Bad bird behavior

[BaxtersMom]

Baxter gets along with me and my husband. I spend the most time with him but he and my hubby get along just fine untill yesterday.  Yesterday he bit my husband really hard and did not let go.  I thought it was a fluke.This evening it happened again (right after posting that my grey gets along with both of us so well)  It happens when my husband is asking him to step

up. It happened twice this evening so I know something is up. The first time today my hubby let out a good yell as anybody would cuz Baxter was being vicious and not letting go. He was out for blood!:angry: The second time today I watched it all. My husband put his hand up to him and was greeted by baxter, he petted his head and asked him to step up. Baxter stepped right up on my husbands hand, both feet and tore into his hand and would not let go for nothing. I have not seen him this vicious and I am worried. My husband told me after that that he was not messing with "That Bird" again.

 

I was upset at baxter too so I went over and gave him a good talking to. No yelling just in a stern voice told him that he was not a biting bird and we would not accept this behavior from him and things like that Then I put him in his cage and I covered him for about 10 minutes. I have never had to do anything like to him before.

 

When I lifted the cover & I got him out he acted like he was so sorry. I was telling him again in a nice tone this time that he could not act this way and all that jazz. He seemed like he was really sorry, can they understand all this???? He rested the side of his head against my chest, kind of pouting and then he kept putting it down for scratches. (Now how can I stay mad after that)

 

I am just really worried now. My husband wanted me to ask why he would change like this so soon. Nothing has changed. We did buy a new bird cage for another bird but the first bite happened before that. Please help> I don't want my husband and baxter to be mad at each other. How can this be corrected??? And why did this happen in the first place. My husband loves the birds and is good with them.<br><br>Post edited by: BaxtersMom, at: 2008/10/06 05:10

[judygram]

OMG Erika, I am surprised to hear of this and I am afraid I have no quick answer for you either. I am just about as puzzled as you are.

 

He bit after he stepped up on his hand, that indicates that he was not against stepping up so was anything different about your husband that could account for Baxter's different attitude upon stepping up?

 

Baxter is an older bird, it could be something to do with sexual maturity, I don't have any experience with that so some of the other members who have greys old enough may be able to help in that aspect.

 

I know your hubby is hesitant to have much more to do with Baxter but he needs to not back down or show fear for Baxter will feed off of that and maybe bite more.

 

I'm sorry Erika that I can't be of more help but I have limited experience but I do know who would and that is Dave. I will pm Dave and have him take a look at your thread and give you some advice.

[Luvparrots]

Erika, go to "search forum" and type in "biting" a world of past posts will pop up. Loads of info. Please tell your hubby to be calm and don't give up, and don't react; so as not to encourage bad behavior. Good Luck!!

[BaxtersMom]

Thanks Judy, I hope Dave helps soon. I am just as surprised as you are to see this reaction!!! I never thought I would see Baxter be down right mean like this. But yea, Baxter was acting friendly to my husband with his greetings. He didn't run at all and stepped both feet up on his hand and attacked. He knew exactly what he was doing:evil: .

 

We did talk about it a little bit more and the first time he was bit him (Saturday) was when we were getting ready to go to the bird show. Keith (my husband) was trying get him to step up so we could put him in the cage to leave. We both put him in his cage so it's not like it was unusual to baxter. He just didn't want to. Neither one of us could get him so I said I would be on one side of the cage and herd him towards my husband so he would have to step up. We were trying to corral him I guess, that is when he first bit Keith. Baxter has never been that difficult to get in the cage either, this was the first time he acted like that and I know Baxter was getting upset and stressed about it but he had to go in. Anyway, that is the how the first bite happened. Hopefully that will shed a bit more light on it.

 

I was looking for Dave or DanMq, too but they weren't on.

 

I just know we have to get through this quickly. My guys have to sort their issues out!! I am very concerned. This is not the Baxter I know. He is so sweet and gentle with me. I just don't know why he would turn on my husband so quickly.

[Carolyn]

I am so sorry to hear this Erika, I can be of no help with an answer to this behavior,:unsure: but moral support to you and Keith. Baxter, I am sure will come around, he loves both of you guys so much.

