Muse

We have embarked on a natural feeding program here. We wean all birds off pellets. Pellets are simply the same "awful" seeds that everyone warns against feeding except they have been cooked, ground, slurried, pressed, extruded or otherwise mechanically regurgitated with synthetic vitamins added in because much of what goes in to the pellets is not very nutritious to begin with and it is even less so after processing. Most major brands of pellets contain a chemical called menadione. It is listed under several compound names but all will have menadione somewhere in the name. It is a cheap "source of vitamin K activity" - not even true vitamin K. It's action as such is a subject of much debate. I first "met" menadione years ago when researching dog and cat foods after reading Ann Martin's book "Foods Pets Die For." After Marden died due to something he ate, I began to examine every particle of every food the birds ate. Imagine my surprise when I found this hepatotoxic (liver toxic), banned-for-human-use chemical in my babies pellets! Like every other well meaning bird owner, we at first *offered* the birds pellets. We had ZuPreem, at first, but the Greys hated it. The little birds got Roudybush and seemed okay with it. (Both of these contain menadione and have since been completely discontinued). We later tried Harrisons, which does not contain menadione, but my problem with Harrisons is the very first ingredient is "ground shelled sunflower seeds." Really? Bwuh? Sunflower seeds = major component of "seed diet" - the one that has been vilified by vets and bird experts around the world!?!? The fourth ingredient on the list is shelled peanuts. We don't feed peanuts (or field corn) because of the risk of Aspergillus contamination. The other major brands of pellets that do not have menadione are Goldenfeast Golden'obles and TOP pellets. Those are the only two I might even consider feeding. And Golden'obles have soy beans as the second ingredient which is something many experts say contributes to hormone issues. (I am still undecided on that one). We make our own dry mixes here, along with feeding certain Goldenfeast mixes that do not contain peanuts. I like the Central American Preservation Blend II, but I strongly suspect the papaya and some of the other fruit contains sulfites. (I don't relish a migraine enough to test that theory by eating it). The birds seem okay with it with it. For our own mix, we dehydrate peppers (sweet peppers and hot peppers), greens, fruits, and veggies. We add nuts, higher proportions of the lower fat nuts like organic pistachios unsalted in shells, and almonds in the shell. We also add a small amount of pine nuts in the shell to the 'big bird' mix (small birds like conures can't crack these). I found a recipe on this forum for crackers, and I plan to make and crumble these into bits and mix them in the upcoming batch. I have also added dry pasta, dehydrated COOKED beans, and spices like crumbled CEYLON (not Cassia) cinnamon sticks. Ceylon is the soft stick cinnamon which is true cinnamon. Cassia is the hard bark type and contains much more coumarin which is hepatotoxic in rats and can have an anti-coagulant effect. We also add star anise, juniper berries, and granola (homemade). I have added other things as I can find them, varying the mix each time, but trying to make sure the birds "eat the rainbow" - that is get a steady diet of a varied selection of different colors of veggies and fruits. This helps to insure an adequate vitamin intake as fruits and veggies of similar colors often contain the same types of nutrients. For instance, dark green leafy veggies are a good (natural) source of Vitamin K. In addition to the dry mix which is free fed, we offer fresh food every day. We vary the items but again try to "eat the rainbow" to give a wide spectrum of nutrients. The birds usually get egg every week, whether scrambled, omelet with veggies or seeds, or hard boiled. Hard boiled is served with the shell. We also make sure they get fruit. Our birds are all flighted and get at least a few hours every day in the playroom so they need the sugars for energy. Non-flighted or less active birds may require less fruit or carbohydrates. I also cook for them. They love grain bakes. I usually make mine with fruit as this seems to be favored over savory flavors. I mix pastas, ancient grains like quinoa and amaranth, and organic wild rice. I add in berries, or diced apples and often some diced pecans and walnuts. They are easy to make because you simply dump the ingredients in a casserole dish, add water to cover, and bake until the water is absorbed and the ingredients are done. (Props to Patricia Sund for this idea). I also bake birdie breads and muffins. The last were banana nut modified to be bird healthy. Sometimes I even eat these. I substitute half and half palm fruit oil and coconut oil. The palm fruit oil taste takes a bit of getting used to, but the up side is it is incredibly healthy! In addition, we also give snacks. I pop organic popcorn in a mix of half red palm fruit oil and half extra-virgin coconut oil or just red palm oil. It really LOOKS like movie theater butter popcorn - the red palm fruit oil is so bright yellow. No salt! I used to love salty popcorn but have gotten so used to eating it with the birds that I have discovered I like it better their way. I discussed the non-pellet diet thoroughly with our avian vet and have her blessing. She also suggested giving the Greys figs. She said they have a lot of what Greys need. We now have two fig trees, one laden with fruit. I always look for the NON-sulfured ones (mostly because I cannot eat the sulfites as they trigger migraines for me). Our vet is a certified veterinary acupuncturist and herbalist, and I trust her judgment. I would not undertake such a radical change in their diets without getting her input. As for seed "sucking", it's not seed per se. Parrots in the wild eat seeds. Most wild birds eat seeds. It's just giving a captive bird seeds as the major constituent of their diet, along with little else, that causes problems. Just like humans eating pizza - a slice of pizza per week won't hurt a bit. But if you eat pizza for every meal, you'd have some serious health issues. And the same holds true for almost any single type of food. For us or our parrots. I too believe synthetic vitamins are incomplete at best, and possibly harmful at worst. Here is a good site to get recipes from. I tried chop in many iterations, but realized my birds would not eat it once frozen and then thawed. But many of the guidelines and good ideas for feeding ingredients are there, regardless of how to choose to serve them. http://parrotnation.com/ Good luck and have fun cooking for and eating with your birds!

