Char Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dave, I agree. Not everyone has the resources, personality or experience to deal with a rescue. Kudos to you for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi Kyle, many bright welcomes! in terms of your situation - you know, i think in the end, the only person who can really know for sure whether you are ready or not is you. You seem to have done a good job of gathering as much information as possible on greys. The only additional recommendation I might have is that if you have an opportunity to spend time with some greys, get to know them, and see the level of action they can generate, that might be helpful. From my own experience I can tell you that my grey Bella is VERY, VERY active. It really is like having a 2 year old child around. From the moment I come home until I go to bed she is with me. She has several playstands in various places with different toys which she'll play with while I'm doing things, but the minute I get up and walk away, she flies afer me (she's flighted). Her mind is unsatiable as far as wanting to learn new things and have new experiences. There is NOTHING she's not interested in, and that keeps me on my toes! She also "hangs" out with my greyhounds, particularly if they are barkng at something, she's right there with them ready to go after what ever it is they're going after. I guess what I'm saying is Bella is a very active family member. I do work from 8 to 5. She is in her cage at that time, but she's also in an open area where she can watch everything going on in the yard, and she's together with my conure Jiggy in the adjacent cage and of course the greyhounds are with her. I've created foraging opportunitie for her in her cage and alternate her foods regularly and place them in interesting ways for her. She has about 5 hours/day out of cage time. What Ive found on the weekends are that from 1 pm to about 4 she likes to snooze and bask in the sun. She does that either on one of her playstands or on her playtop on her cage. So, I that leads me to believe during the day both she and Jiggy snooze in the afternoon when I'm not home. Jiggy puts himself to bed around 8:30 in the evening, and Bella stays with me until I go to bed around 10 pm. I'm not sure if any of this is useful, but that's how we do things! Best Regards Terri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dave007 wrote: I breed African greys for one purpose only. Money. I sell quality birds who make people extremely happy and many times those birds fill in the person something that's missing. I screen potential customers as do all of the other breeders I know. Thank you for addressing this Dave -I'm no fan of broad sweeping statments either. In fact, while studying biology for several years, I became quite aware of how stressful the life of prey animals can be. There are most certainly terrible cases of animal abuse from breeders and bird keepers, but to cast everyone on that dye is really not appropriate IMO. R/Terri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi Dave, First of all, I just want to say that I appreciate very much all the time and wisdom you give to the forum, and I concede that you know infinitely more about Greys than I do. I don't dispute that for a moment. Where we disagree is on the ethics of raising, breeding, keeping parrots. Don't get me wrong there either. I love my parrot and am thrilled every day to live with him and care for him, but I am re-thinking the whole set of issues from the parrots' point of view, and probably the bottom line is that I think wild animals should live in the wild with their groups of conspecifics. I would say the same thing about chimpanzees or dolphins or elephants. None of these species should be owned or exploited by people or removed from their natural environments. I don't really see any villains in the breeding system, so I'm not blaming people -- just trying to develop a vision of how I'd like to see the future. I will go on to look at a couple of your specific comments. You can't possibly be aware of what all breeders do. That's a good point and obviously true. But what I was saying is that a breeder can't possibly know what the future life of a bird is going to be like. No matter how well you screen a particular buyer (and no one among the breeders I spoke to and were ready to sell me a bird screened me for a nanosecond), you can't know what will happen five or ten years from now. For an animal with a 5-year lifespan you would have a better case, but we know that most birds will end up recycled down the road to unknowable owners. I HOPE my heirs will take good care of Shanti, but I honestly don't think that's terribly realistic. My daughters will marry, have families of their own, and --- s*** happens. If a parrot actually had rights, like a human being, to protection, it might be different. But, as you know, there are virtually no standards. If it wasn't for people like myself and many other exotic bird breeders that I know, there would be loads and loads of other people who wouldn't have birds as pets. Also true. Maybe we shouldn't have them as pets. Why did you get one? Part of the way I justified getting one to myself is by saying, "He's already alive. If I don't buy him, someone else will. He might as well be with me where I will love him as long as I live than with the next random person who walks in the door with $1000 who will likely be a lot more clueless than I am." But that reasoning doesn't mean we should be breeding them in the first place. >> Your bird was taken away before his eyes were open? That's your responsibity to find out if that's proper and there's hundreds of guides telling you not to accept a bird that young.>> I think you misunderstood me here. I'm saying that the breeder took the bird from his parents basically at birth. He told me "his eyes were still closed" as a "feature" of good breeder technique, like "hand-feeding." I commend you for what you have done for Tee. So tell me, are you ready to a Tee type bird home with you from a shelter or even from another home? I'm certainly not ready. Nor am I saying that people should take on that kind of commitment casually. I'm just saying that I think it's more ethical to take on a bird that already exists, as you did with Tee, than to bring a new one into the world. I think I failed in living up to this standard. I thought seriously about adopting, but at the end of the day, I took the easy route. I don't regret it because I love Shanti so much, but I think what you did with Tee or what others members here,( like Tycosmom and Bmustee )who have rescued birds, is better moral conduct than mine. --------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 thank you Nychsa! Your scenario helps me greatly! I would actually be able to, on average, give