To clip or not to clip: that is the question

[DavidH]

I really am undecided about clipping Shanti's flight feathers. Part of me says yes, part of me says no.

 

Shanti is almost 8 months old and has never flown -- was clipped early by the breeder.

 

On the one hand, I find it hard to accept preventing a bird from flight. On the other hand, I recognize the risks of flight, and am not sure flying is in Shanti's best interests in terms of safety, security and quality of life.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot here, and I don't expect anyone to come up with THE answer, but I'd like to hear some views.

 

Thanks,

David

[she]

David, as you say this is a topic that has come up many times. At the end of the day it is a decision you must make on your own personal situation and beliefs.I believe it is without doubt best to leave a bird flighted,but I had to have my tiel clipped because not being the sharpest knife in the block he insisted on flying over to my grey,a disaster sure to happen.My grey is not clipped and yes it is hard work and at times frustrating having to retrieve him from places he is not allowed.I have taught him some flight comands,on the cage,come,off there, he is pretty good at them but only when he wants to.I have an outside aviery where the birds can spend time in the nice weather,one day the grey the next the tiel.So summer time is not a problem for me.By the time the nice weather is hear Cracker the tiel will be fully flighted,infact he can fly everywhere now and I am trying to decide to have him clipped again.The thing I will say is that if you do clip make sure an avian vet does it as I have heared some horror stories relating to bad clips. Good luck making your decision Sheila<br><br>Post edited by: she, at: 2009/01/19 12:13

[Mistyparrot]

There is little doubt that learning to fly is an essential part of any normally flighted birds development. This certainly includes African Greys. Personally I would condemn any breeder who clips their birds. I suspect they do it to make the birds more dependent on their humans. If so, this is an entirely mistaken and unnecessary practice and it is likely to lead to serious psychological problems such as feather plucking and other phobic behaviors. On the other hand not every clipped bird will be unable to cope. I find it remarkable how pet animals are often able to manage with quite severe physical disabilities. My father once owned a cat that had no tail, three legs and one eye and yet it was fully agile and a most accomplished hunter. Even bringing home rabbits not much smaller than itself.

But I don't think that is a good reason to deliberately cripple a parrot.

An un-flighted bird can be at risk from hard landings

as it will be unable to fly down and land properly or successfully aviod walls or other obstacles. The trouble is, a clipped bird will still try to fly especially if startled.

It is also true that a flighted bird may fly off but it should not be hard to take sensible precautions to prevent this from happening. A flighted bird can be trained to return on recall. Of course everybody's situation is different and having children running in and out for instance could pose a problem.

But then out of cage time should always be properly supervised (as should the birds ).

On the other hand a flighted bird can be a joy to live with. I am fortunate because I am able to give my Misty maximun out of cage time. He is fully flighted and has several permitted perches around my apartment. He has learned not to land where he is not supposed to. Watching him fly, hover and maneuver is a real treat. He is happy, confident and playful. He has learned to fly to me and to stay on command.

Often when he flies around he says "Fly fly" or 'Fly baby". This a legacy from his early flight training with me. I believe the cons far outweigh the pros as far as clipping goes. After all the total body design of African Greys is all about flying. Let them be birds.

 

My 2 p©

 

 

Steve n Misty

[danmcq]

Hello David,

 

This normally always boils down to what the owner perceives as a threat to the bird. Normally, the threats are not real. The owner must just ensure they do all their checks and balances. Which becomes just an automatic response you don't think about anymore.

 

The real question, I would think. Is what is best for the bird mentally and physically?

 

Birds were all evolved to fly and they have special breathing and cardiovascular systems designed just for that. Not getting the workout from flying about and exercising obviously is detrimental to their life span and over all health.

 

Flying gives them great coordination and self confidence. It also protects them from the dangers encountered when having to walk on the floor, taking a slip and crashing to the floor, getting stepped on etc. The list just goes on and on.

 

I have guests and small children that run in and out of the house all the time. It is simply a matter of "Training" those guests and children to be careful when opening a door and to watch and close it quickly. Although I must say, our birds do not target an open door as a place to fly to. They target my wife or myself. So we are the ones that need to always pay close attention to the fact of whether or not one of the birds are going to try and hitch a shoulder ride outside when they see we are going out. Most times, they always give it a shot. However, they have learned the "Stay" command fairly well, but their are times they will try anyway. We just put up our arm/hand in front of us and say "Stay" and they just bank and land on the closest perching area knowing they do not have a shot at the target, namely the shoulder.

 

If nothing else, I would strongly encourage you to allow him to become fully flighted so he can fledge and build up his coordination and confidence. Then make a decision if you can live with him flighted. You really never know unless you at least try. :-)

[Irishchicky]

Im in the same position as you. My grey was clipped when I adopted her. Shes molting now so her flight feather will be back soon.

 

Im still undecided as what to do

[LisaM]

I am one who has their wings trimmed in the spring/summer but let them grow out more in the wintertime. Even when trimmed they are able to "coast" down and it takes them 10-15 feet to get to the floor.

 

As your Shanti hasn't ever learned to fly, in my opinion I think it would be best if you at least let her feathers come in and learn how to fly. You will be able to make a good assessment of the risks and whether you feel you can mitigate them to the point where you are comfortable letting her stay flighted always.

