annmarie73 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 {Love-000200C2} Would you say a good breeder is a breeder who takes responsibility for the birds s/he breeds and sells when the new owner is for whatever reason unable to keep the new parrot purchased no matter what age the bird is? Also, including all parrots he was responsible for breeding and selling that self mutilate or demonstrate other difficult behaviors. or Would you say that a good breeder is defined as someone who takes back only the birds that are "re-sellable" with a non-return policy for "non-re-sellable" parrots? Looking forward to your ideas on this matter! MUCH LOVE, ANN MARIE & STERLING {Nature-0002009A} Post edited by: annmarie73, at: 2008/11/30 01:58<br><br>Post edited by: annmarie73, at: 2008/11/30 02:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 You writing a book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmarie73 Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 I probably should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 What difference does it make if you believe that all bird breeding should be banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmarie73 Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 I am trying to get the other point of view about good breeders and I am trying to understand the difference between a good and bad breeder. Your insight would be much appreciated! {Love-0002011E} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolyn Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I do not feel that there is a black or white answer to your questions you are asking - I think that each circumstance would be different and should be handled that way. I would not try to define a good or bad breeder on the merits of these questions. Carolyn & Mika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Well, why don't you just give you're opinion as to the difference between the two? By the way, do you believe that bird breeding should be banned? If so, why do you think that should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmarie73 Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 {Nature-0002009A} Thank you Carolyn and Mika for your input. Any other input would be great! Looking forward to more responses that address the question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Be very careful here Annmarie73. B) I can see where you are taking this, and I will be keeping a close eye on this thread. In my opinion, it is not so cut and dry. The reasons for identifying a "good" breeder from a "bad" breeder are unique for may reasons and many circumstances. Much too complicated to be debated here with out starting a much heated "debate" to put it nicely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycos_mom Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I agree Talon this is something each person must decide for them selves. There are good breeders and bad breeders but what I classify as a bad breeder others may consider exceptable and who am I to say they're wrong. this is not something that should be debated on this forum every body has their own opinion as to what a good breeder entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmarie73 Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 {Communicate-0002011B} I understand that not everyone is going to have the exact same definition of a good/bad breeder. But I have noticed that comments like "find a good breeder" are commonly shared with someone who is looking for an African Grey. If someone is instructed to go to a good breeder what should they be looking for to know if in fact they are a good breeder? ***** Looking forward to your responses ***** MUCH LOVE, ANN MARIE & STERLING {Nature-0002009A} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolyn Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I am wondering AnnMarie why you are looking for a clean cut answer to questions that are not clean cut! You posted 3 times to different posts on 10/18/2008, your posts - Bird breeding except for the preserving the species should be illegel - Bird Breeding is cruel and unnecessary - I hope they make bird breeding illegal Why now are you trying to define the difference between a bad or good breeder, when you are so against bird breeding?? Carolyn & Mika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmarie73 Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Again, I am trying to get a different perspective. Clearly there is a distinction being made between good breeders versus bad breeders. What criteria do you use to determine this distinction? Looking forward to hearing your reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 My opinion, Millie M., age 76, is an exceptional breeder. She would not take a deposit, does not ship her birds, handed each potential adoptee to me separately to see which one bonded with me, checked my traveling cage and lined it to make sure my baby would be cushioned if she fell, give me a plastic bowl for food, did not take my money until she was sure I was worthy of a grey and sent me home with an extensive packet of information and dos and don'ts and enough food to last a month. Called me when I got home and called me this morning to make sure everything was okay. She wanted to make sure her baby was okay. I have no doubt that if I had said I had changed my mind she would have driven to my house to take her baby back and fully refund my money. I have a well-adjusted baby who loves to be cuddled and eats everything because Millie introduced her to everything she could think of. I consider myself very lucky to have found a wonderful and caring breeder. Annmarie this is a friendly forum, please respect that and if you need conflict go to a debate forum. Tell us about your grey we would be most interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nims Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hi Annmarie, You seem to be dodging the questions that members have put you? What are you looking for? Carolyn you have made some interesting observations and I have your previous posts annmarie. Be careful where you take this thread as Talon suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I cautiously will respond to your question, with one stipulation, that is that this is my opinion only!! A good breeder of any critter, whither feathers, furred or fur-less will be observed doing the following things: - Providing clean and safe breeding environment that is humane both in feeding and space to "Stretch" their wins/legs - Providing any medical attention needed as they grow, even if it takes a huge amount of money. - Ensures that each baby and their parents are given proper personal attention needed for good mental health - Ensures no incestral breeding is taking place, which normally results in a weakened if not handicapped offspring. - Ensures that no baby is released unweaned - Ensures each baby is well socialized - Qualifies the prospective clients by meeting with them, asking critical questions and watching them interact with the babies. Notes if they ask good questions regarding care, feeding, health check up requirements etc. - Ensure the new owners