Seizures

[matt314159]

Hey, everyone...I hate to be one of those 'friends' who abandons you for long periods of time and then comes back only when they need something, but....

 

My 10 year old TAG Maggie, who we adopted back in july, has had three seizures in the last month. We caught the tail end of the first one, thought she might have just fallen and stunned herself...the second seizure a week to 10 days later, we realized what the first one must have been, and decided to take her to the vet as soon as I had a day off, and three days later she had the third seizure.

 

here's a direct copy and paste of the notes I typed out (for myself, to help me remember) to describe to the avian vet after the second seizure

• Seems to happen at night (all three times, between 10pm and midnight)

 

Sequence of events

• Gives a yelp

• 1 time fell off perch, 2nd time stayed on perch, 3rd time fell

• Leans to right side, left leg out, foot balled up like cramp

• head twitch

• some grunting sounds occasionally

• rapid eye blinking

 

When this happens, I remove her from cage, cradle her...seizure lasts ~3 minutes, then twitch stops, but cannot stand or balance, still leans to one side, seems dazed. After about 5-10 more minutes, can stand, but still looks dazed, feels unsteady, keep on cuddling her and talking softly. After another 10-15 minutes, begins to come around, eyes look more aware, she'll fluff and shake and stand up straight, looks lucid but tired....a few more minutes and she is back to normal, just tired looking.

 

After a that I put her back in cage and keep an eye on her for the next hour or two, then cover her and turn out lights.

 

The next day you'd never know she had any problems at all.

I did find this link indicating there's a good chance it's low calcium: http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/seizures.html

 

While I feel her diet is adequate (we have a 3 year old CAG on the same regimen and she's fine), I wouldn't rule it out. She eats a seed mix that's the "house blend" of Bracken's Bird Farm in Redlands, CA (for any of you locals)...when we first got Ponti (our CAG) back in 2006, that was what was recommended if we didn't want to go the pellet route. In addition, at least three times a week they each get a bowl of fresh fruits and veggies, including just about everything under the sun...brocoli, carrots, boc choi (probably slaughtered the spelling on that) corn, sweet potato (maggie's favorite), to name just a few, and different types of fruit, usually a slice of apple, couple of strawberry halves, kiwi, grapes, etcetera. Usually a higher proportion of veggies than fruits though. Additionally we give them cooked pasta, non-salted crackers, little bits of this and that (whatever we're eating in front of them...bread, tortilla, that sort of thing). Maggie also loves string cheese and chicken (kind of feel like I'm in Silence of the Fowl when I give her that though)

 

So that's the diet...

 

Anyway today I took her to Dr. Sigdestad at loma linda animal hospital, who has served us well in the past. He came highly recommended from Bracken's bird farm, as he is the vet who attends to all their birds, as well as birds from some of the local chain pet stores, according to the clerk at Bracken's. We've been happy with him, he doesn't have the best bedside manner, but, quite frankly I am not paying him to talk baby talk to my animals.

 

But I digress. Dr. Sig gave me the choice of two blood panels, a simple panel for $99 that he said would tell me "90% of everything you need to know", and a complete panel that checks for a laundry list of diseases, includes a stool sample, the works...for $299.

 

Since I got maggie from a home that was neglectful and uncaring at best, abusive at worst (her owner died and so the owner's roommate put her on craigslist for $350...and kept her cage outside on their back porch day and night, in July in southern california, where temps get to 100+ during the day, in the shade...but again I digress) Since I did not know maggie's history when I got her, other than that she's ten years old, I decided it wouldn't hurt to do the full panel, to be on the safe side.

 

he said the initial results (the equivalent of the first $99 workup) would be available around noon tomorrow, to call in and have them go over that with me, and in a couple weeks they'll get the advanced panel back from the lab...I guess they do it through the mail.

 

Is anybody still following this post, I just realized I'm writing a novel here, but I want to be as thorough as possible....

 

At any rate, i guess that's abuot as detailed a description of the situation as I can get right now.

 

Is there anything else I should be doing at this point? I've been giving her extra calcium-enriched foods, like string-cheese, cottage cheese, a cuddlebone, that she doesn't seem particularly fond of...brocoli...which again, she usually pitches out of her food dish first thing. I also padded her cage with towels, just like I do with Ponti (who has a bad foot who is exceptionally uncoordinated, and tends to fall a lot). So we're up from two laundry loads of towels per week to three now.

 

Anything else? Any advice?

