The Cameroon Grey

[Luvparrots]

According to Jean Pattison, "When people refer to Ghana, Togo, Cameroon, Congo and Angola Greys, they are referring to the region or country from which these parrots originated. These are their 'street Names' and they refer to 'variations,' not subspecies.

 

"The Cameroon Greys that most people erroneously refer to in the United States are large silver Greys. However, these Greys actually came from the old Congo, turned Zaire, and now turned back to Congo region. Originally, the Congo exported their birds, and they were the largest and lightest in color, the Congo Grey. The Congo ceased exporting their birds, but during this era, Africa was exporting birds out of Ghana, Togo, Cameroon and other countries. But of course, by this time the term Congo Grey was a permanent "generic " label for any red tail.

 

Trappers in Africa were trapping birds in Zaire (the old Congo) and smuggling them to Cameroon. Cameroon would then legally export them out of Africa (legal, but NOT legal). So we in the United States received birds from Zaire* (475-600+ grams) with papers saying the birds originated in Cameroon; and on top of that we continued to also receive birds that actually did originate in Cameroon (425-500 grams). Brokers decided to get more money for the larger parrots, thus marketing them as Cameroon Greys (also, they had to since it was illegal to have Zaire/Congo birds), and then they sold the smaller darker birds as the common generic, Congo Grey (any red tail). Are you confused yet? If not, try this... We now have Cameroon Greys that are really Congo in origin, Zaire Greys that were imported out of Togo; therefore, so much for the 'street names'. HOWEVER, after all is said and done, they are ALL one and the same subpecies, the nominate Psittacus erithacus erithacus."

 

*Note: Importation of wild caught parrots into the Unitied States ceased in 1992 with the enactment of the Wild Bird Conservation Act.

 

Jean Pattison is the Chairman of the African Parrot Society.

[BMustee]

Most "exporters" would jumble all the greys into crates all mixed up and would label the larger greys as being of Cameroon orgin. Congo Greys as a name is not just a generic name ether. There are only two official subspecies...the "Psittacus erithacus erithacus'' which is the Congo and the ''Psittacus erithacus timneh'' which is the Timneh. Notce how there are no wierd sub-subspecies of the Timneh grey? There was no market for a spin-off like there was for the Congos. I have seen enough TAGs in my day to notice some are bigger than others and some are darker than others.

 

As for their being a difference in the coloring and size depending on the region of orgin, I'm sure there is a difference. But, unless you have a wild cought Grey you more than likely have a mix of regional ginetics. My Elmo's parrents looked very different from one another. Her mother was a HUGE dark grey, but her father was a smaller lighter grey. Elmo came out looking like her father...weighing in at 385g and has a light silver color...but if I bred her I might get a huge dark grey out of her. So basicly if you have a captive bred bird you really can't say it's a Camroon, Togo, Gabon, or any other distinct region, it's more of a pot-luck now.

[danmcq]

Whats sad, is some breeders actually suck people in for a little more $$$ claiming "Cameroon" greys, as if they are special in some way from other Congo's, of which, they are not.

 

The truth is, a Congo, is a Congo, is a Congo.....

 

As with all critters and humans, the area in which they live and the abundance of foods and types dictates slight differences in bone density, size and weight accordingly.

 

This is a good topic to have been started. Especially for new Congo owners or ones that are thinking of getting one. It will atleast alert them to the fact that some people try to classify Congos by region they MAY have come from in Africa. But, the reality is, they are a Congo and not a "Special" sub-species.

 

As BMustee stated though, most Greys coming from breeders are not from a specific region in Africa, the are from the local breeders cage and if they happen to have a set of large boned, light gray Congo's, their offspring will have the same genetics as their Mom and Dad, just like us humans do. :-) Got big parents? your gonna be big. Got small parents? your gonna be small....etc.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/10/04 14:38

[dblhelix]

http://www.africanature.com/Project%20Africa/wildgreys.htm

[Tycos_mom]

I agree with all of this I have a very large Grey with very dark feathers so she is obviously a all mixed up Congo and who cares anyway a grey is a grey is a grey and they are all wonderful no matter what part of Africa they came from origanally they are from here now. Our birds where born in our country not Africa mabie we should give them a north american name LOL oh yea they already have one they are all African Grey Congo or African Grey Timnehs.<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2008/10/05 21:37

[kar2nz]

Casper is quite petite for a Grey. I don't remember the exact weight the doctor said he was, but she did comment that he was a bit smaller than normal. Also, she said he was a bit darker than normal. We have no plans for breeding him, so i guess it doesn't matter what subspecies he is. All that really matters to us is that he seems to be fitting in quite well. From your description though, Casper certainly wouldn't be a Cameroon Grey.

 

P.S. I looked up Jean Pattison, and read the article you may have been referring to. Casper sounds like the Ghana variety she describes. He's tiny and dark charcoal grey with bright red tail feathers.

[she]

Nice picture. My Charlie is quite big at 500 gms and sort of light grey. I just term him as a cag.Blue my cousing grey is a bit darker and about 450 gms,we weighed him last time I had him stay. Charlie just gets on the scale when I say lets see if you are a fat man.I just refere to Congo and Timneh greys.They are all fantastic birds.

[Char]

Well my Grey is petite and light colored so I guess she is all mixed up.:lol:

[ZivaDiva]

Old-ish thread but happy to see it being a newbie and all. There's a local bird store with a well respected owner AKA the bird lady. She has hand fed babies for sale. Ready?

