Almost 2 years

[yard3875]

I have a grey that is almost 2 years old. She is at the point that may have to get rid of her. Everytime I try to put her in time out she will bite and most of the time draw blood. She is at home all day with my husband and never in her cage. I just don't know what to do! I am at my wits end with her and her biting. Any help will help.

[yard3875]

I don't know if she needs more cage time. Right now she is out all day. I don't know if she has to much control over the house and knows that she can get anything that she wants.

[BMustee]

It sounds to me...after reading through your old posts...that she thinks she is the Alpha of the house. I'm thinking that because she gets all the "free range" time and I'm betting not put back in her place every time she made a run for dominance that she now thinks she is the one in control in the house. I know that you have had a long run of biting issues with her (which seems to be a TAG thing) and I'm guessing that she has been learning that if she bites she gets what she wants...starting with just little nips and now that the nips don't work is biting harder and harder to "stay in power". Basicly when she breaks a rule and you go to put her in time out if she bites do the earth quake, give her the best stink eyes you can muster and say a firm NO in an angery tone...and strait into the cage with her. Don't stay in the room with her ether...she needs to be all alone for a good 10 minutes. Also, is she full flight? A lot of parrots that are allowed free flight get very aggressive without a very experianced "handler" to keep the behavior in check. If her wings are not clipped you need to have it done.

[yard3875]

I always keep her wings clipped. You are right she has control of the house. So we are coming up with a schedule for her just like we do when she wakes up and goes to bed at night. So far its working. Thank you for all the help.

[LindaMary]

I am so glad to hear that you are coming up with a solution that involves better discipline rather than re-homing. I don't know whether you have children, but I know when my parrots misbehave, it always helps me to remember the comparison of parrots with human toddlers. Would I have let my daughter get away with this without consequences when she was 2? If the answer's "No", then I need to come up with a parrot-appropriate consequence. And for some reason it still amazes me thet they really do respond - even though sometimes it does take time for them to learn the connection between their behavior and the consequence.

 

Hang in there - just be firm and consistent - you'll continue to see improvement!

[yard3875]

I don't have kids so yeah she is my little girl and i know i let her get away with anything. We are trying anything we can.

[BMustee]

Time outs, firm no's, stink eyes, and consistancy really seem to do wonders with greys. Every time they misbehave they need to know what is going to happen every time and that you are not happy with them...just like a kid.

 

I really think you will be able to get her behavior problems under control because I have seen much worse come around...so just hang in there.

[Annias]

I found great help on my Grey's bitting on ParrotTalk.net. This post is a little disorganized as it is late, but I wanted to get it out to you. hope it is of some use and makes sence. I have attached a link to ParrotTalk below. It is really working. What I have done is I have taken my grey into a room that is not his territory and that is a realtively small space. Laundry room for me and I have worn gloves, more for me so that I can take following through on what I'm doing without flinching back. They are just gardening leather gloves, and I keep interacting, including touching my grey and being very gentle but determined to not change my behavior of requriing step up etc. He is really taming down. And in fact he seems like a much happier bird, though he does not like the training session yet. I do this only for 10 minutes... the first couple of times, snd only onr time a day for a couple of days then twice a day for 6 days so far and these sessions are not 20 minutes. Give him treats everytime he does what you ask and ignore the biting. I don't think birds knoe why they are being given a time out, and it is a reward in ways as they want you to back off so they bite and your really back off when you give them a time out, in some ways it is a reward. . Before I tried this differnt approach, I felt like we were in a tunnel in which no behavior change seem likely. I'm am so far from an expert but this seems to be working for me and my 12 year old rehomed CAG, rehomed with me 2 months ago. If you are at the point of rehoming, you may want to give it a try. I was thinking of getting another bird that I could interact with more fully, and I realized if I did that then I would just accept the limited interaction with my bird and he would never make a great companion to anyone. So I shifted gears and am doing this, I may still get another bird, but not as a substitue for working with my becoming a great companionCAG. Another thing, I now only use the gloves during the training session, but for the first few days he was a little pissed off so I used them when I needed them to feel cofident in handling him. Also use a towel if you need to. You must be consistend and follow through so what ever you need to protect yourself and make sure you can do that, in my opinion do it. Another thought is that birds from my understanding only associate what happens imediately after the action, and I mean second, as the consequence of their action... I read about this on Bird Talk Magazine, I have learned from a aninimal behavirlist that a split second of pulling back can give your Grey the reward for having bit,, that is what they want and you do have to show them that by behaving and not biting they will be rewarded. Durng the trainig session, I keep going when my grey bites and give him space and treats when he is calmer. Again, you can't help but back away when they are going to bite and the goves gives you just a little protection, not much as they still have to seem close enough to hands to work with hand training (so thinner), it also gives you the ability to withstand more of the bitting. I think my Grey understands that I am protecting myself and he seems to respond positively to a behavior he understand. i won't consider the training done until their are not gloves and no bites during the session, but we are getting closer. Keep interacting after the training session in a relaxed way, then give him a break then interact normally, but cofidently, and if you have to put the gloves back on to interact normally, by normally I mean not pressing step ups and touches. Anyway, hope this is of some use and it may be a horrible idea for you and your Grey, but I empathize with your feeling like nothing will change and the need to try something new. This is helping us. Also, be sure to stop during the training sesssion to allow the bird to calm down, but at the right points, when the bird has not just bitten you. Take a look at these posts as these are where I got some of my ideas, but I tailored it to what I could mannage and what felt right for me an my Grey.

