Urgent advice needed

[Sindbad]

Greeting folks. I'm a new member and a new African Grey owner (first time). I'm just exploring the site, but I'm forced to write asking for advice.

 

I've had "Sinbad" for about 9 days so far. I got him from a very nice couple. He is only 10 months old. Ever since we took him in the car on the way back home, he's been so sweet and so loving. Once we're home in the evening, he is calling on us nonstop till we pick him up, and he would enjoy us until bedtime. He'd enjoy never ending neck rubs, and he is simply amazing.

 

Last night he was different. he does not want us to rub his neck as usual. When I had him on the desk as I was checking my email, he insisting on chewing on the microphone. I tried gently to keep him away, which always worked with him, but this time he was audacious. I took him back to his cage. His behavior started to change. I never got made or yelled at him. He hates going inside his cage now. In a few minutes, I took him out, but he refused to let me give him the neck rub he loves. When I tried to kis him on his beak, as I always did, he bit my lip, and it was hard. I still did not yell at him but of course he knows he did something wrong. I don't know if I could descipline him somehow without making him upset.

 

Today in the morning he wouldn't step up except to get out of the cage. When I tried to put him in the cage before I left to work, he was so upset. I took him out again to comfort him. He never had a problem with his cage over the past few days. I took him out and he stepped up on my hand only to grab the door and climb on top of the cage. Then he refused to come to me and he flared his feathers and was ready to attack at any attempt to take him . I gave him a few minutes and tried again in vain. I had to wrap my finger with paper tissues to get him to come and place him in the office.

 

I believe there is something terribly wrong here. Please give me advice. I'm sorry for the long post.

[she]

Well this could be that Sinbad has been on his best behaviour while getting aquainted with his new home.He is now trying to see how much he can get away with. They can be so like spoilt children.Another posability is that he is not feeling him self.Have you had a vet check on him since you got him. My grey has been a hand full the last few days but I am putting it down to the spring time and his hormones.If sinbad is eating and other wise normal it is probabley just him being bolshy. Do not disiplin him at all but ignore any bad behaviour,A vet check would be wise in any case as he is a new grey to you.Why did his last owner give him up?He is still a baby and could be at a stage where he is becoming more independant.

[SchroedersJen]

Schroeder is sweet 90% of the time...the other 10% he is a twerp. They like to test limits now and then to see if you are still in charge. I dont put up with it, and it sounds like you acted in an appropriate way. I wouldn't worry about it just yet. I agree with She that a wellness check is a good idea, but I'd bet my car on the fact that Sinbad wants to see if you really rule the roost.

[Sindbad]

Thank you so much for the reply. I've been refreshing the page waiting for some assistance.

 

Sinbad's eating habits are strange but have been consistant since we got him. He only eats his Pellets or seeds. I tried to get him to eat vegetables or fruits, he moves his head away. The only thing I got him to try was cranberry guice.

 

I'm tending more to think that he knows we love him dearly and he is the center of our attention. But I don't know how to modify his behavior. Ignore him and leave him in the cage? Or let him out of the cage? Can I give him time out?

 

As for the vet, do you know how much it costs to have him checked? Are there any other signs that would alert me to the need for a vet other than being grumpy and obnoxious?

[judygram]

Sounds like the honeymoon is over and Sinbad is trying to assert his independence, he will test you to see if you will back down.

 

You should get a vet check on him and yes it can be expensive but it is money well spent, you don't want anything to happen to him that could have been avoided.

 

Don't give up on trying to get him to eat vegetables and such, sometimes they will eventually try them after ignoring them for a while, just keep offering them in various ways.

 

Why don't you introduce yourself in the welcome room and tell us some more about you and Sinbad.

[she]

I would just place him on the cage and leave him if he is being bad.Let him out,the more the better.If he is being very bad 10 mins in his cage wont do any harm. Parrots are very good at hiding illness untill they are very sick but If he is lively, eating and his poop is ok i think he will be fine. Vets can differ in cost but avian vets dont come cheap.Keep giving the fresh fruit and veg and hope in time he will try it.