are counseled on proper diets, recreational and personal activities each baby will require for a happy and healthy life - Is available for calls and questions as the new owners may encounter something they have no clue about - Makes themselves available 24/7 in case of an emergency - If possible, in case of an extenuating circumstance, be willing to take the bird in if the owners can no longer keep the baby or assist in finding a good and caring home for it. The would of course vary based on space in the breeders home/aviaries and how many babies/adults they have at the time. - Has atleast a 30 day health guarantee There are many more, but I will stop and let others add there thoughts on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 People are always told to go to good breeders. A person starts to know what to look for after hearing many people talk about the different good points about the breeders they've dealt with. No one breeder is perfect. Some good breeders have some methods of doing things that may not rub certain people the right way. For anyone writing a book as you say you might do, I'll tell you how a breeder is chosen by people. Good breeders Breeder A --has lots of good methods along with certain methods that aren't accepted by people because of what they're told by others. It doesn't make breeder A irresponsible or a bad breeder. Breeder B---has methods that aren't known to many people but the success rate is eventually proven to be consistent. Breeder C---puts great importance on certain things but not as much on other things which many people won't really see the importance of. It doesn't make them bad breeders. So a person can look at A, B and C and see what's important to them. The person is told to check out different breeders if possible and we as a group tell the people what questions to ask. I tell people not to expect the answer they're hoping for because with too many subjects, there's a million smaller more specific questions and answers embedded in that main question. Breeders know this and offer to help in the future if problems arise because they know that these more specific questions will eventually come to the surface. Bad Breeders A person who put the value of money above the value of a living creature even though that money will eventually arrive but not as quickly. The breeder sells unweaned birds to people without knowing what their qualifications are concerning the care of an unweaned bird. That breeder will use inferior stock and many hens eventually push out birds that aren't good birds from the very beginning. There's much more that can be said about good and bad breeders but I figure that this enough to show you that there just insn't one fence with good on one side and bad on the other. People can have good experiences with bad breeders and people can have bad experiences with good breeders. I don't quite remember but if you're the person that decided to come here to make some type of statement concerning the banning of breeders, just remember that the bird you're holding in your hand in your avatar wouldn't be here unless 2 birds got together in an environment that was controlled by people. AND try to think about the people out there that couldn't handle adult pre owned birds. Those people deserve to own a pet that they can start off with on an even playing field. Anytime you think that you can handle pre owned birds, just look me up. After all, if breeding was banned, the only thing left would be pre owned birds. I have access to quite a few and they wouldn't hesitate to very seriously injure and bite the fingers that you'll be using to write or type that book with. AND, guess what? The birds I'm referring to came from very good breeders. It's the owners of the birds that weren't too good and if those people had gotten very young birds, they wouldn't have had those problems. Wanna write a book? Remember that you're gonna have to deal with all aspects of bird ownership, not just the people who had those birds for the first few months of their lives and it takes a person who's got many, many, many years of experience to pull that off.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/01 01:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I love you guys! You know who you are here, these family members that can sniff out trouble.....:whistle: And handle it with such grace and dignity!! Karma for you all!<br><br>Post edited by: Talon, at: 2008/12/01 01:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedyn Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 A good breeder is something that's very difficult to quantify. In my opinion, a good breeder is one that places the animal's health and well-being above all else. And the best method for making this determination is to look at the offspring they produce. Are they happy, laid-back, healthy, and well socialized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 It will be interesting to hear your replies to peoples answers Annmarie! I dont quite know what interest you have as I gather from your previous posts you wont be looking for a breeder in the near future, people normally ask questions like this to advise them? What exactly are you doing with the information from this thread? How is it going to benefit you? I look forward to your response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I agree with Casper and all others comments. AnnMarie - We have given you some of what you asked for. Now it's your turn to reciprocate the kindness. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animalspirit Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think a good breader is someone who feels responsible for the young parrots he sells. Therefor: 1: A good breeder will only breed with healthy couples, preferably consisting from birds that met in a larger group. The partnership is their own choice. 2: A good breeder will only breed with parrots that are well socialized, on humans as well as on birds. 3: A good breeder will not breed with parents that have a dispositon for feather picking or plucking. 4: A good breeder will try to do "co-parenting" with the parents, so that the young parrots will be socialized on humans as wel as on parrots. 5: A good breeder will have the chicks make their first flight in an outdoor aviary: direct sunlight and fresh air are most important for development of the bones, flying is essential for the development of the flight-muscles. 6: A good breeder will supply the birds with preferably biological food: pellets. vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds etc. 7: A good breeder will deliver the young birds well socialized and tested. And will make sure the young birds are already trained to step up. 8: In Holland there is a PKK-certificate now, it means that the breeder is a qualified one, according to the dutch parrot association. 9: A good breeder will advise the new owner thoroughly about keeping the birds of this particular species, and will always be open for questions. 10: If there's a problem, the breeder will always be willing to take the bird back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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