 

Carolyn & Mika

[Dave007]

From my experience, birds bite for generally one of two reasons: survival or control. In most homes survival is rarely the reason that biting occurs unless something horrific is happening in the house.Usually, when that's going on, the animal winds up in a rescue/shelter area. A bird like that will rarely stop that biting habit. 99% of this doesn't happen with birds that are pets.

 

Since biting in parrots is a displacement, not an instinctive behavior, it is logical to assume that the behavior must be reinforced in some way or it would not continue. In other words, if it did not accomplish something positive in the parrot's experience, then the parrot would not continue to do it. This is important to understand: parrots in captivity are actually rewarded for biting -- by humans that simply do not understand how differently parrots can perceive things. You had 2 incidents. In your eyes and your hubbie's eyes, it was extreme but more importantly it was temporary. Now your bird is back to stepping up but there's one difference in the stepping up process--he's holding on and won't let go. No biting, just holding on tightly. It might be unfortable especially if he has ver pointed claws but in general, it's no big deal because what it is that's really bothering you--the biting has stopped. So you put up with the holding on that he's doing.

 

There is a lot of outdated and incorrect advice being given about biting parrots. People are often told to grab the bird's beak and shake it and yell NO!! This doesn't work for two reasons. First, people in the know have now realized that grabbing a parrot's beak [what experts call "Beak Wrestling"], is considered to be play behavior between parrots. Secondly, as mentioned before, parrots love the drama of a person yelling. So once again, in our effort to give negative feed-back to parrots, we have only succeeded in rewarding them.

 

It also doesn't usually work to punish by putting the bird in its cage, because by the time you get him there he's probably completely forgotten the connection between biting you and being locked up. Putting the bird on a cage works better because you're simply putting him in an area where the contact has stopped for a while. Obviously, he can't bite you again because you've removed him from your vicinity, but you haven't taught him anything about NOT BITING. Their memory is very short when it comes to dissapline. In situations like that you should simply put the bird down and walk away and ignore the bird for a longer amount of time then is usual. He won't do it again or maybe he will the next day. You have 2 birds and you don't know if one said something to the other in parrotese. One is pissed off and decides to bite the first thing that annoys him.

 

Did you or hubbie ever wake up in the morning and for no reason he says * how come the coffee isn't made already? You turn around with annoyed look and say * because I was busy with something* Both of you are pissed off, not at each other but just because that';S the way things started off that morning. An hour passes, things are back to normal and either you or hubbie says * sorry about before. I didn't sleep well. Lets just forget about it and you both smile because it was really no big deal. Then hubbie has to go to work and both of you kiss each other goodbye but that kiss is just a tiny bit longer. The whole bad experience is gone. The day continues as usual.

 

Birds have those same kinds of days. It may not happen in the morning but it simply happens for no reason.

 

If you know that your bird isn't normally a constant aggressive attack animal then what happened is just one of those things that have no reason to happen.

 

There is no exact carved in stone answer to what happened. Parrots bite and it will happen periodically. They're not perfect and that applies even more so with an older bird. It's one of those things that's temporary and I believe that you shouldn't be wringing your hands and worrying that something drastic happened.

[BaxtersMom]

Thanks Dave, I thought Baxter might have went "through something" and caused a change in his behavior. I was panicking in my head cuz it came on so unexpectedly. Baxter is usually so nice and we were both shocked at it. I guess it does make sense that he can have a bad day, too and I might have been over analyzing his behavior. But he really was biting my husband hard and did draw blood. What really surprised me was Baxter had a very mean :evil: look on his face that I have not seen before.:ohmy:

 

Today is a new day and no bites yet:) . I hope he is over his mood and we can all get along again;)

 

Thanks Dave

[Knight05]

My situation seems even worse. I'm not going to lie I'll tell the story out right how it is. I yelled at Chloe today like I would yell at my worst enemy. I was sitting here doing homework while on the phone trying to resolve student loan issues and I was on the automated portion of the phone after an hour of calls and chloe just kept squaking like the most annoying pitch you've ever heard. So i got up opened her cage so she could entertain herself while i was on the phone and she continued to do it. The first few times I told her no and/or stop in a calm voice.

 

Well long story short I told her No rather loudly the 5th or 6th time and i said it with the phone next to my mouth and the automated thing took my NO as a "end the call" reply and I was so ticked off I couldnt even think. Like 2 hours on the phone wasted. I put her back in the cage and closed the door and told that's enough i said no. Basically she did it again 30 seconds later and I lost control and shouted almost at the top of my lungs "What is you're ******* deal? I ******* told you NO!"