[chimaysmommy]

I would agree that a vet wellness check would be a good idea regardless of any outward symptoms, since greys don't starts showing symptoms to US until they're already very ill. Plus like She said it's a good idea regardless since he is new to your home.

 

Chimay is about 5 months old, and I would have to agree with SchrodersJen on the ratio of 90% sweet 10% twerp. Maybe even 80/20 sometimes. Ha ha! I would put my money on him testing his boundaries with you...like a testy little toddler. Please keep us posted on his progress!

[Joolesgreyuk]

I would say that if he is taking juice than he is getting the best part of ther fruit anyway and wouldn't worry too much but as the others on here have said - don't give up trying.

 

As for the behaviour, you might find that he will start behaving as quickly as he started misbehaving. I don't believe that punishment is a good idea but if you keep putting him in his cage everytime he misbehaves he should soon work it out for himself. Good luck

[Luvparrots]

Hi Sindbad, congratulations on your new baby grey. I have an 8-month-old TAG and she is sweet as can be, except sometimes she wants to do what she wants to do. Once Sinbad learns the household routine, it should be easier. I would start the return to the cage earlier to ensure that you are not late to work. It takes time, don't be a softy once you get Sinbad into his cage talk to him gently, tell him you will be back after work. Whatever you do with him, talk to him about it and the trust and comfort will come. Welcome to the family. Can't wait to see some pictures of Sinbad!

[Char]

The only thing I will add to what has already been said is this: The only time Whisper has REALLY not wanted to go into her cage is when I put a new toy in there that she is afraid of. I got her some new better perches but I cannot put them in the cage because she is afraid of them. Have you added something new to the cage?

 

Also try not to spoil the baby too much. (I know it is hard) If you hold the bird all the time when you are home, that is what it will expect. Start out the way you intend to remain. I will insist Whisper spend some time in her cage even on the weekend. I call it naptime.

[Char]

The only thing I will add to what has already been said is this: The only time Whisper has REALLY not wanted to go into her cage is when I put a new toy in there that she is afraid of. I got her some new better perches but I cannot put them in the cage because she is afraid of them. Have you added something new to the cage?

 

Also try not to spoil the baby too much. (I know it is hard) If you hold the bird all the time when you are home, that is what it will expect. Start out the way you intend to remain. I will insist Whisper spend some time in her cage even on the weekend. I call it naptime.

[Char]

One more thing. My vet advises to not use the birds cage as a place of punishment. He says to use another smaller cage or carrier and only for a few minutes. He says that a birds home cage should be a place of refuge and where they feel comfortable. It makes sense that if you put the bird in the cage as punishment it will associate it with punishment. Also how does the bird know when you put it in the cage if it is for punishment or otherwise?

 

Just a thought.

[Dave007]

You've had him for 9 days and you're seeing different behaviors. Expect that to happen for quite a while. He has other things that now interest him and you may not be a part of that interest right now. He's got a lot to discover and pick up in your house. Habits, environment, sights, sounds, routines. They usually do these things by themselves. Count off the days from the beginning that he was very friendly and nice to when he's started acting different. When he started acting differently is when you actually brought home a bird that has a personality to develop. This is just another part of him emerging and in the near future you'll see a lot of that. They learn all sorts of things, they act differently towards those things and they let you see different sides of them starting to develop. He's not gonna wanna be rubbed all the time. His behavior changed because it's supposed to change.

""chewing on the microphone"""

Extremely common and you should expect him to wanna chew on many things you don't want touched.

"""When I tried to kis him on his beak, as I always did, he bit my lip, and it was hard.""""Very bad habit to get into and your bird has now given you fair warning that he will definitely do it again.

"""I gave him a few minutes and tried again in vain. I had to wrap my finger with paper tissues to get him to come and place him in the office."""Start off that whole process by using an 8 to 10 inch perch until he gets calmed down. It doesn't mean that he'll always stay calm in the future which is why you need to have that little perch nearby when he decides to be stubborn. It happens once in a while with all birds and you gotta be prepared.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/04/15 04:13

[Sindbad]

Thank you all for all your great help and advice. I just wanted to make sure he was not going through something serious that I was unable to detect.