Be VERY careful with those people. The admins are a vicious group and they quickly delete posts and ban anyone that does not agree with them 100%. I joined because Patricia Sund was affiliated with them but found out the hard way that the admins are on some kind of power trip. Several of them attacked me because I DARED to question feeding pellets that include ingredients that are not fit for human consumption. They deleted the thread and booted me from the group without so much as an IM explaining what was going on. Best to find the ideas somewhere else. Patricia has many of the recipes on her blog.

It's going to be hard to write this, so forgive typos as the screen is a little blurry right now... Before Marden died, we had this little routine. He would go to bed with daddy, who keeps day hours. When I would go in the room, he'd always wake up, and I'd go over and give him some scritches and kisses, and he'd make this very soft coo for me. He was always so sweet, even if I'd woke him from a sound sleep. Megan was always hateful when I woke her up, often striking at the side of the cage if I passed too close. After I lost Marden, I hated to even go to bed, knowing he wasn't there. Not having our little bedtime ritual was one of those moments that pointedly underlined the loss and it was like a knife stabbing into my heart. Fast forward to the last few weeks. I have no idea what started this. Megan always had this... sound... kind of a warbling coo. When I tried to touch her head, she would either make this sound or not. If she did, it meant it was okay to pet her. If she didn't, it was touch at my own risk (which I usually do not do as I don't like being bitten). So now, she sleeps on a play stand in our room. She also has a cage, but it's mostly used for making noise by biting the bars or banging the door when she wants us awake. With her daddy, she will fly to the bed and land on him to wake him up but she never does with me. She has this one sort of low branch where she sits to sleep. I go in at night and have to walk right behind her to get to the bathroom to brush my teeth. So I started going over to her and saying good night. At first she'd do that warbling cooing sound indicating she wanted to be petted. But then a couple of weeks ago, she started making the exact sound Mar used to make. And she started giving me kisses. And letting me give her scritches. I am not sure what caused this change. The first few times, it just made me cry because it reminded me so much of Mar. More and more I am getting used to it and actually look forward to her little kisses before going to bed. Update: So I have started asking her "Make that little noise that mama loves?" and most of the time, she does. It's funny because she KNEW what noise I mean the first time I asked that.