 

The first link I posted said not to let a blood panel showing sufficient calcium rule out hypocalcemia, because the levels tend to fluctuate with their circadian rhythm, which to me almost seems to make sense considering all three seizures (that we've caught...have there been more that we didn't catch?) happened late evening, between 10pm and 12am...

 

If you've made it this far, I owe you a debt of gratitude, if you've got any suggestions for me, I'm all ears, and you have my many thanks in advance.

 

here's a picture of maggie. I've only had her for six months and I don't know what i'd do without her!

 

<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/01/31 11:12

[matt314159]

Also, here's an informative read that I just found here:

 

This isn't one of the easiest issues in our birds

. A seizure is caused by a paroxysmal, uncontrolled transient electrical discharge in the brain.

 

African Greys are one of the most frequently reported birds that have such seizures, often due to hypocalcemia . Your vet needs to get a blood chemistry, but be forewarned, these are not absolute. A normal range result doesn't mean this isn't the problem, it may just mean that another blood chem. needs to be run at a different time of day (even the same day).

 

Increasing calcium levels is rarely a bad idea, so be sure plenty of fresh cuttlebone is in the cage. Regularly scrape the cuttlebone to reveal a fresh under layer and replace as necessary with new. Even if you don't think your bird is using it, be sure it's there. I keep it near the fresh food dish so they have an option for wiping their beaks off after eating some oatmeal or bean medley (they love it, but look like toddlers with goo all over their faces afterward).

 

Also, increasing the calcium rich foods they eat is helpful, from giving them a sip of calcium enriched orange juice (all natural, organic please) once a day to plenty of dark green, leafy vegetables and cruciferous options like broccoli and Brussels spouts are healthy. Cottage cheese, yogurt, almonds or even a regular Tums are more choices.

 

Some recommendations are to put calcium supplements in water; however, most birds won't drink it and the health threat of going without water is just another problem added to one you have already.

 

With this said, it's important to note that a calcium deficiency is, by itself, not likely to be the only causation. Something is causing the calcium deficiency, usually problems with their uropygial gland, parathyroid and more.

 

In order to fully utilize the calcium they get in their healthy diet, a bird needs regular exposure to ultraviolet light (sun light), just like we humans do.

 

Some birds will have squamous metaplasia of the uropygial gland (it doesn't function properly) and it contributes to hypovitaminosis A. In this case a beta carotene treatment may be prudent. A regular low dose beta-carotene capsule cut open and squeezed onto a bird treat or if your bird is cooperative, directly into their mouth, is converted to vitamin A without building up in their system.

 

What I can't stress enough though is that self-medicating a bird is never, ever a good idea and can delay proper treatment if it's something else.

 

Also to be considered and ruled out are: central nervous system diseases such as a brain tumor or infection, head trauma, hyperthermia, liver disease, metabolic disturbances (hypocalcemia, hyperglycemia) and toxicity from lead, zinc, aflatoxins and certain insecticides.

 

If no cause is found after a thorough evaluation, the bird is said to have idiopathic epilepsy.

 

Linda Pesek, DVM/Avian Board Certified is quoted: "A bird that seizures should have a thorough physical examination, radiographs, hematology and blood chemistry. A complete blood count will reveal whether anemia, inflammation or infection is present. Blood chemistries provide an indication of liver and kidney function and the electrolyte status of the patient. A radiograph may demonstrate the presence of metallic densities in the gastrointestinal tract. Although one cannot rule out the presence of lead or zinc toxicity if no metallic densities are present, finding them leads support to the possibility of heavy metal poisoning as the cause of the seizures. Definitive diagnosis is based upon the presence of toxic levels of lead and zinc in the blood."

 

In addition to a baseline complete blood count and chemistry, certain infectious diseases such as chlamydia, polyoma and proventricular dilitation should be ruled out if possible

 

I can't stress enough that a professional evaluation is necessary - and it must be with an avian vet or other well experienced vet who sees birds.

 

There is more info about seizures in our companion birds here:

 

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww56eiv.htm

 

With these considerations (feel free to print them out and share with your vet) hopefully you can get to the bottom of the problem quickly and without putting either you or your companion through too much stress.

That seemed to do a good job of putting into laymen's terms what the first link to the exoticpetvet webpage was trying to explain.