 

Apparently I have a lot to learn about him and how to deal with his issues. I will bear with him and see what other signs he will give me.

 

It is just so strange that he changes completely like that overnight. Now when I carry him and pass by the cage, he leans to go to the top of his cage, he tries to bite me many times, and he seems ot have a problem with me, though I'm very soft and gentle with him all the time. May be it's a mood swing!!!

[Acappella]

Welcome to the end of the honeymoon period:P Sounds like he's figuring out his place in the 'pecking order' in the house. One of the biggest tools in your discipline tool kit is attention. Greys love it, especially being the center of attention. When he's being a brat ignore him. If you can't leave the room, turn your back and give him the silent treatment for a few minutes until he is calling to you to come see him. If he lashes out again make a stern face, because they read facial expressions, say no, shake your head, whatever works for you, and ignore him again. He should learn pretty fast that certain behaviours mean being ignored. Also, when you 'catch' him being sweet and well behaved give him a tiny treat, a tiny bit of walnut or almond, whatever he likes. It really is very much like dealing with a toddler. Good luck.

[judygram]

Excellent advice Marguerite and it is like dealing with a perpetual two year old toddler, karma for you my dear.

[Acappella]

Hi. How goes the discipline with Sinbad?

[SamsDad]

Welcome to the wonderful world of grey ownership! Just remember, the ongoing, never-ending question in this long relationship will be: Who owns who? :unsure:

 

Please excuse the long post but I want to offer you some encouragement and hope as well as offer some insight to that little feathered toddler you have there.

 

Sinbad is feeling you out, to see what makes you tick. These birds are constantly exploring their world and right now he needs to figure you out too. The good news is, he has shown you his potential to be affectionate and loving.

 

He's new to you and his world has changed. His change in behavior could be just as simple as he overloaded on all the new attention just like a toddler who's spent the weekend at the grandparents house and is now back home to a regular bedtime. :evil:

 

The best thing to fall back on is patience. He's looking at the world through bird eye's and his new flock's instincts can conflict with, his causing frustration. Give him a little space but keep interacting with him. He's a social animal that WANTS to be part of his new flock. Dave gave some great tips for you to use. The one about using a 12" perch is a great one to start the handling process with a nippy bird. If you use it, try to use the cue "Step Up" and place the tick infront of him with easy upward motion under the lower part of his chest just like you would with a finger and say "Step Up". If he stikes at the stick just repeat the attempt calmly again. If he apears to be getting too upset, stop, talk nicely to him and give him some time. Leave the situation on positive terms because you want him to learn you are consistant, predictable and can be trusted. Another thing to try is watch for HIS cues. I'm a few days ahead of you with my new bird Sam. I've had him 10 days and our first couple we a little like yours. The night I got him home he would bend hid head down and let me scratch him but the next day it was "DON'T - TOUCH - ME". I backed off and just came over to talk to him, then I'd walk away for a little while. I'd come back and say nice things to him getting closer - but still out of range, then would walk away. I was basically seducing him with some positive attention AND I was gaining his trust. It wasn't long before he was getting excited when he saw me from across the room. His body language was clear - "HI, HELLO, HERE I AM, TALK TO ME, HEY, COME HERE PUUUUULLLLEEEEASE. When I got closer he was a little apprehensive and would move to the back of his cagetop. No big deal, I just talked and praised him.

 