To update: It's now going on four weeks, and the feathers on her back are almost all grown back in and look beautiful. She's happy because I stopped spraying her. The really odd thing is, it was only this one day that I saw a large amount of feathers. Her 'pantaloons' still look a bit sparse but over all she looks great. The blood work came back perfect so that is a load off my mind. She and Peck both need a pedicure so I am thinking about trying to take both of them in the next time and having the vet give her a once-over while they are there. Her weight is holding steady, appetite is great, she's very active and no other symptoms, so I am hoping it was just a one-off thing - maybe it was a weird moult or she had a really itchy spot or something? I am just glad it appears to be past, whatever it was.

That's so funny! I was told the same thing. It's nice to know I was not the only child running around with a salt shaker. I agree on the smooches. Megan has been giving me a lot of volunteer smooches lately. Is she setting me up for the lip-chomping sucker punch? Only time will tell. At least I can always count on my little Alex for kisses.

I see that you have already decided to take in Rocco, and that is wonderful! I will throw my two cents in here. We started life with two baby Greys from the same breeder. Unrelated, they were hatched around the same time and hand fed as a group. They were already very familiar with each other and bonded to both each other and to us. Marden to both of us, and Megan mostly to my husband, at first. Then the unthinkable happened. Marden acquired a systemic Aspergillus infection, attributed to eating something that was contaminated with a large amount of the Aspergillus spores (we suspect feed (dried) field corn in a commercial bird food mix). Though we went through a month of constant vet care, we lost the fight, and he died at the hospital on January 13th of this year. I was devastated by his loss and didn't even want to think about getting another Grey. However, back when we got the Greybies, we took them for their first 'well-baby' vet check, and our avian vet at that time said he believed all birds should be kept with at least one other bird of their kind or at least one they were bonded with. He said there are things they can get from another bird that no human can give them. The first few weeks after Mar died, life was a blur for me. I existed, but it was behind a wall of pent up emotion that burst through many times each day into a flood of tears. I was so worried about Megan that I began to indulge her. She actually gained quite a few grams. Then I started noticing she did not want to take her turn in the playroom. I'd put her in and she'd fly to me before I could get out the door. Or the times I managed to get out the door, she'd sit as near as she could get to the door and call piteously to me or call for her daddy. She didn't play hardly at all, either in her cage or in the play room. I finally realized I needed to put on my big girl panties and think of our girl instead of feeling sorry for myself. We started to look for another Grey. Matt, the founder of Project Perry, knew we were looking. They'd been approached by Peck's owner and were not able to take him. He's a wild-caught boy, twenty-three years or so old, and had been caged for several years while he was in the care of his owner's parents. The parents were no longer able to care for him and his owner was planning for the future as she is leaving the country so she knew she needed to find him a new home. We corresponded by email and she decided we'd be a good home for him. On April 11th he came to live with us. The difference in Megan was profound. She started wanting to go in the playroom again, and once in there she is now all over the room, playing and climbing on the net, all over the play stands, and flying around the room. She was acting like her old self again. Even though she and Peck don't share the same kind of bond she shared with Marden, it was a huge change in her attitude. She seems far happier now. We did go through an episode of what might have been plucking or a really bizarre moult. We rushed her to the vet and had a ton of bloodwork done. This happened all overnight one night - the next morning it looked like half a bird on the bottom of the cage. There has been nothing further since, except the normal feather here and there like all the other birds. Did she have an isolated moment of itchy skin and pluck out the feathers to soothe the itch? Was it some kind of bizarre hormonal flux that caused a massive dropping of feathers? (I used to have a monthly "moult" that made me swear I was going to be bald and it was attributed to a big shift in hormones). The vet did say she didn't see they typical little red 'dots' where the feathers are plucked from the follicles so it didn't look plucked to her, but it sure was bare! We don't know what happened and probably never well. I just know we snuck red palm fruit oil into everything and gave her lots of showers and sprays with Soother spray and she's all nice and feathered now. Aside from that, she's been doing much better since Peck entered our lives. I think it is good for them to have another of their own kind. Currently, all of the birds here do except our newest resident, Ariel the Fischer's Lovebird. I am sure as the rescue grows and we take in more birds, that will change. I bet you will end up having two very good friends, who enjoy both your and each others' company. I think having more than one Grey is the best way to go and I am sure you will be blessed many times over for your kindness in adopting both these birds!