 

Here is the link

 

ParroTalk.net / Parrot Welfare & Nutrition / Behavior & Training / Behavior Mods for Biters

 

Here are the contents the posts I found useful

 

Behavior Mods for Biters

 

Basic Taming and Training

 

This is meant to train a new bird who does not accept handling and is biting. ( but my bird is 12 years ond and it works... I am not on a feeding schedule but take food away about 2 hours before training, and don't give treats except for during training.

 

Step 1: Getting your bird on a feeding and training schedule.Step 1: Getting your bird on a feeding and training schedule.

 

Things you will need to complete this step:

 

(1) A training treat the bird will respond to.

 

(2) A clock you can see.

 

(3) A soft voice.

 

(4) Patience.

 

First, get your bird on a training diet.

 

Your bird should be on a pellet diet, with fresh fruits and veggies. ABSOLUTELY NO SEEDS OR NUTS DURING TRAINING TIME. These are going to be his training rewards. If he wants them, he must work for them! If he has satisfied his taste for them at mealtimes, he will be less likely to work for them at training time.

 

Your bird should be fed twice per day. Once in the morning. Once in the evening. Wait until the bird is finished eating and is full, then remove the food cups from the cage. (Leave the water, of course!) DO NOT LEAVE BOWLS FULL OF FOOD IN THE CAGE DURING THE DAY. YOU WANT THE BIRD ON A FEEDING SCHEDULE. You want the bird to be slightly hungry when working with him.

 

Next set a training schedule and stick to it.

 

Your bird needs to adjust to this regimentation. He will quickly come to anticipate it, and enjoy it. Trust me.

 

Ideally, training should be AFTER the morning meal, and BEFORE the evening meal. Reasoning: Birds are usually grumpy in the morning before they eat, especially if they don’t get enough sleep. Working with them before the evening meal means they will be hungry and more receptive to food based stimulation.

 

Each session will last approximately half an hour. We don’t want to wear the little guy out, or exhaust his attention span.

 

YOU ARE NOW READY TO BEGIN TRAINING!

 

Ready?! Here’s the big secret. For the first three to five days you are not going to be handling your bird. You are going to be getting him used to the schedule that he will be handled on.

 

During that time, for half an hour at a time, sit next to the cage and talk softly to the bird using “the bird voice.” It doesn’t matter what you say (recite the alphabet, talk about your kids, call him names) what matters is that you are being animated and attentive, using the birds name often, and not making any threatening movements.

 

After five or ten minutes, once you have your bird’s attention, pour a handful of treats into the open palm of your hand, and show them to him. Make sure he sees them. Eat one or two yourself. Make gestures that show how ‘yummy’ they are. Place the bag they came from in plain view, so he can see it.

 

Now that you have his full attention offer him a treat. Pick it up from the palm of your hand, and hold it up. Show it to him before you offer it. In order to receive the treat, he must take it from your fingers gently. Do not let him get your fingers. You do not want to reward him for biting you. If he takes the treat from your hand reinforce with “good bird.”

 

Talk to him a little more, and then hold up another treat. After four or five treats, make a game of it. Tease him a little. Pull it away a few times before you let him have it. Let him get used to hands going in and out around his beak without grabbing at them.

 

The object here is not to shovel treats into his beak. This is something that should be done slowly and over time. Let him savor it. Wait until he wants more. You are not catering to him. He is being attentive to you. Reward him for that attention. Keep this up for the full half hour.

 

If he lunges for your hand or the treat move your hand back, and he does not get it. If he is not gentle, scowl and give a brief disapproving look. Reinforce with, “No biting.” and “gently.” Offer him the treat again. If he takes it from you gently, give it to him. If he attempts to bite, or snatch it, back away again. If he does not take the treat gently from your hand by the third attempt, turn your back on him and walk away. Ignore him completely for five minutes.

