My grey eats tooth picks

[SnowMan]

I wanted to post this to see if anyone else has a grey that loves tooth picks. He doesn't just chew them, he eats them. If he doesn't get at least one a day, he chews off pieces of wood from the molding next to his cage. If you keep him away from that, then he will strip off a piece from his perch. One way or another, he is going to get some wood. Tooth picks are his favorite food. He prefers them to nuts. I am afraid that he will get a splinter or that his crop will one day fill with wood, but after 4 months of a steady diet of tooth picks, he is as happy as ever. I got this grey when he was about 8 months, and he was a year in April. He is a finicky eater. He will eat sunflower, but not safflower. He eats all kinds of nuts. he chews peppers, but I don't think he eats them. He will eat some veggies but doesn't care for them. He will only eat a few kinds of fruit. I have owned several birds over the years, but none as finicky as him. I was just wondering if anyone knows why he eats wood? And should I continue to worry?

Here is a short video of him eating a toothpick.

http://dawsontree.com/rian/jesse.wmv<br><br>Post edited by: SnowMan, at: 2007/06/10 23:40

[CeasarsDad]

He eats the wood? Is that good for them? Better look this one up...

[judygram]

I've never heard of them actually eating the wood, are you sure he is ingesting the wood? I would think it would not be good for them. Maybe someone who is an expert can answer your question. I am stumped.

[SnowMan]

Yes he is eating the wood. If you give him a popcycle stick, he will widdle it down till he is holding just a perfect tooth pick size of wood. Then he holds it in his foot and starts biting off little small pieces from the end, until he is finished with the last bite. The rest of the popcycle stick he just discards to the bottom of his cage. He knows where I keep the toothpicks and watches like a hawk. If I get one, he will throw a fit unless I give him one. I have to sneak around the house now if I want to use a toothpick. It's like I am hiding something. His ears are so good, you can't hide it from him. He knows even if I am in the other room with my back turned. I don't see how it could be good for him, but so far it hasn't hurt him. Still I worry.:unsure:

[judygram]

I would put a call into your vet and ask him/her about eating the wood. It may not be harming him but I don't see how it could be good for him.

[SnowMan]

He didn't know either. He never heard of it before. He suggested I post on this forum. I love my Grey and don't want anything to happen to him. He is the best talking and most affectionate bird I have ever cared for. I remember years ago that everyone said give them gravel in there diet. Now people say don't give them gravel. I wonder if he needs the wood in his gizzard since I don't give him any gravel.

[judygram]

I don't give my grey gravel and I have never heard of giving them gravel. I know chickens and turkeys need some kind of grit or oyster shell.

So the vet didn't know either, he should be able to tell you whether or not it is harmful for them.

[Guest Monique]

I've never heard of a bird ingesting wood. Chewing and whittling to nothing while gnawing at it - yes. Eating it - no. I cannot imagine that is good for him. I would get a second opinion from an Avian Vet or ask your vet if he can call someone with more Avian Vet experience.

[SnowMan]

Everytime you call a vet, they say bring him in so we can check him out$ I already paid the piper once, and I was hoping to find my answer on the web somewhere. If he ever gets sick or looks unhappy then to the vet he will go. He has been eating wood ever since I got him which was in December. He might have been eating it before that, but I don't know. His health seems excellent and his stool looks normal. He went through what I would say was a very long molt. He has been loosing the down pretty much ever since I have had him. His wings were clipped when I bought him, and they have not grown back in. It is not the large feathers that he has lost, only the down. He still looks in perfect feather. Not the plucked chicken look that Greys are sometimes known for. Does anyone know when he should be getting his flight feathers in again? His birthday is April 08 2006<br><br>Post edited by: SnowMan, at: 2007/05/21 04:02

[SnowMan]

judygram wrote:

I don't give my grey gravel and I have never heard of giving them gravel. I know chickens and turkeys need some kind of grit or oyster shell.

So the vet didn't know either, he should be able to tell you whether or not it is harmful for them.

 

Back in the 70's it was the thing to do. Some people still argue that giving them grit is the right thing to do. Here is what Wikpedia had to say. "Some animals that lack teeth will swallow stones or grit to aid in digestion. All birds have gizzards, but not all will swallow stones or grit."

 

I have not given any grit to my Grey, but many of my parrots in the past I made it available to them, and I never saw any of them use it.

 

Grit is still widely recommended in the UK http://www.snowflakepets.co.uk/html/parrot.html<br><br>Post edited by: SnowMan, at: 2007/05/22 00:52

[CeasarsDad]

I think you should stop the toothpicks.. Switch to floss for yourself now and don't give your bird toothpicks for the sole reason of him eating them. You don't have enough information on this just yet and you don't need to be causing your bird any damage until you do know for sure.. OK

[Guest]

Snowman, welcome here Nice to have you.