That is an awesome looking little play stand. I have never seen one like that.

We have exactly the same cage you have, for our female Grey. I personally hate it, but my husband loves it. I think it has too much vertical space and not enough horizontal space, as she does not use the bottom half of it. The cage you are considering looks like exactly the same picture as this: http://www.wayfair.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-Small-Split-Level-House-Bird-Cage-with-Divider-PC-4226D-AEC1021.html which is about $100 cheaper. They are out of stock at the moment but expect them back in by 7/8/14. We own two of those, not for Greys but for a cockatiel/sun conure pair, and a family of four green cheeked conures. I love them. Easy to clean, divider is removable, and the swing out doors latch well but are still easy to open. Not crazy about the play top but no one here uses it as the cages are in their 'bedroom' and their out time is in a dedicated play room. As for the cage you have now, Megan loves that "veranda" on her cage. We put a locking crock bowl on the front up near the veranda and we put a throw rug in front of the cage to catch poo and food. (Someday all the floors will be hard flooring... oh I cannot wait!).

We use grates and paper but I don't like the feel of newspaper or the inky mess it makes when putting it in and taking it out. When we were preparing to move to NC, we found "packing paper" which is newspaper that hasn't been printed on! I was so happy! We use this exclusively! Less messy, no gross smudges of ink all over, and it makes doing 'poop checks' simple! I remember having a heart stopping moment when it looked like a large poop in Marden's cage was just full of bright red blood. Turns out there was a colored ad on the back side of the page that bled through when wet.

Oh yes. The budgies are both very adept at this yet. *sigh* Thankfully, everyone else mostly respects "Please go back" so there are only two that really require an extended chase session.

We have several 'layers' of protection. Our birds' rooms are at least one door away from any outside doors except the playroom, which does have an outside door but it is never opened when birds are in the room and cannot be opened without going to the kitchen and retrieving a key. If birds are in the kitchen (when no cooking is going on like during birdie breakfast prep) the back door is also double dead-bolted and the key is in a cabinet beside the door. The other two doors leading out of the kitchen have sheer curtains hanging in the doorways, as I have discovered they won't try to fly through something they think they will 'hit'. This keeps them from flying into the dining room (which does have a door to the garage/outside) and the entryway where the front door is. We also have a dog door through the wall, so dogs can go in and out without the door being opened. The door has double heavy flaps and so far we have never had a bird try to get through it. I think because our birds have all been flighted from babies, they (except for Peck) do not spend a lot of time on the floor. They go down to forage but if anyone comes near, back up to the 'canopy' they go, just like good birdies should. I second the training regarding looking up at the doors. This is something that is hard to always remember, but very important. We have birds that will land on top of a door as soon as it opens (and some who take that as a chewing opportunity *cough* Megan *cough*). It is something that I am hyper-aware of. When the little birds (green cheek conures) are in the playroom, I won't close the doors until I lay eyes on all four of them because if one happens to fly back in the bedroom, they will often try to 'shoot the gap' as I close the door and this has led to some close calls. I know people think I am a lazy housekeeper because the windows to the French doors are always dirty. This is by design. I noticed if they are clean it is more likely that someone will fly into them. Dirty windows don't look as much like open air. Of course, I do clean them. Just not 'squeaky' see through clean. Streaks are my friend. Flying is safer for birds who are skilled. Marden was an excellent flier. Peck is not so much but he is rapidly learning. His landings are sometimes awkward but he does have some problems with his feet and I suspect that, more than flying skills, are what is causing the issue. Maks is an excellent flier and lander, however Alex flies well now but sometimes his landings are a bit....clumsy. I still think this harkens back to him being clipped before he ever flew. Our best fliers are the green cheek babies. They fledged on their own, right from the nest as God intended and have never had clipped wings. They can do amazing things in the air. Aria is pretty skilled at flight and by spending time with her, Anya is learning. I believe being cage-bound for extended periods of time causes them to feel very unsure about flight. I supervise the ones who can't fly well more closely when they are out as they are more likely to get 'stuck' or end up on the floor due to a missed landing. I have no idea how Ariel, the newest resident here, flies as she is still in quarantine yet but she does zip around in the cage pretty well. I love seeing the birds flying around and won't be truly happy until the aviary is ready and they can fly outdoors like the birds they were meant to be.