 

I thought I would post it here so as to 1) possibly become a reference to others who happen by here, and 2) have somebody "in the know" glance over it and make sure there's nothing stupid in there that I don't know about. But it seemed to be well-articulated and written by someone with good knowledge of this problem.<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/01/31 11:44

[matt314159]

Sorry for the triple-posting, I hope y'all don't mind...

 

So from this I'm getting the feeling I should also get the birds a full-spectrum lamp to go by their cages for a few hours a day, to help with D3 absorption which helps with calcium absorption....this is really independent of the seizures in question, but a factor for their overall health and well-being...the living room is well-lit, but the windows I take it block both the UVA and UVB rays because they're probalby treated.

 

Any ideas as to a specific model or style of lamp I should get?

 

Any other things I should be thinking about? I feel like by this time I might already have my bases covered, I'd just like to get second, third, and fourth opinions, and see what everyone's advice is.

 

**edit..it just dawened on my that they probably make full-spectrum CFL light bulbs, I will ahve to look into that. Maybe we can just swap out the bulbs in the two lamps in the living room, so they can get a good dose every evening...<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/01/31 12:18

[she]

Hi sorry you are having problems with maggie.Calcium deficiancy is a common but by no means the only cause of seizures in greys.You made the right decision regarding the blood tests.I hope they can give you the cause of the problem.The full spectrum lighting is a good idea and cant do any harm.

 

My old tiel had seizures but they did not appear to follow the same pattern as your grey. She would just go very floppy or fall to the floor and after about 30 seconds would be completely unconcious and thrashing about on her side and back. after a few mins she would come round but be very dazed and unsteady for a few hours.one of her seizures went on for about 5 mins.I had the full range of blood work on her but in her case it was irreversible kidney and liver problems.The seizures probabley being caused by a build up of toxins.

 

Please let us know the results of the tests and how Maggie is getting on.In the meantime keep her warm and tempt her to eat with her favourite treats and make sure she is drinking.Be guided by your vet on any change to her diet.It is also a good idea you had to place a towel on the base of the cage.Good luck

[judygram]

I am so sorry you are having problems with Maggie but it sounds like you are doing exactly what is needed to get her the help necessary to put an end to these seizures. I can't imagine what you must be going thru when she does this but I hope the vet finds the cause and helps put an end to this nightmare for you.

 

It looks like you have done some research on this subject and are doing what you can to help Maggie, you are a very caring and loving father to her. Please keep us informed as to what you find out from her tests and how she is doing.

 

I will scold you a little for being away so long but I know how life can keep you very busy but now that Maggie is having seizures please don't abandon us now as we all care about you and Maggie and want to know how you are doing from time to time.

[Luvparrots]

Matt, I am so sorry Maggie is having problems. You have done a lot of research and are doing everything you can. I hope the full spectrum light helps and that the full blood work testing provides the answers you need to find the help Maggie needs. Maggie is so adorable in her picture. She is very lucky to have found such a loving companion and my thoughts and prayers go out for her full recovery. God bless her heart and God bless you.

[LisaM]

Hi Matt - sorry to hear all that you're going through. That must be pretty scary. It would be for me! I hope you can at least get a root cause so you have something to work with and treat! Please keep us posted as you hear!

 

As far as lights go, there is still debate over the benefits but I certainly haven't seen anything that would claim they could cause harm so at the worst they are "neutral".

 

You are correct that regular windows filter out the necessary UV(B I think) rays.

 

I have the Ott Lite, which is a full-spectrum and you can get them at any craft store (they're great for people who do fine needlework, etc, apparently). My vet recommends I have them on 2 hrs/day so that's what I do. They are pricey, but in my opinion worth it.

 

There are certainly others out there also. I think if you do a search on the forum under "lighting" or "UVB" you'll come across some others and some great information/debate about this.

 

Lisa

[danmcq]

Hi Matt,

 

I am sorry to hear your TAG is having seizures.

 

The blood panel you had done should give some good baseline information on where Maggie stands in regards all the vitamin and mineral levels. Also, if some other issue exists such as an organ disease or abnormality.

 

The problem wit a seed diet, regardless of the "Mix", is it and all veggies and fruit eaten provide no vitamin D3 which is necessary in a bird for calcium absorption.

 

There are only two ways to get D3 into your bird. Sunlight, Pellets such as Harrison's, zupreem etc. or full spectrum lighting that includes the UVB spectrum for hours each day.