 

I would stop giving those toothpicks if I were you. Wood doesn't really seem like a digestible substance, and who knows what it can do to his system in the long run? Just don't buy toothpicks anymore and let him go through withdrawal (like addicts do) - and present him with alternatives. Or, take your chances....

[Talon]

Snowman, I agree with CD & FairY. They have posted the best advice, When in doubt, don't do it.

[SnowMan]

FairY wrote:

Snowman, welcome here Nice to have you.

 

I would stop giving those toothpicks if I were you. Wood doesn't really seem like a digestible substance, and who knows what it can do to his system in the long run? Just don't buy toothpicks anymore and let him go through withdrawal (like addicts do) - and present him with alternatives. Or, take your chances....

 

Thank you for the welcome, and this is a great forum. I love the way it was designed. Someone really knows there stuff! I have designed a few websites, but nothing that ever looked this nice.

 

About the toothpicks. As I mentioned earlier, he will get wood one way or the other. This is a very determined bird. The only way you can keep him from eating wood is to remove all wooden perches, toys,etc.. from his cage and keep him locked up in this sterile environment. As soon as you let him out he will go straight for the molding or anywhere else he can get a nibble of wood. As long as he gets his toothpick a day, he is much more manageable. His former care giver didn't keep him in a cage, but had several perches mounted from the ceiling. There were numerous toys of wood hanging also. I did notice that they had the whole wall including ceiling covered with something like Plexiglas or something. I asked what that was about, and they said to protect him from chewing. So I was prepared for the chewing, but I didn't know he liked to eat wood. The reason why I give him the toothpick, is that it doesn't tend to splinter and is non toxic. I guess you might say it is the lesser of the two evils. I could break him of the toothpick addiction just by putting a little something nasty on the toothpick, kinda like when you want a kid to quit sucking his thumb. That would stop him on the toothpicks, but it would not stop his eating wood. I still wonder if maybe giving him some kind of grit or gravel for his gizzard would help. It seems like he is telling me he needs the wood. As I say, if I deprive him of the wood, he will take that toothpick before he will take a peanut or anything. This is just weird! This grey is a very active little guy and he is learning something new to say now almost daily. He isn't just talking now, but he is talking back. :huh:

[Guest Monique]

I found this that may help? Here is a good article about why grit is given and why it is not generally used today for parrots. At least it is hopefully some good information .

 

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww58eii.htm

 

Little birdies ... they all talk back ... its what they do best somedays .

[ZoesDad]

Hi Snowman,

 

I think you'd do best to get some advice from an avian behaviourist as your bird might have a psychological problem called pica. I know that this may sound crazy but birds don't normally eat wood. Your bird's behaviour is very unusual. Pica, in humans, invlolves the injestion of inappropriate items such as cigarette butts, bottle caps, pennies, etc. and can be quite dangerous.

Have a look at this link. It'll take you to a scientific publication that discusses the dire effects of wood injestion (pine shavings) on poultry. The potential for harm is great.

 

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0005-2086(197005)14%3A2%3C268%3APOTGIT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-J

 

Try removing wood from your bird's environment and sustituting it with other materials like PVC pipe in the meantime.

Re. behaviourists in your area try Googling. Some offer consults over the phone for reasonable rates. Another thing you could do is Google the American Veterinary Association for a list of certified avian Vets and then find a behaviourist through one of them.

Let us know how things turn out. Sorry to hear about this problem.

[SnowMan]

That was a good article. http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww58eii.htm

 

I have had many parrots over the years, and always made it available to them, but never seen one ever show any interest in it. I finally just quit buying it, as it seemed like a waste of money. I don't know about greys, but I know horses regulate there own mineral intake and they are better at it then a chemist. Most creatures just know from instinct what they need and will take it, if you make it available to them. In the wild, greys have much to choose from, but in captivity they can only choose from what is offered to them. This little grey can tell he doesn't like something just by looking at it. You can encourage him all he wants, but he only eats what he wants and, he knows what he wants. Still if you know something is not good for your pet you would not want to make it available to him. I guess that goes without saying.

 

Post edited by: SnowMan, at: 2007/05/22 01:34<br><br>Post edited by: SnowMan, at: 2007/05/22 02:16

[SnowMan]

ZoesDad wrote:

Hi Snowman,

 

I think you'd do best to get some advice from an avian behaviourist as your bird might have a psychological problem called pica. I know that this may sound crazy but birds don't normally eat wood. Your bird's behaviour is very unusual. Pica, in humans, invlolves the injestion of inappropriate items such as cigarette butts, bottle caps, pennies, etc. and can be quite dangerous.