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my 'geriatric' kitty this past November. We fought many battles for her health and life together, and even though I knew her time was short, it still hurt deeply. Sending thoughts and prayers your way.

Hehe, that's funny! Mar used to "help" me put on my makeup. And I proudly wore it to work. My PNAs (nurse aides) and patients would give me funny looks and I would just explain "I let my two year old put my make up on today." Yes, flighted birds make life SO much more interesting.

Megan's 'plucking' event started when I got a job that kept me away from home for several hours each day. Before, when I worked before we moved, she had Mar to keep her company. When we lost Mar, I focused on giving her as much love and attention as I could - too much perhaps - so much so that I suspect my being gone had something to do with it. Even with Peck being here, they aren't close yet, like she and Mar were. They don't allopreen, or beak play. So I think she still feels a bit lonely. One thing I might suggest, if the plucking seems to correspond to times when you are both not home, is maybe making a home video or even audio recording of you and/or your husband making sounds Levi is familiar with. We have videos we play and also wild bird sounds, when we are not here or busy and sometimes that helps. It may just be a type of separation anxiety, especially if it is mostly happening when you are both gone. Best of luck to you and Levi.

Yes, actually Mar and Megan did tussle occasionally. She is headstrong, and spoiled (and not good at sharing - as you can see in the video). Now, she has NO PROBLEM climbing on HIS cage and getting into HIS treat bowl (outside of cage food bowl). But you see what happens when he wanted some of HER food. She can be a total snot. In fact, when she and Mar were babies, she was the first hatched and outgrew Mar quickly (he was the last hatched of four). He, however, was from a much bigger set of parents, and when she stopped growing at her dainty size, he kept going. At first he put up with her bullying him (as well as bullying the two other males from her clutch). One day, we were at the store (he wasn't weaned yet so couldn't come home) and they were on a T stand with a food bowl. He was munching away when she came over and decided she was going to oust him from the feeding spot. He didn't make a sound, just turned to face her, took one foot, and promptly knocked her right off the perch. She went several feet before righting herself and flapping up to daddy. And squawking like a banshee the whole way (like she did in the video). She's great at playing the victim, let me tell you! I did the 'trying not to snicker' while I said "Now, Mar, that wasn't nice" when inside I was going "Way to go, son!" I am just glad Peck is standing up for himself. She can be a real bully. Last night we cut through the playroom while the green cheeks were in there, and she had to fly up and scare them off the food dish on the smaller stand. In her mind, it's ALL hers! These squabbles are common. I see them in the wild birds. If they really meant to hurt each other, they easily could. But the fact that they don't tells me they know it isn't serious fighting, just a struggle for dominance. They also spend hours together in the playroom with no problems. I just have to make sure there are more than one source of food available or there is an argument.

^^^Seconded! Good advice.

