Loose droppings, I'm worried--detailed explanation

[Chipdouglas]

Hi all,

 

I've bought my grey when I was 20 and I'm 36. Ever since I've owned it, I've fed him Hagen Tropican pellets for grey :

http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/birds/addinfo/tropican.cfm.

 

He's had beautiful plumage ever since, and has never ever plucked any of these last. He has one of those very large cage, so plenty of room to play and have fun. He has a good deal of toys and plays quite a bit with them. He's roughly 26 years old, because when I got it it's reached adult stage already. he's quite playful, doesn't really want to bite our fingers and overall one amazingly friendly grey. I've also fed him fruits mostly, on top of his pellets. He's never been exposed to a lot of stress. He sings and chirps all day and enjoys play games with us, if I may call those games hehe.

 

Now, we moved him to the basement (we spend a good amount of time with him though). I moved him downstairs cause it was really getting dirty upstairs (feather dust), and I've had some issues with severe stress, so I felt It'd be best if I moved him downstairs for those reasons. Now, after moving him downstairs, we haven't noticed any subtle change whatsoever in his behavior, until we added this : http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=40112702&dept%5Fid=136&brand%5Fid=118&Page= and calcium rich pellets. From that point on, not that his behavior's changed, but she started drinking more and obviously her droppings were more watery (more urine). We removed those two pellet food, and her water drinking went back to normal, but somehow he still has watery droppings. I can't spot any sign of ailing health though, and I'm a registered nurse and a detail freak--granted, birds aren't humans, but his behavior hasn't changed a bit. It's also important for me to let you know that her droppings haven't changed color, they're just loose to watery.

 

I was told by an avian breeder that it might be that it's getting too much daily light exposure, meaning that he goes to sleep too late at times (around 10 at times). Her droppings smell awful, and I was told it might be cause it's a female and she's menstruating. It's never happened until we moved it downstairs though, so I'm thinking there might be a connection. I do not know whether it's a male or a female btw. She's (I'll assume it's a she) right next to me at the moment chirping and playing with her toys.

 

Although it may not be related, I've noticed that she sometimes closes her left eye, as though from either photosensitivity or irritation. Downstairs there are two air exchanger outlet, one output and one input, and although she's not close to the air output, because it's winter and air is cold, I thought it might be why she closes her left eye nearly shut at times, and then opens it back and so on and so forth.

 

I'm asking you here, cause you may have encountered such experiences and also cause locally, we have no avian vet--I need to drive two hours to get to see one. All we have locally is one vet who does follow-up on birds which have been seen by one of those avian vets in the next city.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.

 

I forgot to say that I've recently removed the following from her diet, because I felt it might be incompatible with one or more of the ingredients :

 

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=40112721&dept%5Fid=136&brand%5Fid=118&Page=

 

Incidentally, she LOVES the above mix, but now she's on Tropican alone + fruits and some veggies. The reason why I feed her more fruits (not in excess though) as opposed to veggies is that over and over she's turned them down, but I know I should be insisting more though, so in the long run she might feel like having them. Or perhaps introducing very small amounts of them as part of her other foods.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[Dave007]

First and foremost, the most important thing here to to make that all important to an avian vet even if it's 4 hrs away. Not trying to insult you but you're mixing habits and symtoms and subtle changes in this post. A complete examination with pertinent tests will tell give you many answers to many things that are present. A non-avian vet doesn't have the intricate tools and knowlkedge to deal with birds. You're not doing your bird any favors by not going to a vet.

 

""""I was told it might be cause it's a female and she's menstruating.""""

 

First of all, a bird doesn't menstruate. This board is known for giving out high quality information concerning all aspects of a bird's different situations. Right now, the only thing that the people here can only give you * could be or would be answers* which will only confuse you more.

The droppings situation could be from a lot of what's going on with stress or on the other hand it could be from food etc or a change in the type of food. The eye situation could be from a stress situation or an infection or just something you haven't noticed. I say that because it's possible that you weren't keeping a very close eye on your bird until you started seeing different things happening. You don't and neighther do we.

 

Everything you ask needs to be broken down into individual situations that may be connected to each other but on the other hand, may not be.

 

Make that very important visit to an avian vet. Your bird may need medication but we don't know. Many people here have gone to vets that don't deal with birds and a lot of unhapiness and disgust occurred.

 

There are no vets here and people here would be very irresponsible by giving out solutions.

 

PS--if you went to an internist who could'nt understand why you have growths or swelling in your lymph nodes, he/she would tell you that you need to visit a oncologist, but the nearest one is 3 hrs away, would you not go?

[judygram]

Dave has given you some sound advice, your grey needs to be examined by an avian vet and it does not matter how long it takes to go to see one just any old vet won't do. Some of our members have to travel for longer periods of time to see anavian vet but they do it for they care about their bird, why would you want any less for yours.

 

After you have taken him/her in for a complete workup do come back and introduce yourself in the welcome room and tell us some more about you and your grey.

Like what is his/her name?