 

Now I know I'm wrong on multiple levels before you guys go crazy on me, you never yell at your bird and you certainly don't give it attention when it's being bad and feed the negative behaviour...... I know all this I do I was just tired, PO'd and at my witt's end. I doubt/hope it will never happen again but sometimes people have horrible days and those around us unintentionally push our buttons. I'm not saying it's right or that's a valid excuse for my actions but nothing I can do about it now. I just need to know what I should of done instead so that I can prevent things like this from happening again.

 

Chloe is almost always a good girl, but like any kid she has her violent outbursts and you just want to smack their butt. I have trouble dealing with a parrot when theyre SUPER out of control vocally or behaviour wise and I don't know what to do to handle the situation differently. I didn't lay hands on her and/or harm her and I never would, I would never harm any animal but it doesn't mean I don't get heated and mad sometimes. She's not afraid of me or anything or holding a grudge for yelling but she's not exactly dying for some cuddle time either.

 

Any comments or anything you guys could add to help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. Sorry to slightly change you're thread Baxter's mom but i figured this would be easier than starting a new one

[Dave007]

No one's gonna go crazy on you unless they're absolutely perfect and unable to commit a boo boo.

Well I hope you don't have to go thru the hell of talking to an automated recording again especially when there's stream music playing in the background. In the past I've hung up strictly out of frustration and anger besides being close to punching the wall. Ever tried calling up a satellite company when the TV loses it's signal? There are no live people answering phones anymore thanks to our wonderful digital world.

 

it's possible that if you're living alone, you make a small moveable playstand that you can keep near you while you're talking to a machine about serious problems especially when you know there's a chance that you'll be stuck there whether you want to or not. Many times, just the placement of the bird nearer to a person who can't possibly leave a situation will calm the bird down and more than likely the bird will shut up. In other situations there's another person around who can distract the bird. In your caseyou're alone. The bird can't dictate everything you do to it's own specifications.

So you yelled. You lost your temper. Everyone does that especially when that person is being egged on by a phone with no real people on the line. If you were actually talking to someone, you could have said * hold it a minute* to that person. You can't do that to a machine that's saying * press 1 for this, press 2 for that.*

You didn't hit her. Fine. That would have caused a problem.

You doubt that it will happen again. Fine. You realize it was an unusual situation that caused this whole thing to happen.

Probably the only thing that was done that could have caused a problem would have been what you said to the bird in the loud voice-- What is you're ******* deal? I ******* told you NO!" Yes, it could have scared her but even worse, she could have enjoyed that volume and the lovely words in that sentence. You really don't want her repeating it but that'll only happen if you use those words to her on a constant basis which you don't do.

We all make mistakes and the last thing you need right now is a slap on the tushy. You learned from the whole incident. You've already explained that what you did was wrong and you also said that you're sorry and will not try to let it happen again. Think about that little stand. She'll shut up while you're petting her head and you can continue to talk to the non person in the phone

 

 

[BaxtersMom]

I knew enough when I got Baxter that I could not yell, scream,hit or be rough with him from the start. So far I have kept to that. Although I'm sure there are many that do on a regular basis. My neighbor for example, said he used to have a grey a long time ago and when he seen ours he told me when they bite or do something you don't want them to do you have as he put it "Flick their beak":ohmy: I just can't imagine that :angry: and every time I see him he always asks me if I have Flicked his beak yet? I just want to cringe when he says it and I tell him I will never do that and he always tells me they "need it" I am not going to get into a discussion with him about it because he thinks he is right and there is no changing his mind about it. I'm just glad he doesn't have his grey anymore.

 

I guess we all have our moments with our greys but we have to keep our heads:)

 

What's funny about your story is the same thing happened to my husband the other day. He had a very important phone call to make and had to go through all the voice activated crap we have to go through to get anywhere and our conure loves to be in the middle of everything. Then near the end of all the voice messages he let out a big "SQUAK!!!" and he had to start all over again.:laugh:

 

My advice to everyone is go to another room for those automated phone calls;) or you'll be sorry:)<br><br>Post edited by: BaxtersMom, at: 2008/10/08 15:21

[kitt79]

If it's a very important call and Starbuck's in a mood, I give her some millet or some other rare but highly valued treat, close the door to her room and go to the other end of the house. That's normally distracting enough. If she still screeches for me and it's too important a call to miss, I'll cover the cage. Then she is quiet for a bit.