 

In regards putting CFL's in your lamp stands, those are too weak to ever reach your Grey with any dose of UVB. Depending on the Lamp manufacturer and percent of UVB the lamp emits will dictate what the maximum distance from your bird would be to obtain any UVB at all. This is normally a distance of 12 to 24 maximum distance to obtain any benefit.

 

I designed my own lighting system with 2 24" 36 watt fluorescent tubes that emit a total of 76 watts with 8 % UVB.

 

It is a proven fact that Full Spectrum Lighting with UVB is necessary for you bird to produce D3 if no pellets and no full sunshine are given to them. I only use the Lamps when it's winter time due to the birds being kept in the house and receiving no true sunlight. IN the summer, they go outside for 2 to 4 hours almost everyday.

 

The only way to ensure your birdy is getting all the necessary vitamins and minerals is to have them eating atleast an amount of pellets that would equal about a 1/4 of it's entire food consumption each day at a bare minimum.

 

I do hope your vet gets to the bottom of this issue quickly and helps you get your much loved Maggie on the correct path for her overcoming these seizures.

 

One thing is certain. The seizures could be caused by issues other than a vitamin or mineral deficiency.

 

Looking forward to hearing what the results are and what type of treatment plan the vet recommends.

[matt314159]

wow, thanks all for the kind words and helpful tips and hints, that means a lot to me.

 

will consider trying to get maggie onto a pelleted diet (and maybe ponti too, if she'll cooperate this time around)...when we originally got ponti, we tried to get her onto pellets, but after a couple months, just gave up. No matter how we blended it with her current food and tried to trick her into accidentally eating the pellets, she just constantly ate around them. When we got maggie, we just put her on the same diet as ponti.

 

Any comments one way or another on the tums supplementation idea? I have seen that referenced in a few of the guides (what did they say, 1/2 tab, every other day at most, something like that), but then another bird forum that came up in a google search, the members took up torches and mobbed up against the person who asked the question, as if that was just the stupidest thing they'd ever heard.

 

So I guess the CFL idea is out, I was thinking that while it might be less output, they'd be exposed to it for 5-6 hours per evening, so it might do some good, but if it won't do anything, then I won't bother with that.

 

What do you recommend if i want to go with an off-the-shelf full spectrum light? Will that ott light that lisa mentioned be the best or should I look at something else? And I guess I have to just put it right by their cage, pointed directly in on them?

 

let's see, I guess those are my only continuing questions right now, I really appreciate all the responses...I checked this thread this morning thinking maybe ONE of you would have replied~!

[judygram]

Matt, have you tried soaking some pellets in some apple juice or some other liquid to soften them and maybe she will eat some that way, we recommend that for baby greys to get them to try pellets but it is worth a try with an older bird, just a suggestion. Also if there are any cooked foods she will eat like some scrambled eggs you could grind up some pellets and mix it in with it, there are many ways you could get some pellets into her.

 

I can't comment on the Tums idea, you would have to consult your avian vet on that or maybe some of the other more knowledgeable members will know.

 

There are full spectrum lighting available just for birds and some I have seen is made to fit the top of the cage but they might be pricey but just google full spectrum avian lighting and you should find it.

 

Matt you will find this is a busy forum, if you post a question you will most likely get a response very quickly, sometimes in just a few moments as some of us fairly live on this forum and we do care about our birds and each other, you are in good company as you are family now.

 

Let us know what you find out about Maggie.

[matt314159]

Yeah judy come to think of it, both my greys love oatmeal and scrambled eggs, so that could be a way to slip it in to them. I don't usually give them a whole dish of it or anything, usually it mostly is whatever we're eating at the time, if we're having eggs, I'll give them each a tablespoon full or so, same with oatmeal. I wonder if I should be giving them bigger helpings of that kind of stuff. They go nuts over cooked pasta, I take a little plate and put 10 or 12 noodles on each one before we mix the sauce in, and they go bananas. That might be an option too. The apple juice is also a great idea to get them used to eating the pellets.

 

THey always say when there's a will there's a way, i'm just afraid my greys' wills are stronger than mine!

[danmcq]

Hi Matt,

 

Judy gave some great ideas on getting the pellets into your Greys with out them knowing.

 

Also, try removing the seeds from the cages in the morning and only leave the pellets for them to eat during the day while your at work. They will start eating them when they get hungry. You can then give them some of the seed mix at night, but only a few tablespoons full, not a bowl full.

 

The avian lighting comes in many different styles and fixtures that will meet your particular needs in regards being able to position it properly close to the cage so they get maximum exposure.

