Help Please

[Julie]

My Eclectus, Gomez passed away almost two weeks ago after leg surgery. My African Grey, Dante, is exhibiting new behaviors now. Also, my son left for camp a few days ago, which probably also didn't help. My Eclectus died in front of Dante. He gave out a few screams and stopped breathing.

 

Dante has started talking more and stopped a lot of the calling and beeping and barking he was doing when I left the room. He still does it but it isn't as intense. Even when I was in the room he would constantly beep and yell for attention when Gomez was still alive and that's calmed down.

 

However, he's begun to stand at the top of his cage at the back and he looks down at the floor and moves his head and body back and forth like he's watching tiny people play tennis or something and he repeatedly says, "Oh dear, oh dear!"

 

He's also started biting me when I ask him to step up. I'm working with a behaviorist that told me to notice his behavior and my behavior before he bites. He isn't all that into food rewards, and will take the food and throw it to the ground to show me how much he doesn't care about it. I am told to offer my hand and if he lunges or bites to walk away. I don't want to teach him that biting makes me walk away. The behaviorist agreed and she said the key is to not let him bite or lunge in the first place. In other words, if he won't step up onto his play stand, wheel it into the house. The behaviorist is great, I'm just wondering if anybody else has suggestions or insight.

 

Also, I had bubble wrap on the back sliding glass door by his cage to insulate against the cold. It started to come down the other day so I pulled it down. For the past three months he hasn't been able to look out the window. For the past 6 days now, he has been able to look out the window into the back yard again (which he likes). I think it's helped with the screaming, and he's playing with a bottle trying to get the lid off now, which he stopped doing (playing independently) when the bubble wrap was up. He's playing now in front of the window so he can look out. I'd think that would make his behavior better, not worse.

 

He'll also be 2 on March 29 . . . hormones?

 

Does anybody have any additional suggestions. I can't believe he's biting. Dante and I have always had a good relationship and now it's falling apart. He also had a lot of pin feathers a week ago, but his feathers seem to be coming in. Suggestions?

 

Post edited by: Julie, at: 2009/03/07 01:45<br><br>Post edited by: Julie, at: 2009/03/07 01:46

[Dave007]

In his little atmosphere and mind , lots of things have recently happened. Some of those things are the lack of slight unnoticable reactions and communications between your 2 birds. The ones you know about are the ones you only saw. They can communicate with each other without making a sound. When any companion bird passes or leaves a house, there's loads of reactions that a bird can have. Many are very subtle, some obvious. As far as saying *oh dear*, well he had to get that from you sometime in the past. There may be coincifdences going on here. He likes to look out the backyard but you really can't see everything he's looking at and the way he interputs it. Many of the things birds see, we'll never see in our lifetime.

 

"""I am told to offer my hand and if he lunges or bites to walk away. I don't want to teach him that biting makes me walk away. """"

 

I think you may be wrong there. What do you wanna teach him when he lunges or bites? The lack of attention to many different problems concerning birds have be solved by just that..walking away. If you know ahead of time that he's in a biting or lunging mood, then just stay away but if you are about to have him * step up* and he decides to bite, it's time to say no and walk away. The reason why he bit was because he didn't wanna have you messing around with him at that moment.

The rocking on the top of the cage might just be what you said it was--a match between the Williams Sisters. Just a joke. It'll stop though. It's just another repetitive thing that parrots do over and over and then stop.

 

"""""Dante and I have always had a good relationship and now it's falling apart. """""

 

I seriously doubt that very much. He's doing too many good things everyday that tells me that he doesn't have any bad intentions towards you. You're in overdrive right now and you need to calm down and give things a chance to settle down.

 

2 yrs old and hormones?

 

It's possible but because he's a male it won't last that long, but will make him short tempered and bitchy is a molting cycle. Many greys become extremely irritated and nippy and wanna be left alone.

 

Concerning this molt right now---if you've been petting him just make sure you pet in the direct that the feather is aimed at. Going against the grain will only cause him to nippy and possibly lunge.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/03/07 03:10

[Julie]

Thanks Dave -

 

"Oh Dear" is something he learned from my son. I was just saying the vocalization went along with the imaginary tennis match on the ground. I didn't mean it had reference to Gomez. When he calls out "Gomie!" then it may. He stopped doing this, however.

 

He enjoyed looking outside the sliding glass door. Then I put the bubble wrap up to insulate the house and he couldn't see out. Now it's down and he can see outside. I didn't mean he was looing for Gomez, just that these new behaviors did somewhat coincide with him having his view returned.