After a little while, I tried picking him up again with the "STEP UP" cue but he'd grab my finger hold it for a second and squeeze if I didn't remove it. I decided to back off until he calmed down but I still talked to him before leaving as to leave the encounter on a positive note. After a while I decided to try the perch trick. A couple tries and he was up! Since birds instictively want to move to the highest point I kept the perch end slightly elevated and held him a little away from me to make him more comfortable. I just praised him and talked to him for a short time then set him back down on the cage only to repeat the perch - "STEP UP" lift again. More praise and a return to the cage. About the third or forth time I had him on the perch and decided to lay my index finger along to top of the end I was holding, then slowly lowered the end of the perch until it was a slight incline toward my hand. He shifted his position side stepping toward my hand and tentatively reached out with his foot to place it on my finger. A few seconds later and he was on my hand and I sloooooly remove the perch from below with my other hand, praised and talked to him and returned him to his cage. Then is was Sam's turn to train me! I noticed the next day he was coming down onto the open door to his cage where he'd stand and act like he wanted to fly over to me. Thank goodness I caught the cue and I calmly walked over held my finger up and said "STEP UP" He lifted his foot, and on my finger he went! Again more praise but it wasn't long before he kinda realized what he'd done, and he leaned over to lightly grab my thumb. I let him do it to see what he'd do and he did his squeeze thing to the point where it started to hurt. I didn't want to re-enforce the behavior by placing him back on his cage when he did it, so I lifted my other hand up, and calmly toward him to distract him. It worked, he let go of my thumb to watch the other hand, so I lowered it, praised him again and while he attention was on me talking to him, said "Ok, time to back to your cage", then set him down saying "STEP DOWN". I didn't want him to learn that squeezing my finger until it hurt was a control cue - like - I'll bite you and you'll put me down".

 

That was the routine for the next few days. When he wanted to be picked up, he'd go to the top of his door and act like he was going to fly to me, that was his cue to me, I'd go over, offer my finger saying "STEP UP" and praise when he did it. In less than a week we'd learned to trust each other and I can pick him up from anywhere and just about anytime. He prefers to ride around on my shoulder rather than my hand so I tired it out. My first aqttempt was with the understanding that I might end up with some new holes in my ears to hang toys from :woohoo: but instead I was given my first preening including my eyelashes! We were now buddies! Since you are new I'd hold off on shoulder riding until you know how to read him well. Some bird learn to ear nip for control and that can REALLY hurt!

 

As for him wanting to play with things you don't want him to - hahahaha.... top a well adjusted, curious grey, the WHOLE WORLD is FULL of toys! Again, like a toddler in the house, you'd have to bird proof the area where he's hanging out. Try hiding the mic cord, clear the desk and have a few toys around for him to play with. Keep in mind that keyboard YOU are playing with will look like more fun. Its a blast to pop the keys off - same with the TV remote, phone buttons, pens pencils etc.

 

Lastly the in and out of the cage is going to take some work. He may calm down as he gets to know you and it may not be an issue. My last grey Nelson started biting HARD when it was time to go back in the cage for bedtime. He even got to the point if I said "Ok, time to back to your cage" it was time to BITE! Even with many years of experience this was a tough one to deal with. For a while I'd show him one of his favorite treats - a peanut - and would set him in the cage and drop it in his dish. It wans't long before he's see the peanut - know what it meant - and he would bite me. Even giving him the peanit to chew on as we headed to the cage did work long. He'd crunch it up in anger then bite me. The times he didn't bite he'd jump off my hand to the floor and he'd run. For a while I was out of ideas and my only option seemed to be returning him to the top of his cage and leaving him alone for a while. He's usually put himself to bed but if he saw me coming he'd scramble to the door. Bedtime was quite a game. After a few weeks of this I thought of something new. I could alway calm him down by cupping my hand over his and holding him close. This is what I'd learned to do when clipping him wings or his toenails. Sure enough, If I'd place my other hand over him, finger cupped over his head, I could place him back in the cage. He's still try a halfhearted nip as I removed my hand but it avoided bloodshed (mine of course). After a while this seemed to break the cycle and he was much more willing to go back in his cage. We were back in our routine of him going to bed and saying "night night" as I covered his cage. I guess my message here is, you'll have to be clever and alway be on guard to NOT re-enforce negative behavior. You and Sinbad will learn each other's cues and will develope a relationship that will last for many many years.

Be aware though that like others have posted above there'll be those times when your bird will just be going through the "terrible twos" and there's "twerp" in every bird, but through a stable relationship their cute side will alway return.

 

Uh, ohhh... my little "toddler" have just decided I've spent long enough at the computer and I'll either have to type with one hand and scratch with the other or go play. I'm getting kissie noises now so play it is.

 

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

Tom