usually involves it can be a recipe for disaster. Typically clipped birds can't get much altitude, but it depends a lot on the severity of the clip, wind, terrain, etc. raz

Moddy wrote: That's what harnesses and training are for. Taking a clipped bird outside without either is one of the most common ways they are lost. Being confident and having bad behavior are completely different things. Bad behavior is just as likely to happen (perhaps more likely) with a clipped bird who gets less exercise and enrichment from flying. The key to avoiding bad behavior is enrichment and training. The first thing my grey did when she came home at 4 months (clipped and unfledged) was walk up to my cat and grab his ID tags. Cockiness is part of what these guys are about. If someone kissed me when I didn't want them to I'd probably bite them too! :evil: raz

In amazing timing, the issue of WatchBird I got in the mail yesterday has a very interesting article with info on behavior problems in greys that includes factors such as ability to fly. It focuses on how they were raised (pulled and hand-fed, parent-raised or wild) but to control for other factors they also looked at things like cage size, number of toys, and being flighted. The findings on feather picking behavior were that hand-raised greys were the most likely to feather chew later in life. But they also found that not being able to fly was just about as likely to cause this behavior. This is not to say that all clipped birds will become feather chewers, just that flighted birds are much less likely to. To me this says a lot about the effect of flight on a grey's mental health. I'll post more on the article in a new thread. The findings about hand raising are very interesting too. Really contradicts the idea that hand-raised babies make the best pets. In their study group babies pulled right away and hand-raised were the most likely to have problems with aggression, feather picking, and hormonal issues. Parent-raised were also healthiest. raz

p.s. you'll have to be patient with Shanlung. B) He probably knows more about having a flighted and trained Grey than anyone in the world. I think it gets frustrating when he hears the same myths over and over again. The one-sided clip is a very old practice that's rarely done anymore because it leaves the bird with so little control. That said, Shanlung -- behave yourself! ;-) raz

I'd like to add that as far as safety goes, it is not just the false sense of security that is dangerous about clipped wings. In addition to a clipped bird being very ill equipped to fly down from a tree, a clipped bird is even less well equipped to fly up off the ground to avoid the most common dangers: dogs and cats. If a parrot escapes -- and many many clipped birds do -- the worst place for it to be is on the ground. That's often where a clipped grey ends up because they are very heavy bodied. I personally know of two people where I live who have had clipped parrots get loose and killed, one by a dog, and one by a cat. The one that got killed by the dog happened right in front of the owner. It spooked and flew onto the ground and the owner couldn't get to it before a dog did. If parrots must be clipped, at least be sure that you train them for recall so there is a better chance to get them back to you quickly if they escape. And of course that goes for flighted birds as well. Finally, a well-trained flighted bird is much less likely to be fearful and spook than a clipped, untrained bird. This is especially true for greys that were clipped before fledging. Having no means of escape -- from up high or from on the ground -- makes an animal feel very vulnerable. A grounded bird in the wild is a dead bird, and you can't undo millions of years of genetic hard-wiring in the brain. my two cents! raz & carly CAG

Hi -- welcome. I'm new here too. A lot of people have very good results using clicker training to help a parrot get over wariness around people. It doesn't even really matter what you train them to do, it's the training process that helps establish the bond, and helps them see you as the "source of good things." And also what FairY says.... much patience! There's a very good clicker training group on yahoo, that's actually run by Melinda Johnson, the woman who wrote Clicker Training for Birds. Their home page is http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bird-Click/ It's a very friendly and helpful group, and they're familiar with issues regarding wary or fearful rehomed birds. Their library of how-to files alone is worth checking out. I hope it's ok to post links here to groups that offer specialized training info? raz

Carly is still training. She's still getting all her previously clipped flight feathers back in, so that has given us a good time to work on these skills indoors. That's a leash attached to her leg band. I use that when I go on walks with her outside, or a full harness, depending on the situation. She doesn't try to fly when she's on my shoulder, but if she should spook she's not ready for the great outdoors yet. That rarely happens anymore, but it's a safety precaution. The leash is kept short so that she can't get any momentum if she startles, and I just catch her in my hands. The harness that Shanlung uses is designed for actually flying. What I use is just a safety thing. Kind of like a seat-belt for my shoulder. Commonly done by people who fly outdoors when they're transporting their birds to and fro. raz