The newest resident here at Marden's Ark - Ariel. She is a 10 year old Fischers Lovebird. She comes from a home with several other birds but is a bit of a loner. She is definitely a she, as she laid eggs years ago when there was another lovebird in her life, but has not done so since (and hopefully won't!). She is in quarantine right now, so she hasn't seen the other birds or the play room. She makes the most adorable little cheeping sound, but only when she's feeling afraid. Most of the time she is extremely quiet. So far all fresh food has been vetoed and she's sticking with the Roudybush she's used to eating. I did sneak a "cracker" in her dish. I hope she at least tries it.

Hehe... well... you know how they say be careful what you wish for. The past couple of days he has flown from the playroom into the bedroom when I have the French doors open, and landed.... ON MY HEAD. Today, he knocked my glasses off. He's not biting, or hurting me, but it is a bit disconcerting to have a pound of flapping Congo African Grey suddenly swoop in and grab my hair in his talons.

ADORABLE!!! What a sweetie!

ROFL Sooooo CUTE!!!

Update: Peck is now easily stepping up on the stick every time with no problems. He lets me carry him around on the stick. Megan was recalling tonight, and each time Peck would lean forward on the play stand and spread his wings out. Once he even fanned them out and flapped, but no take-off. I have to wonder if he's afraid I will be afraid of him and retract my arm at the last minute. Hehe. We still have to work on the trust, but we are getting there. Every day it seems he trains me a little more. He's more a leader than a follower like the rest of the flock. He repeats gestures or sounds until I figure out what they mean. I am betting he's doing little Grey eye rolls at times and thinking "Wow, I got a slow one this time." But eventually I catch on and then he is really big with the show of approval! Tonight he was teaching me a sound, and when I finally was able to imitate it pretty close he started bobbing his head wildly. That seems to be his "good human!" gesture, lol. It's the same thing he did when I had my 'aha' moment over his sign language for almonds-in-the-shell. I can definitely see facets of his personality and mental complexity I don't see in the younger birds. He's such a good bird. He and Megan had their first spat the other night (29th). I managed to catch it on video as I was recording with my cell phone, them trying to catch them dancing (of course they stopped every time I turned the camera on). I put the video on our YouTube Channel. He really gave her a what-for for not sharing her food with him. Neither were hurt except for a bit of wounded pride on Megan's part, I believe. (You can see how well they listen to mama as they completely ignore me the whole time)

Actually, thank Aunalese. She is the one who started us with the whole 'step up stick' method. She wouldn't (and still won't) step up on a hand. I think she was so traumatized in that Petco that she may never lose that fear of human hands. She's a real little sweetheart otherwise. But with her, we had to start offering a small dowel. She has no problem at all stepping on the dowel on command - just never onto a finger or hand. But I am okay with that. It was just natural for us to try this same approach on Peck. I guess Auna trained us well.

I have to say a BIG thank you here. I made some 'crackers' with all organics: sweet potato, flax seed (whole and ground), amaranth, tri-color quinoa, sesame seeds, small amount of sunflower seed (de-hulled), red palm oil, coconut palm sugar, cinnamon and chipotle pepper powder. Megan has gone absolutely nuts for these! She sits and nibbles so delicately at them, and enjoys them until they are a fine powder of crumbs. Thank you so much for sharing this recipe. I plan to experiment more, especially since I found organic sweet potatoes for $1.99/lb (instead of the way overpriced single shrink-wrapped ones at the grocery).

Love these. They are good to mix with grains as well. I started getting them when Mar was sick, and then had so many left over I finally decided to offer them to the rest of the flock. It was a big hit!

We were also told egg once a week, but I usually don't give a whole egg. Used to be 1 egg between six birds, now 2 eggs between ten birds. I leave the shell on and cut wedges and just sit it on top of their breakfast or on the 'shelf' on the play stand if they are having breakfast in the play room. (They take turns). They also loved scrambled which I make in the skillet using coconut oil. I will have to try drizzling it with red palm oil. Last 'omelet' I made was with popped amaranth and they loved it.