[tibanks]

My two greys definitely have their moments and days around here. Sometimes when I put granny back in her cage she will lunge towards my finger and give a good bite. I've learned to just talk and praise her now as I put her back into her cage. I make sure I have her complete attention. Also a finger that does has an earthquack could be helpful with biting. However the biting your talking about, where the bird does not want to let go, could be fear biting; Or simply anger about having to go back into the cage. Since you guys were having a hard time getting him back in where he needed to be could have been either. Anyway these things happen from time to time, hard not to make a big deal out of it as your getting bitten..but you have to try hard to keep your composure. Hope your husband will continue to be involved with Baxter, Im sure this behavior is out of his norm..and he was just having a parrot moment.

[BaxtersMom]

Things seem to be back to normal. My husband hasn't picked him up yet but he is talking to him and petting him. He is still the same little angel with me as always:) I think we stressed him out the first time my husband got bit and it carrier over into the next day. We were in a hurry and it wasn't the normal "go in the cage" routine. The way he bit, full beak and lots of pressure the earthquake wouldn't have helped on that I don't think.:blink: He had a really good grip. I have learned something from it though. That something like this might happen from time to time and not to think he is not a biter. I had in my head that my bird would not bit for some reason but reality has definately set in. Thanks everyone for your comments. It was such a big and unexpected issue I kind of freaked out but we are fine again.

[Anmlhggr]

Everytime Woody sees my cell phone he starts his call rutine: "Hello....alright...ok, see ya...thanks...bye - BEEP" and just keeps doing it over and over and over (with slight varations) until I hang up haha :laugh:

[danmcq]

These are all great replies from those contributing their vast knowledge and common sense gained over year of experience. :-)

 

Backsters Mom ;-) - I truly believe he's just letting you guys know he does not want to go back to his cage or wherever you may be wanting to move him to. I run into this with Dayo and so does the love of is life, my wife. They have very strong wills and if they decide moving or stepping up is not something they wish to do, they will indicate that by the most effective way they have, their beak. They do the same in the wild to get their mate to move, leave them alone etc. I do wish they would use the Wing slap to the face we see in comedies, but thats not real world :-). I know by Dayos body language when he is not in the mood to step up. I offer the closed fist back of my hand for him to step up on, not my hand in a blade with the index finger being the top target for a strong bite. He has learned that he can not bite the tight skin on the back of the hand and when he sees it coming he may try, fail and step up as I just keep pushing forward under his belly and against his legs. The bite is not an indication of his progress going backwards or a dislike for your husband personally. It is just Baxter letting you or your husband know his objection to the move. :-)

 

Knight - You are human and we let people know when were pissed off, as Dave said. To be as honest as you, I yelled at my Human kids and Grand Kids when pissed at the noise level when trying to talk on the phone or to another person sitting directly in front of me. :-) We all feel bad after the fact, but it will still happen over time, the moods bad, stress level, blood pressure and the desire to choke the living S**t out of the other person or automated system your trying to communicate with and the an insufferable annoyance of loud sounds begins in the same room and now you have reached your last straw and flame on. Been their, done that :-). Now I can just just turn around, give them the Devil stare of death and everyone shuts the hell up so I can finish my conversation. :evil: B)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/10/07 15:36

[BaxtersMom]

Thanks Dan. I have learned so much with this experience and definately know I'm not above getting bit now:laugh: My husband did have the closed fist approach but Baxter must have known there is still the fleshy part between the thumb and first finger that is still exposed:silly: Thats what he grabbed on my husband. Maybe that is why he actually did step up on his hand so he could get a better grip on it. Darn bird is too smart for his own good.{Nature-0002009B}

[danmcq]

LOL Baxtersmom - They are smart and that piece of flesh is so soft they can inflict severe pain easily. :pinch:

 

ext time, have your husband wobble his hand a little if he sees Baxter starting to go down for a nip. :-)

 

That will throw him off balance slightly and he will right himself, rather than continue the bite move.

[BaxtersMom]

Excellent tip Dan. Trouble is they act quicker than we can think LOL:laugh: But that would probably work.