 

Most birds, but especially Big Macs and Toos CANNOT STAND TO BE IGNORED. It is one of the most powerful weapons in your arsonal. Use it. Walk away from the cage. Put your nose up in the air. Don’t respond to bids for attention. Play “hard to get.” Stop catering to the bird’s every whim. Make him work a little. When he calms down, come back.

 

If he continues to act up, he doesn’t get fed. Walk away again. When he calms down, come back. If he doesn’t calm down in the entire 30 minute session, he doesn’t get his treats. End the session. (Don’t be afraid to fail. Be persistent. Enforce the rules. Insist that he follow them.) Begin again when its time for the next session.

 

By the end of the three to five day period, he should be completely comfortable with you, and with having your hands in and around his beak without lunging.

 

END OF STEP ONE

 

 

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Step 2: Getting Him Comfortable With Being Handled.

 

Before moving on to step 2, your bird must first be to the point where he is completely comfortable with you in step 1. He should be responding to your voice. He should be reacting when you ignore him. (If it upsets him, GOOD! It’s working. Keep doing it.) He should be taking food from your hand gently. He should not be attempting to attack your hand when you move it towards his beak.

 

A bird who has had it’s wings clipped is easier to control and work with. I strongly recommend it.

 

Things you will need to complete this step:

 

(1) Items 1-4 in step 1.

 

(2) A T-stand, or table top training perch, or shower perch same diameter as the main perch in the cage.

 

(3) Two 18 inch lengths of wooden dowel, same diameter as the main perch in the cage.

 

Home Depot item. Only a buck or two.

 

If your bird has been abused (as mine was) with dowel perches, and absolutely freaks out at the sight of them, then substitute two large beach towels for the two dowel perches.

 

(4) A large, thick beach towel.

 

(5) A quiet neutral room away from the cage and all other people.

 

I used the master bathroom for this.

 

(6) A steady nerve, and calm, confident demeanor. These guys can smell fear a mile away. Never let them see you sweat! If they sense fear, they will bully you. If you act wishy washy, you send mixed signals and confuse the bird. All your actions must be deliberate. I am a friend, not a threat, bird. You know me now. We ARE going to do this, bird! Be the one in control of the situation.

 

What to wear during training:

 

(1) A heavy long sleeved shirt, preferably sweatshirt material, and long pants. Minimize the amount of exposed flesh.

 

(2) Closed toed shoes! Preferably leather. If the bird flies down from the perch, he may go after your toes. This is especially true with Big Macs and Amazons!

 

Ready for round two?! Set up the training perch in the neutral room. Place the large towel close by the training perch, just in case. You probably won’t need it. Place the bag of treats in the room as well. Take out about 3-4 first, and take those with you to the cage.

 

Sit in front of the cage at your normal training time. By now your bird will probably be anticipating it. Start using the bird voice as always. Feed him 3-4 treats to get him in the mood.

This time, something new has been added. Open the cage door and take a step back. Wait for the bird to come out on his own, and perch on the cage door.

 

Reasons: first, territorial aggression. You don’t want to be viewed as “invading the nest” at this point. You haven’t earned that much trust yet. Secondly, if he climbs up on the cage door, he can’t run around inside the cage. Position yourself between the cage door and the cage. He only has the length of the cage door to maneuver on when you try to get him to step up. If he flies down to the floor, he will want to step up. Either way, you are now holding the bird.

 

Distract him with one of the dowel perches, and step him up, using the step up command with the other. DO NOT LET HIM BITE THE PERCHES OR YOU WILL BE TRAINING HIM TO BITE YOUR HAND. Position the dowel perch at the usual spot by his legs. If he does not step up right away gently nudge him with one perch while distracting him with the other. The minute he puts a foot on the perch, lift up. He will have to step up. PRAISE THE BIRD WHEN HE STEPS UP.

 

If you are using towels instead of perches, wrap them tightly around your arms and hold them closed with your fist. Make sure all the bird can grab if he bites is a beak full of towel. Distract him with one toweled hand while stepping him up onto the other toweled hand. Then walk him over to the training room perch and set him down on it.

 

Training exercise no. 1: For the first 5-7 minutes of the training session, have him step off the T stand, onto the dowel (or towel), and then back down onto the t stand over and over again. Talk to him in the “bird voice” the entire time this is happening. Do not let him bite the stick or towel. Move fast. Stay far enough back with the other hand/dowel that he cannot reach it, but close enough to distract him with it. If he moves toward the “perch hand” immediately distract him with the dowel hand, or blow hard in his face to distract him.