 

Here are a few links on the lights\stands:

 

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/Search.php?SearchID=2&DatabaseID=2&Keywords=Lighting&Heading=Avian&Search.x=13&Search.y=16

 

http://www.parrot-and-conure-world.com/full-spectrum-light-for-birds.html

 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=5059+5690

[Dave007]

First, you'll need to find out if your bird has idiopathic epilepsy. Your vet is supposed to tell you about that. If he doesn't you'll have to ask him. That type of epilepsy is the same that human epileptics are afflicted with. They'll always be epileptic, are treated with drugs and after testing many drugs, a combonation is finally found which lessens seizures. Those drugs aren't a cure though. There's no known cause for why this happens except for people who've had head trauma. The best way to find out about idiopathic epilepsy is to have spoken to the previous owner but that was difficult but if it's possible you should should do that.

One thing you should stop is the string cheese, cottage cheese, or any other dairy product that's white in color. It's not doing your bird any good nor is it incresing any calcium levels. That type of calcium isn't being taken in by the bird. If you're keeping your bird in extremely hot weather be it in or out of the sun, that must be stopped. A grey can adapt to cool weather as opposed to hot weather. A cuttlebone won't do any good because the bird isn't eating it. That should be replaced by a mineral block which is thicker, harder and tastier than cuttlebone. For some birds, a lack of VIT A can cause problems such a liver problems and for other birds, seizures and for other birds, very loose droppings.. The same thing applies to a lack of VIT E. You should stop with the tortilla and any excess amount of fruit which doesn't supply a bird with much vitamin values. Concerning chicken, it's the bones of the chicken that supply calcium, not the chicken.

Concerning frequency of seizures, just like a person, a number of seizures can occur within a short amount of time and then go away for a very long time and then come back with only one short seizure. There's no regularity concerning seizures.

All other testing and results need to come from your vet and if he's a good vet, he'll search the whole scope concerning seizures. Seizures aren't usually fatal to a bird nor do they last a long time. There is an after effect which is normal and the bird is usually quiet for a while. After going through that after effect, the bird usually goes back to what it normally does.

Basically, these are some things about seizures that I'm very familiar with but I won't say anything about other results that your vet should be giving you. That's between you and him. If he suggests more tests, you'll need to get them done.

[matt314159]

Thanks Dave, The doctor did mention idiopathic epilepsy, but he wanted to rule out any other causes first, otherwise you're simply masking a symptom to a potentially bigger problem, so he's done his due dilligence in that regard. I called today about the blood panel, and the receptionist said the first round of results are in, took my number, and said the doctor would call me back to go over them.

 

Are you sure about the cheese and cottage cheese? Several guides I've read mention those things specifically by name. This is the problem I run into , is how do I know what information to trust on the internet.

 

from the exoticpetvet article I linked to in the first post:

If a grey is feather picking, or is clumsy, or has had a seizure, try treating with calcium in the drinking water (Neo-CalgluconTM Sanzoz, calcium glubionate 23 mg/30 ml drinking water or 23 mg/kg PO q24h), supplementing with TumsTM (calcium carbonate) and having the owner offer more high calcium food (cottage cheese, cheese, yogurt and almonds).

 

If it's not going to do any HARM, i'll keep giving it to them, if it is bad for them, then I'll stop...

 

They're not in a hot room or anything, I'd say even on a hot day in the summer we never let it get hotter than 80 degrees in the house, usually 75 or so...during the winter, around 70-71 degrees.

 

the fruit is more or less a treat for them, I'd say their fruit and veggie bowls consist of 2/3 veggies, and 1/3 fruit, but I can cut back on the fruit portion if that's still too much. Tortilla, tht kind of thing, is just another occasional treat, if they see me eating a burrito, I'll tear off a bit of tortilla (the size of a quarter maybe) and pass it through the cage, which they get all excited about.

 

In a bit when I get back home I'll post a picture of he seed mix for review too, I think it's a healthy blend but I"m no expert. I think it also has some pellets in it, but it's not a high percentage.

 

Anyway tha's it for now, and again and as always, thanks!

[Dave007]

Yes, I'm positive about any white dairy product. It does your bird no good whatsoever. Lets say that you wanted to give your bird a dairy product--that product should be hard brick cheddar cheese--1 in. square, 1/8 in. thick--that can be given every 2 weeks or longer. I have no idea what guides you've been reading but whoever recommends white dairy products needs to get their facts straight. Loads of people here can tell you about white dairy products.