[Chipdouglas]

I read you loud and clear Dave, however in an effort nor to overestimate neither underestimate my sense of observation I'd tell you that I truly am a detail freak, so when I say there hasn't been any noticeable change, you can take my word for it. It's very delicate here for me to say this, since this may come across as condescending, while I'm only just telling the truth. As I said, I'm not an avian vet, that's for sure, but by nature I'm a detail freak and since I hold a bachelor's degree in nursing and have worked in the field for a few years, and am known for my keen sense of observation, I really do feel there hasn't been any change in the way my grey acts. There are no visible signs either. I can tell you for sure about signs and habits changes, but I cannot make any diagnosis for sure though, so I'd need to see an avian vet. I'm glad to know that this forum is all about giving out high quality information though. This may very well become my online reference for grey related info. regarding your making reference to an internist, I totally agree with you, I'd make the four-hour drive without hesitation. I'll then arrange for an appointment with that remote avian vet.

 

Reason why I asked on here was I thought those issues I've brought up might be very common and for which there are very likely solutions.

[LisaM]

Hello Chip -

 

Great to hear you'll be taking the trek to the vet. I am very fortunate to have several avian vets nearby (I live by Minneapolis, MN) and even though they're close, I always wonder if I should take my birds in as each visit gets very expensive. I do, however, always err on the side of caution and bring them in.

 

One thing you didn't mention was whether your basement is finished, similar temp to upstairs, etc. Also, is there any chance that there could be mold/mildew down there? I'm guessing not with your background and being a self-proclaimed detail freak , but thought I'd ask. There could be possibly something down there that is causing an allergy-type reaction.

 

Good luck to you and please let us know what the vet says. I hope everything turns out fine with him/her. (I'm glad you clarified that you don't know the sex for sure because I was getting confused at first with the mixed pronouns in your post as to whether you were talking about one or two birds...but them I'm not as quick to figure those things out as most maybe:laugh: .

[Chipdouglas]

Hi,

 

I know what self-proclamation may look like, especially from any anonymous individual out there, but I'm very honestly exactly like this, for real. I'm not anal about everything, but there are things which I take very much to heart. I live in a brand new home--we've been here for 1 1/2 year now. Basement isn't finished yet, however all outside walls are covered with sheetrock, there's 2'' styrofoam below the concrete floor, and it's pretty clean over all. However, this may not have been the best of decision to have moved my grey downstairs--I did it because of my health issues ( there's tremendous pressure on me, and save for the weekend, I'm quite on the go). Lighting sure isn't the best downstairs, so I've looked at hanging a UV fixture above it's head. How many hours a day is recommended ? 4-6 ? Since UV light is needed for biosynthesis of 25 OH (vitamin D), I don't think it'd do any harm. There's a smaller room upstairs I could put her into, but the reason I haven't is because of the air exchanger output setup in that room--it's winter alright here, and a draft of cold air, I'm afraid wouldn't be that good to her/him health. Of course she'd be about 12' away from it, and said air outlet is located high on the wall, but still, my computer used to be there and when working at my desk, I could feel cold air flowing by, which was unpleasant.

 

One thing I do not know is how dry or humid should it be in my home, taking into account my grey's needs ?

 

Since one significant aspect of disease prevention in humans is lifestyle, I'd tend to think that to some extent, the same is true of birds. Meaning that, every little pertinent and useful things one can do towards better life condition of ours loved ones can result of more robust health. Diet sure comes first and foremost, at least in humans it does. Excessively stressful environments aren't conducive to health either, but this isn't much of a problem here, as I don't have any kids, just me and my better half.

[LisaM]

Firstly, I hope my comment on your "self-proclaiming" didn't come off as I doubted you...it wasn't that at all. It was more because you said "detail freak" instead of "extremely detail-oriented" or something else, which I found funny because I call myself that for some things. No offense intended for sure! :-)

 

Secondly, I'm sorry to hear you are facing health issues personally that are to the point of having to modify your living space. That must be very difficult on top of all the other just normal daily pressures of life. I wish you the best and hope that it's something that can get better with your changes.

 

Thirdly, back to your loose-droppings issue - how long ago did you stop feeding the new food that may have triggered the change in droppings? It may just take awhile to get whatever was in there out of his/her system?

 

As for lighting...I have had a full-spectrum Ott-Lite on my birds for approx. 4 hours/day. When I was at the vet last week, she told me I should only have it on for 2 hours/day. The 4 hours was based on my other avian vet so I've changed it to 3 (split the difference) until my other vet comes back into town and then I'll verify with her.

 

Here is one site that gives some more detailed information on lighting for birds (some of it very technical and WAY above my head): http://http://users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/index2.html. It's just one site with one viewpoint. I'm sure there are others.

 

I'm not sure about the humidity question either. We have multiple aquariums in the home and have to have an air exchanger to keep condensation from forming on the windows in the wintertime (in MN). It's part of our furnace system though. I have no idea how it really works. . We have a higher humidity level in our house than most I think.

 

I know they come from areas with mild temps and relatively high humidity, so if it's too dry it could cause issues. Does yours get frequent showers/misting or similar? If so, I don't know if the room humidity is of significance.

 

Okay, so probably not that helpful, but it may give you some starting points. And again, please keep us updated on him/her!

 

Lisa

[Char]

It is good that you are detail oriented but birds are different than humans in that you may not notice changes until they are very sick as they are very good at hiding an illness. Their survival in the wild depends on this.

 

A bird's poop is a very telling sign that show something is amiss if it stays loose for more than a couple of days.

 

Make the trip and take your bird to the vet and then come back and let us know if all is well.<br><br>Post edited by: Char, at: 2009/01/11 04:11