 

If he becomes aggressive and attempts to latch on. Grab hold of the beak. Towel him, and take him back to his cage. End the session for the day. Ignore him. No treats. Bad boy.

 

If successful after 5-7 minutes, and he is stepping up nicely for you, reward him with praise and treats. Make a big deal about how good he was. Shower him with attention.

 

Begin training exercise no. 2: Again 5-7 minutes. This time we are going to use our two perches to GENTLY touch him all over. Desensitize him to you. Let him get used to it. Let him figure out that this is not a threat. If there are areas he hates to be touched, be sure to touch him there over and over again, pulling away as he turns to bite. Touch him on the other side, with the other perch when he does, and back to the other side again. Do the back of his neck. The chest. The sides of his wings. The feet. The tail feathers. Touch everything. BUT DON’T LET HIM BITE THE STICK OR THE TOWEL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Talk to him the entire time. Your hands should be moving constantly. Your eyes should be focused on the bird’s posture, eyes, head, and shoulder movements. He will show you when he is getting upset, and what direction he is intending to turn.

 

After 5-7 minutes, discontinue and reward him with treats and praise.

 

Begin training exercise no 3: HERE COMES THE MOMENT OF TRUTH!

 

Set down one of the two perches. Distract him with the perch in your left hand. Step him up onto YOUR OTHER BARE HAND. If he strikes for the hand, he will go for the thumb. Be prepared to move the dowel perch to a position between the bird’s beak and your thumb. DO NOT HIT HIM WITH THE PERCH! But position the perch where he cannot bite your thumb, and gently “nudge” his beak away from your thumb with the perch or the towel. DO NOT LET HIM BITE THE PERCH. DO NOT LET HIM BITE YOUR THUMB. Use the “no bite” command. You may have to move his beak away several times before he stops attempting to grab your thumb. Praise him when he stops, and go back to the “bird voice.”

 

Wait for him to be calm. Now, walk around the house with him for the remainder of your ½ hour training session. Wander from room to room. Go out in the back yard sit down for awhile. Let him get used to you moving around while holding him. ALL THE WHILE WATCHING HIS BODY POSTURE. In the case of big macs, don’t let him go for your thumb or your trapezious muscle. (That’s where they will strike.) Amazons or toos will likely go for the thumb or the forearm. Use the other perch to block and control the beak and prevent it.

 

Walk him back to his cage and set him down on the door. Praise him and give him some more treats. This training session is now over. DO THIS TWICE A DAY FOR 1-2 MONTHS.

 

Objective: Teaching him to step up without biting. Teaching him to walk around with you. Getting him to accept being touched. Teaching him that touching is not bad, and that you are not going to hurt him. Gradually move your hand up the two perches over the course of the two months, until you are no longer using perches or towels, but are actually petting the bird all over with your hand.

 

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Getting the bird to lie on its back in the palm of your hand.

 

Do not rush into trick training! Birds learn new tricks in a matter of days to weeks, once you get them to the point where they trust you. The training is easy. Establishing the level of trust, confidence and interaction is the critical factor.

 

What you will need: You will need a bird that trusts you. Your training perch. Your bird voice. Your training treats.

 

Step 1: Step your bird up onto your right hand. Put your thumb over his feet to give him extra support. Put your left hand over his head, out of reach, to distract him. He will automatically focus on the hand above his head. As this happens, turn him onto his back in mid air. Talk to him the entire time. Count to 3. Bring him back up. Praise him and reward him with treats. (Repeat this step 5-10 times.)

 

The bird may get slightly upset or panicky the first time or two. This is normal. Stroke his back give him treats, and wait for him to calm down.

 

Step 2: Once he is comfortable lying on his back in mid air, slowly lower your left hand, and scratch the "sweet spot" on his back just below his head while he is lying on his back. Your bird will probably like this. (Repeat this step 5 times. Each time praising the bird and giving him a treat.)

 

Step 3: Next, instead of scratching him, on the next rep, stroke his back once or twice and lay him flat in the palm of your hand. Then slowly let go with your thumb, and pull your finger out from his feet. Bingo! Your bird is lying on his back in the palm of your hand.

 

Next, pet his chest, talk to him, tickle him under his wingtips, and see how long he will stay there for you.

 

Don't be surprized if your bird starts rolling over onto his back during play sessions with you once he learns this trick...

 

 

Here is a link to Ken Globus' training tips. I know I've posted them before but for some reason I couldn't find them when I went to look for them.

 

These are simple, easy to understand and apply, and extremely effective.

 

Perhaps we can add this to our permanent collection of training tips?

 

http://www.thebirdwhisperer.com/tips.htm