""80 degrees in the house, usually 75 or so...during the winter, around 70-71 degrees""

80 degrees is too hot and will make the bird molt excessively. 71/72 should be the hottest. 67 to 70 is the ideal temp.

Tortilla has salt in it even though you can't taste it--Salt is no good for greys.

""is how do I know what information to trust on the internet.""""

Well, spend more time here and you'll see and hear from people who've dealt with similar situations on a constant basis and the personalized methods they've done to help those situations. General guides are just that--general guides which aren't focused on specific birds, especially those that are having health problems. You'll have to get ready for the possibility that your bird has epilepsy and that's not unusual. Yopu should ask your vet about how erractic the frequency of seizures are.

Yogurt yes in limited amounts. Yogurt is given and has to do with bacteria, not calcium. Yogurt supplies good bacteria to the system.

Almonds yes-- it provides Vit A. Almonds don't contain any calcium.

Tums--that's a new one especially since Tums contain mass amounts of chemicals that are for gastric problems, heartburn, acid reflux. This is the first time I've ever heard it recommended as a way to gain calcium and that also applies to people.

Pellets--there are methods to get a bird to eat pellets but it's a pain in the ass for a person to go through these methods. I can giver you one but stay with this subject first then come back and people will talk about feeding methods, tricks, results etc

 

PS--it's the bones that contain the marrow which is the best part for a bird. The chicken has no marrow is fine to eat but in your situation, you're looking to increase calcium which is only in the bones.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/01/31 22:23

[matt314159]

I have no idea what guides you've been reading but whoever recommends white dairy products needs to get their facts straight.

this article, was the main one, which had the quote from my last post. It seemed very authoritative, and was targeted directly at seizures in African Greys, it wasn't generic at all.

 

Digging a little further into the cottage cheese thing, from a couple of quick searches, it looks like it provides more protein than calcium...I don't think I've come across anything that says it's harmful if given in small amounts. Is it?

 

...I'll run these questions by Dr. Sig, don't get me wrong, I'm not going to do anything irresponsible. As I have time i'll be searching as much as possible, but if there are any threads you remember offhand that discuss stuff like white dairy, those would be appreciated.

 

71/72 should be the hottest, 67 to 70 is the ideal temp

...for an equatorial bird? We've kept our house in the 75-80 degree range during the summer for the three years we've had ponti and she doesn't mind a bit. Neither does maggie, for that matter, no excessive molting, or anything like that. Most everything I've read is that they'll pretty much adapt. If you're comfortable, they'll be alright too.<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/01/31 23:43

[matt314159]

Okay just talked to the Doc, you're right, he recommended the same thing as you, hard cheddar cheese, though he still didn't outright say the other stuff was harmful...

 

but anyway, he said all the levels look relatively normal, he doesn't think it's hypocalcemia, and he's leaning toward idiopathic epilepsy. Since I didn't write any of the values down (he rattled them off pretty quickly, I don't have them at the moment, but I did call back and ask the receptionist to fax me the results, which I'll post here as soon as I can.

 

He said it's up to me, but he'll get the rest of the results back, in a couple weeks, but he would recommend some phenobarbitol (spelling) for anti-seizure purposes, to suppress symptoms.

 

I'll post back when i have more informaiton.

[judygram]

The white cheeses are not harmful, its just that they will add no nutrients to your grey's diet especially concerning the addition of calcuim rich foods and Dave is pretty much right on everything he gave you advice on as I trust Dave to give correct information.

 

So it does look like Maggie has the idiopathic epilepsy, I hope whatever regimen your avian vet puts her on will help her lead a normal life.

 

Please keep us informed of whatever you find out and keep your chin up, she should do ok.

[matt314159]

here are the results, the fax just came through.

 

 

he said the CPK levels were probably as a result of the seizures, but that everything else was close enough to normal to be confident it wasn't the cause of any seizures.

 

I didn't ask about the tums, decided to just drop that one altogether, and I didn't remember to ask about the temperature greys should be at...71-72 just seems kind of on the low side of things. 90% of the time in the summer, our house is between 75 and 78 degrees. Quite frankly, living in the desert of southern california, that's about all we can afford, 71 would cost a fortune.

 

I think I do plan on getting a couple full spectrum lights, too.

 

Also, I think maybe I should look at getting maggie a new cage, her current one is rather on the tall and narrow side, but I'm thinking if I can find something wider and shorter that might help her not have so far to fall if/when she has more seizures...I can jsut see her having one while she's hanging upside down playing with a toy and landing on her head...