my future grey more than 5 hours a day out of the cage. so this is very encouraging! I REALLY appreciate your post and you have inspired me and encouraged me more to get one! I would LOVE to have an active bird they flew to me and was always with me and curious about new things! -Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 KyleA wrote: thank you Nychsa! Your scenario helps me greatly! I would actually be able to, on average, give my future grey more than 5 hours a day out of the cage. so this is very encouraging! I REALLY appreciate your post and you have inspired me and encouraged me more to get one! I would LOVE to have an active bird they flew to me and was always with me and curious about new things! -Kyle :laugh: Kyle, becareul what you wish for!!! I was working from home today, and little Miss Bella had brand new play things to mess with. But! my keyboard was MUCH more interesting! She tried to pull keys off my keyboard, she ran off with my papers, she grabbed my computer access card and ran off with it only to take flight and have me chase her around the kitchen. Finally I realized that I wouldn't get anything done unless she took a nap, so I put her in her cage. But! Then a neighbor came over with her little dog and Bella started growling fiercely. I thought she was feeling threatened in her cage, so I opened the door so she could get on her playtop and observe the little dog from higher up. Baloney! Bella wasn't scared, she wanted to dive bomb the poor little guy! My neighbor and I both decided it's better for the little dog to get out of harm's way! Bella is a trip! EVERYTHING in this house is her business! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdgirl Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I got my grey when I was 15. I had many people tell me that it was a bad idea and that I would be getting rid of him when I went to college. I'm happy to say that through college, moving out on my own, getting married and having a baby my grey is still a huge part of my life. It really seems to me that you have already made up your mind and you most likely wont be swayed. You have done the research and have a pretty good idea of what you are getting into. Just make sure that every one in the home is on the same page and that you get a very large cage and make a stimulating environment. Here are a few easy things to help make time for a grey. Eat breakfast together. You will end up eating better that way Shower and get ready for the day together. Put a t-stand/climbing tree next to your study area. TV time is always grey time! Plan dates/outings after your greys bed time. Very few people will advise you to get a grey at your age but I've been there and done that. If you are any where as determined as I was you will make a wonderful grey owner. Good luck and please let us know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 birdgirl, karma to you! thank you for actually being in my situation and telling me your story of experience! I am very aware of all the things needed to own a grey! I am prepared for it to trash anything in my room! even if i THINK it is protected! I watched a grey for about 2 months and "bird sat" it and man, it was a tricky little guy!! even though it ruined a few things, I laughed seeing them ruined. the things you listed: getting ready together, eating together, those things make me smile just THINKING about it! I know that It's totally not all fun and games, a grey is like a 2 year old, it needs love, attention, nutrition, and maybe even a little discipline from time to time :lol: I do not underestimate the genius of these animals, from the 2 months I had the one, I found that it tricked me because I underestimated its capabilities. basically, I know a little bit about what I am getting into. last time I went into my local bird place,(not petco, an actual exotic bird store) I couldn't stop smiling from all the entertainment I was getting from the greys there. the Hyacinth was also VERY awesome! biggest bird I have ever held! I get so excited thinking that it is VERY possible for me to own a grey very soon! Thank you EVERYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaM Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Kyle - From what you have been saying, I think you would provide a fine home for a Grey (probably better than many out there). Yeah, maybe you should look into whether a CAG or a TAG would fit more for you (based on the generalities, that is). I think you would do fine with either though. Baby vs. older bird...you can find older birds that don't have a lot of baggage, but it takes a lot of patience and the willingness to turn down some along the way that you might want to "rescue". If you want a baby, I would find yourself a really good breeder. One who asks you just as many questions as you ask them is a good indication that they are like Dave and care about the babies they are bringing into the world. Thankfully I have come across some breeders who are absolutely wonderful and won't sell a bird to someone who hasn't come to the "social Sundays" to learn about handling and to help socialize all the babies, including yours. They are out there. One thing I would add though...even if your family is home almost all the time, I would work to ensure your Grey can entertain himself/play/forage on his own. That will just help make for a happier bird down the road when you are out of your family home and starting a family of your own. It sounds like you have a good support system around and if you get one (whenever that is, now or later), you will ALWAYS have US at greyforums! :-) We all do our very best for our birds, yet we all have different strategies in dealing with all sorts of topics. If you read through enough threads, you will figure out what makes sense and will work for you and what won't. None of us claim we are perfect and do everything perfectly. Most of us are still learning as we go along as well. The final decision can only be made by you. I think you'll do fine either way. Keep us posted on your decision making process. There is much to learn almost every day here. Lots of FUN too! Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thank you Lisa! greatly appreciate it! More encouragement is always good! and yes! my bird would always be entertained! id probably call home every hour just to make sure he/she is entertained and doing ok! I'd buy it toys ALLLLL the time! I already know a cage that I'm going to buy it, it's about 400 dollars and meant for a blue and gold! I want the biggest and best for this bird! seriously! no short cuts for me! i'll buy it multiple perches that hang from the ceilings, and standing perches for the kitchen and probably another cage/playstand for outside! Thanks again! :) Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
she Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Kyle I forgot to say in my post earlier that my cousin went to sea at about 16 years old,on one of his first journey,he brought home a wild caught grey called Blue.That bird is still a very much loved and cherished part of his family 40 years later.Blue has been a constant companion and friend and is the most world savvy bird you could ever meet . So it can be done.<br><br>Post edited by: she, at: 2009/02/12 11:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janfromboone Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 When I brought Tobie home, I admit I didn't know much about Greys and did not do the research that you have done. I had never been around a grey like you have. It has been an amazing adventure for me in spite of my ignorance at the time. I've got to tell you that whatever I was expecting, Tobie has been so much more. Tobie was a hand raised baby though and we grew togeather learning from each other. It might have turned out quite different if I started out with a bird with vices and emotional baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Another quick question, does a cockatoo need more attention than a CAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhhuhma Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm not sure about attention but when I went to the breeder of Echo's house he took me to 2 buildings one was full of greys and one full of cockatoos I could not wait to get out of the building with the too's they are beautiful birds but oh my lord do they scream. A friend of mines sister has one I have never seen it but my friend said that it screams so loud you can hear it all the way down the street, so I assume if you wouldn't spend enought time with it it could drive you crazy. I have never heard my Grey (Echo) be very loud he makes some silly squeeks and yes he can get loud but I wouldn't call them screams. Just what I have seen and heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 I really love cockatoos also and am just curious about the differences! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhhuhma Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I think they are beautiful and everyone I know that has been around them say they are super funny and silly they sound really fun I just think they are very noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 I know this is a forum for grey, but I went to a bird store and I love their personalities! Very sweet and cuddly. Very gorgeous too. So I want to know what everyone thinks! Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 And when I say they, I mean cockatoos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycos_mom Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I had a cockatoo for awhile they are very sweet and cuddly but the do scream if they aren't on you constantly. and the one I had loved me allot but would litterly attack anyone else. I have a daughter and everytime she came into the diningroom where the bird was the bird would attack her and take chunks out of her arms. I also have other birds and he would also try to attack them if he got the chance. I couldn't keep him because of the danger he was putting my family members in. I would stick to a African Grey if I where you they are much more emotionally stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I am one of those who cuddle the Cockatoos every time I see them and would love to have one but I know they are probably the most needy bird out there. They are like a 2 yr old having a tantrum when they don't get their way. The screams are deafening. They are even more (if possible) prone to plucking than Greys are.<br><br>Post edited by: Char, at: 2009/02/11 15:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't know about Too's, but I do recognize a significant differnce between my CAG Bella and my conure Jiggy in terms of when they want something - Jiggy will just screech hsi little brains out. Bella on the other hand actually tells me what she wants. If she wants me to pick her up for snuggles she lifts her little foot and says "up, up up, step up". If I try to adjust one of her feathers or get something off them, she says "ah! No! shhhhhtt!! GO!", if she wants to taste what I am eating or drinking she starts saying "Look! Look! look!!!" Maybe Jiggy has different screeches for different things, but to me they all sound like a screech :laugh: I think I prefer Bella's way! Cheers! Terri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You don't even have the right amount of time for a grey, let alone a cockatoo. They need 3 times the attention that a grey or amazon would need and if they don't get it not only will they make your life miserable but your neighbors miserable too. Think Jet engines...thats how loud they can get. Plus, without proper training and handling the larger cockatoos like the Umbrellas, Moluccans, and Greater Sulfurs will turn into pitbulls and bite whoever they are not happy with, and their bite is probably the worst of all the parrots. Baby cockatoos love the cuddling but it is a VERY bad idea to touch them under the wings and back once they get a little older...it's basicly sexual play to them. I get bit at work by cockatoos because customers will walk in and the first thing they do it start stroking the "hot zones" and get them fired up. When they stop the cockatoos get frustrated and start screaming and because we know that they are no longer safe for a customer to hold we have to take them off the floor and sure enough we take the heat and get bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 DAVIDH: I must say, that I DISAGREE with so much of what you say, but I won't debate it here with you. You are WRONG with many of your statements on your reply. Yes, there are some cases as you state in your blog, but it is not the "norm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleA Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well would there be any difference if I got maybe a 2 year old cockatoo instead? One that it's previous owner just had to give up? My parents would always be around if I wasn't, and it would be with me 24 7. So I'm still trying to decide. I love how sweet cockatoos are and how gorgeous they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallas Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Cockatoos really need A LOT of attention or them will scream. I have not heard a bird as loud as a moloucan scream. I have a website for you... http://www.mytoos.com/main.shtml check that out, it gives some decent information. I am so happy with my choice on an African Grey. Mine are not very loud at all. My Sun Conures put them to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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