Have a look at this link. It'll take you to a scientific publication that discusses the dire effects of wood injestion (pine shavings) on poultry. The potential for harm is great.

 

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0005-2086(197005)14%3A2%3C268%3APOTGIT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-J

 

Try removing wood from your bird's environment and sustituting it with other materials like PVC pipe in the meantime.

Re. behaviourists in your area try Googling. Some offer consults over the phone for reasonable rates. Another thing you could do is Google the American Veterinary Association for a list of certified avian Vets and then find a behaviourist through one of them.

Let us know how things turn out. Sorry to hear about this problem.

 

I will admit that his eating wood is strange, and he is a strange little fellow, but trying to remove wood from a birds environment, is like trying to remove water from a fishes environment. Imagine if you had a fish that like to swallow water. Sure it is unusual, but how do you fix it. Birds live in trees, and trees are made of wood. So is my whole house made of wood. I don't want any harm to come to this little guy as he is by far the best parrot I have ever had. We had a Ghana grey many years ago that had a vocabulary of more than three hundred words, and I think this little guy will easily exceed that. He picks things up much quicker and wants to play and interact. If you refuse him his toothpick, He will tolerate it for no more than a day, after that he will start throwing the biggest tantrum you have ever seen. If you keep him locked in his cage, he stands in front of the door and takes his foot and starts making a digging motion like he is trying to dig under a fence. He must have learned this behavour from all the puppies. The previous owner was a breeder. While he is digging, he starts whimpering like a puppy and if you don't let him out after three hours of this, it only esculates into growling. I could go on, but you get the picture. You can't treat this grey like a bird, you can only deal with him like you would a two or three year old child.

I guess I will have to make a video of him. Most of the time he is very well behaved and very affectionate, he only throws the temper if you deprive him of the wood. I know it is wierd. Its been almost 6 months now, and no problem with him yet. My grey can't be the only parrot out there that eats wood. Come on people help me out here.:blush:

[Guest]

A video would be nice

 

Snowman, it seems like he's addicted to wood and nothing will stop him from obtaining his 'daily' portion. If so, and if it is really difficult concerning all the wood that he could eat if not presented with this toothpick to keep him on a 'safe' regimen, maybe you could ask for periodical x-rays of his stomach at the vet's?

 

I would try to get him off, however if the situation is as you say rather complicated, then a check-up (one way or another) at the vet's showing 'physical proof' that no harm is being done seems to me the second best option to keep this under your control...

[SnowMan]

Hmm.. That sounds like a good idea. I doubt if you could see the wood from an xray, but you could see if he had a build up in his crop. I will see if I can get him back in after the holiday.

[Guest]

You will keep us updated? :blush:

[dblhelix]

I have certainly heard of birds that love to chew anything wood, but eating it is odd. How long have you had this little wood worker? Do you know how old he is? Otherwise he eats normally and his weight is stable/good? Droppings look normal? It just seems so unusual that I have to ask what you already indicated...Are you absolutely 100% sure he is injestig the wood and not just splintering it down to small bits and dropping them? If he must eat the wood, continue to research to be sure the wood "offered" is minimally toxic.

 

It will be interesting to see if others here have experience with this, but so far looks like you may be a pretty rare case. At least it sounds like the bird is healthy/happy otherwise... :blink: I will see if I can find anything else out about this that may help.

[SnowMan]

All right I give up. I go to the vet again, and x ray didn't or couldn't show any build up of wood in crop or abdomen. Still my vet says the same as everyone else on this board. Eating wood cannot be good for your parrot. Remove everything wood from him and make him tough it out like a junkie. It's called "intervention" he says. So three days without wood, and the ranting and temper tantrums have finally ceased. Just when I think I am over the hump and making progress, I hear something from behind me that sounds like my grey chewing wood again. I turn to look to see what he has, and discover he has found another way to defeat me. He is now eating the hard shell of a nut that I have yet to identify. It is a little black hard shell nut of some kind. I get the Veracruz parrot mix, and I mix in a pound of there fruit and nuts. I think the nut must have come from the fruit and nuts as I have never noticed it in the Veracruz mix before. The shell of this nut looks and feels exactly like wood, and yes he is eating it.

[Guest Monique]

[CeasarsDad]

There is no way to see wood with an x-ray..

 

I'm thinking.. Perhaps this is a vitamin deficiency in your bird... I have read that parrots have the ability to self regulate their diet to compensation for the necessary vitamin and minerals in their system... Perhaps there is something in the wood that the bird thinks will help it.. What is your birds regular diet?