 

I think I might also start taking maggie to bed in her travel cage and into the spare bedroom to sleep at night along with ponti (who already sleeps in her own travel cage because she falls a lot due to her bad foot). Ponti loves the routine, but if it doesn't freak maggie out to much, I might try to ease her into it as well. Usually somebody's up with the tv on in the living room until well past midnight, with various lights on, and even though we cover her cage, I think her sleep would be much healthier if she can get a nice quiet dark place to sleep like ponti does.

 

Sorry if I ever came across as a little grumpy/contrary, processing the information that my baby might have epilepsy is kind of upsetting. I just want to do everything in my power to do right by maggie, she deserves it. Such a sweet little baby. She loves getting hugs...when I take her out of her cage, I bring her close to my chest, and put my hand gently on her back and snuggle my face down to her, and she says, in the sweetest cooing little voice, "ohhhhh"...

 

Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/02/01 01:46<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/02/01 01:56

[danmcq]

Thats good news on the test results Matt. Thanks for posting them.

 

Adding full-spectrum lighting would certainly help with any D3 production and they also assist in maintaining a normalized circadian clock within their system that as with humans has a huge effect on overall health. Molts are actually affected by the hours of Daylight they receive as is hormone production etc.

 

In regards temperature for your Grey. The Congo, as you said is an equatorial region in Africa. The present temperature is 85 with a humidity of 44% today in February! This is just one region more westward towards Cameroon. The link to this weather is http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/64210.html

 

Also, here is a history section maintain on this site which I selected June 2008 for what the normal and record temperatures were : http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/FZAA/2008/6/1/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

As you can see, these Greys live in a pretty hot and humid environment in the wild.

 

Now in regards what we provide to our Greys in a human environments. I believe the key is just maintaining a normalized temperature range in the summer and winter in our homes that of course mimic slightly the shifts in temperature outside.

 

For example, in our home the temperature in the summer is maintained between 78 and 82 inside during the day and dropped down to 72 at night for a fairly comfortable sleeping temperature. In the winter, we keep our home at 73 in the day and lower to 68 at night.

 

I am of course certain that this varies from home to home depending on the region of the US people live in.

 

These Parrots are very adaptable and can actually adapt very well to the extreme swings of summer to winter temperatures living outside in Aviaries that go from a high of 100 in summer to a low of freezing in the winter. You wil often find that Breeders have their aviaries outdoors, covered of course but not heated or air conditioned and the Parrots thrive.

 

I do hope you r vet has an answer and treatment soon to get your much loved TAG back to normal. :-)

[judygram]

Thanks Matt for sharing the tests results with us and I know it has not been easy for you since Maggie has started having seizures, I think you have handled it better than I would have, I would be freaking out so your emotions are understandable.

 

I think that would be a wise choice to get a different cage, one that is wider but shorter so she has less distance to fall if she is on the highest level and has one and you may think about putting some padding down with some newspapers on top to soften the fall if and when she does have another seizure.

 

Maggie does sound like a very sweet and loving grey and I think she knows you are doing all you can for her to lead a normal greyt life.

 

Please keep us informed of any new findings Matt.

[matt314159]

Thanks...you're right it does need padding, but for me that almost goes without saying, because we have padded ponti's cage for the last three years. I guess that seemed so "normal" to me I forgot to mention it.

 

Though you gave me the brilliant idea of putting paper on top of that to reduce the laundry loads! We used to just change the towels out every couple of days and wash them.

 

We even had to take our dryer apart a few months ago because enough seeds had gotten into places wher they shouldn't and got things jammed up. How there remained seeds in the towels AFTER being shaken out, and AFTER being WASHED, I'll never know, but such was the case. Our washer seems to be handling the towels much better than our dryer.

 

Maggie is about the sweetest parrot I've ever met. The only time she will bite me is when I've got ponti on me too, because she's jealous....Other than that, she has NEVER bitten me, even, for instance, at the vet friday when I had to help hold her still, pinned upside down on the examination table screaming when the Dr. drew blood from under her wing...she never bit me...screamed bloody murder, but didn't bite. It amazes me. In fact, if this were an episode of "House, M.D. - Avian Edition" I'd see the lack of biting to be a symptom and not just the fact that she's a sweet bird...<br><br>Post edited by: matt314159, at: 2009/02/01 22:35