 

I know ignoring bad behavior supposedly extinguishes it, I just don't want Dante to think that if he wants me to go away, biting is the way to communicate this to me.

 

Julie

[danmcq]

Hello Julie,

 

I am sorry to hear of the sudden loss of your much loved Eclectus Gomez. You wouldn't expect that from leg surgery, unless there were underlying causes from the surgery such as infection or the like. You have my condolences.

 

In regards the behavioural changes in Dante, Dave gave great advice. Especially when he states to observe his stance and body language before you even approach and try to get a step-up.

 

It is the same we humans have learned in reading others body language through posturing and facial expression. You can just tell by a glance if the person would welcome interaction or not and you act accordingly.

 

I would imagine you can tell quite easily when your Grey wants your attention and to be with you. If you do not see those indicators, then just let him be.

 

The dynamics Dave mentioned of the death of Dantes "Buddy" and the Bubble wrap blocking his view outside are mentally disturbing factors he is working through. He may have even been leery of the bubble wrap. With the wrap gone and view restored, it sound like he is slowly coming around.

 

The bottom line though, is avoid confrontation unless you must insist on getting a step up to place him back in his cage.

 

Also, ignoring bad behavior such as Biting does not extinguish it. What helps is paying close attention to their body language and knowing your going to get bit before you even think about trying a step up and just not even move as if your going to try one. That is then acknowledging you recognize the signs he is giving you and he'll respect that you acknowledge his space.

[Julie]

Thanks, those are essentially the things the behaviorist told me to do. Hopefully it will also help when my son comes home. Dante also developed this game where he likes to hang upside down and get me to scratch his belly, then he reaches out with a foot and wants my finger so he can hang on to it tightly and bite it. When that element of the game appeared I stopped engaging in that game completely. I also wonder if this is part of why he's doing it?

 

I'm upset by the vet's behavior in Gomez's case. I also wonder if me bringing him in with the broken leg on Wednesday and surgery not being done until Friday contributed to anything. Also, when I picked him up, they filed his beak and put a collar on him. When he got into his carrier (a plastic tub), he seemed really thirsty, and the water he drank came out of his nose. The next morning he let out a few screams, stopped breathing and died.

 

The vet said he was shocked and offered to do a necropsy because he said he needed to find out for himself. He said he would do the necropsy that night and call me that night. He never did. I called two days later and he said that when he opened Gomez up that his intestines were full of blood. He didn't bother to call me or ask if I wanted blood work or an independent necropsy. He just disposed of the body. I told him he could do that after the necropsy, but I would think if he found something that disturbing in the necropsy that he would call.

 

He asked me what I fed Gomez and I said Earth's Best Organic Baby Food. He said something in the baby food killed him. Dante ate the same food and was fine. This isn't a main staple of their diet by any means. They get sprouted seed, fruits, vegetables, beans, etc as the main part. I just used maybe a tablespoon sometimes for some flavoring, especially the one that was a large mix of vegetables. Earth's Best makes it very clear that there are no food colorings, etc. I also told him before he did Gomez's surgery that I fed him this sometimes and he didn't say a word.

 

I asked other vets and an Eclectus specialist and they both said this explanation is impossible.

 

I went in person and asked for the necropsy report and was stalled and told there was a 48 hour turn around time. The vet told me I would have it that night. A week later I wrote a letter stating I wanted the report in 48 hours. The next day I got 4 pages of illegible handwriting faxed to me. In all of the scrawl I couldn't make out anything that said "babyfood" or anything about blood in the intestines.

 

He also offered to compensate me by seeing if he could get an unweaned baby from a breeder if I could get somebody to hand feed it. He said it would be a low cost to me to purchase it from the breeder. Selling unweaned birds is illegal in California.

 

Note that this guy is supposed to be one of the top avian surgeons. When I called around to reputable people looking for an Eclectus and they asked why an Eclectus and I told them, it's amazing the stories you hear. The whole thing is a nightmare.

 

If anybody lives in California and you have a bird that needs surgery, check with me so you don't end up in this position. Something is very weird about his behavior ever since he did this supposed "necropsy."

 

Julie

[Tycos_mom]

I'm so sorry you are going through all this. It sounds to me like you are under allot of stress about you Electus and this so called vet and Dante may be picking up on this and that could be way the change in his behavior Grey are very sensitive to the feelings of their humans and he just may be reacting to what he sences from you.