 

I can say that I struggle with this decision every spring as it is quite amazing for them to experience what they were meant to do.

 

Look through other threads on this topic and you will get many, many views/opinions and situations appropriate for each.

 

For instance, this is our family room and you can see I have a hard time getting people to even close the screens on the other side of the sliding doors (even when I charge the offenders $1 if caught):

 

 

Lisa

[Gryphon]

Gryphon had a very bad clip when he came to us at 18 mo. I also suspect he was never allowed to properly fledge by his breeder. Our house is very old and we have 6 leaded glass windows which pose a threat. Plus I am super paranoid about losing a parrot. It is my worst nightmare.

 

Soooo, after much deliberation, we've decided to let the feathers come in. It will mean careful oversight, and I am still open to a (modest) clip if the risk outweighs the reward, but for now I would rather take on added responsibility and vigilance and let him have his wings.

 

P.S. David I am a fan of your blog. And LisaM I am a fan of your sunroom.

[LisaM]

I too started reading your blog David. It's interesting, touching and educational. The pictures and video clips are fun.

 

Thanks Gryphon. It was a 2004 addition to the house (as the birds/aquariums took over and redefined the "living" room). Inspired by my dad's house in the Florida Keys (but a little different view ).

 

Lisa

[Titch]

LisaM, Your living room looks amazing!!

 

Can I come and live with you :lol:

[casper]

Is it not confusing to the bird if for part of the year they are fully flighted then the next they are clipped?

 

David, it will be your decision wether you clip or not, weigh up the pros and cons and do what is right for you and your bird.

 

I have two which are fully flighted and one who lost his flights in an earthquake which have still not grown back. He lands heavy when he is startled and it is so scary!

 

Like Dan said you can train people when you have fully flighted birds. Its just getting into a routine.

 

If you decide to clip just make sure its done by an experienced Avian vet.

 

Caroline.<br><br>Post edited by: casper, at: 2009/01/19 21:42

[LisaM]

Thanks Titch! Doesn't look quite as "tropical" in the middle of winter though!

 

Caroline - I though it might be but they seem to adjust to it fine. They do get a lighter trim so that they coast down 10-15 feet vs drop to the ground. They can even make it to the kitchen table (which we'd rather they didn't) within a few weeks of getting trimmed. They have never landed heavy or hard. They actually sometimes "slide" on their feet...my female does that on purpose I think.

 

My Grey doesn't fly unless she's startled so we're debating whether we will have her trimmed this coming spring. Our ekkies, however, get very bold and will fly to the counter, the table, the bedrooms, the bathrooms, etc., when they build up to it (which they have already so it's going to be a long couple of months). We are not having any luck with the "pick them up and put them back on their stand" strategy when they are fully flighted and I do believe that our female would make a bee-line for an open door as soon as she saw it.

 

It's not just training my own kids as they're actually pretty good about it (well, my son, 7, still struggles), it's their friends that concern me more. They're not here often enough for it to be habit/routine for them. Everyone's situation is different and we all believe we're doing the best for ours.

[DavidH]

Thanks to everyone for your observations and insights. It's all been very helpful.

 

Our living room/dining room is roughly similar to Lisa's (not nearly as beautiful). We have two sets of glass sliding doors, but without window panes. No ceiling fans. No other huge hazards. The biggest fear would be the open doors. The neighborhood is full of hawks, owls and coyotes. And then there's the great beyond -- far from the neighborhood.

 

But I'm definitely leaning toward what Dan and others suggested -- letting Shanti get at least some flight experience and see if things turn out healthy, happy and safe.

 

Thanks also to everyone who's been reading the blog! I'm so thrilled that you're enjoying it. -- David

[LisaM]

I think that's a good, well-informed decision David! I hope you find that you are able to provide a safe enough environment to not have to ever clip. Or maybe you'll have a bird that is better trained than ours (and humans, too ).

 

Thanks again for the compliment on the room :blush: . And about ceiling fans...ours are NEVER on when the birds are out of their cages, flighted or not. Actually, we use them so rarely that we sometimes refer to them as our "ceiling art". :lol:

 

Lisa

[Lyric]

It is certainly a topic that has been debated over and over and worth debating. Everyone has a different situation and what works in one household may not work in another. I for one keep my TAG flighted- seeing him fly I see the essence of birdness- I don't think I could deny him this pleasure. It may cause some inconveniences for me, but he's a bird- I feel like if I take away his right to fly I'm denying him a big part of what makes him a bird. If you do allow him to grow out his flight feathers be very mindful of the dangers of open standing water, cooking, and open doors. And other pets if you happen to have them. Lyric is not allowed out of his cage whenever I'm cooking- and when he is out I must be vigilant about watching him with my dogs and anyone coming in or out of the house. Good luck in your decision.

[DavidH]

Thanks, Lyric. I could probably think of 10 good reasons to clip --- I'm in the kitchen cooking a lot and I can't see him from there; my daughters always leave the door open; there's a cat; etc. , etc.

 

But I had lots of "good" reasons for not getting Shanti in the first place. And it's all worked out great.

 

So I'm keeping an open mind here too. I'll update in a few months