 

TAG's - $1,100

Congo's - $1,200 and, yes wait for it

Camaroon's for $1,300!

 

I'm tempted to stop by or call and ask what the differece is just for a laugh. (But, I am afraid I'll fall in love!)

[redkim]

Hey ZD,

 

Is that Karen in Torrance? Birds n more? I got my CAG baby from her and while I don't know about the Cameroon deal the baby I have is WONDERFUL!! She sure does do a great job with the birds she raises. I know she is great about emails - you can always email her and ask the Cameroon question.I found her to be very open and informative - it would be interesting to see her answer to this.

[poochbabe]

I am not sure but Ganesha is really large and lighter in color, but he has no wings so it is hard to tell...still plucking a lot but he has a few tail shoots coming in and I am hoping they will stay put.

[Ernzzz]

As a Grey newbie(I won't have my grey for another 8~ weeks) I found this very interesting and after researching it really fired me up about scamming the public when in fact you really don't know... !:angry: :angry:

[ranaz]

Kookie is rather large and very light in color, my brothers grey on the other hand, Coukoo is petite and very dark.

Ive heard that the smaller darker ones, have more speech abilities, although their voice is generally lower. They are able to repeat long sentences and their vocabulary count is much more.

 

Kookie, wo is large and light is very lound, you can hear him around the block I would say...

 

What do you say???

 

[Mistyparrot]

I am not sure Ranaz, except you have a very good looking Grey there and judging by the way he looks in the mirror he thinks so as well :laugh:

 

Misty looks similar to Kookie and he talks a great deal but either he is not very loud as parrots go or I am going deaf:ohmy:

 

Steve n Misty

[ecodweeb]

I have a large silverish female and a small darker male.

 

The male certainly speaks in a lower tone, but has a very limited vocabulary.

 

The female grunts and gurgles and has a massive vocabulary.

 

It's like looking at Eminem and Queen Latifa when they stand next to each other. Easily 100 grams difference in weight, she's his complete length (male's beak to tail tip) just beak to butt, not tail feathers!

[Joolesgreyuk]

This is a great post and one I've not seen before as I'm relatively new on here.

 

Beau is small compared to many Congos and quite dark too. Yes I would say he's quiet and showing signs of being quite talkative. He's a bit like his owner - a crazy mixed-up kid ;-)<br><br>Post edited by: Joolesgreyuk, at: 2009/11/24 20:12

[ranaz]

This thread is interesting, so guess there might be some differnces between thecongo and the cameroon greys. Hope to har more from members on this.

 

Thanks Steve, so you say Misty is not very loud...good for you, cos Kookie is so loud, he will drive me deaf very soon. When i say loud its not only the whistling that ripps off your ear drum, its even his speach which is very loud in general. The funny thing though is that early morning, when he is in his sleep cage covered in a blanket, he talks and sings with very low voice, as if he kows Im still sleeping...very cute..<br><br>Post edited by: ranaz, at: 2009/11/25 14:07

[Dave007]

There isn't anything different about a *Cammeroon* grey and other greys. It's a subject that's been discussed in many different places and after proper investigation, the final result is always the same. Cammeroon is a certain place in Zaire which has african greys. There's many other places in Africa that also has them. No matter where a bird comes from, you'll seen different shades of color, different sizes of the species. Many known people who profess to say there's a difference, are usually giving opinions. There was a time when it was desired to get a Cammeroon grey. As soon as others who dealt with those birds here saw that people who wanted them started paying much higher prices for them. They were getting ripped off. Yet, it stills goes on today. On boards you'll see the occasional person asking where they can find that bird. Yet, it's only breeders that say they have them. They're taking advantage of people who don't know any better. To those breeders, the phrase *there's a sucker born everyday* fits perfectly.

Large sized greys come from large sized parents. The same holds true for any other different sized greys.

Many times color ( very light--very silver ) has to do with the description of *Cammeroon greys*. It's also said that their large size has to do with being a *Cammeroon grey*

I have 3 pairs of breeder greys and none are the exact same shade. Also, all of them are extremely large boned greys which causes the chicks to be large boned. My breeders start at the size of 545 gms up to 601 gms but their weight slightly fluctuates all the time. If I wanted to, I could slightly change the grey coloring of the chicks simply by changing the ingredients of their formula but I don't because it's a waste of time.

It seems that color means something as far as the large size that people desire but what many newer potential owners never do is to go into the hundreds of photos scattered here throughout the years. If people did that it would be obvious that they're also small, medium sized greys who's color is very different from the next one. Light to dark,different shades of tail color. None of these different smaller birds ever came from Cammeroon. All of this also applies to TAGs. Different colors of the tail, more or less bone colored beaks, more marroon or ash grey in the tails larger or smaller boned sizes of the birds.

Very little conversation ever comes up when speaking about the color variations of these smaller birds other than to say that 'my bird is darker or my bird is lighter'.

Cammeroon was an area where it was extremely easy to capture birds. The reason many birds there were larger was because the amount and type of food was more abundant. Only government sanctions and certain laws that were enacted stopped the capturing of these birds and it took a long time to inforce these new rules because Cammeroon was in the middle of no where.

Go into a pet shop and look at all the budgies. Look at the most common ones who will be the least expensive. Look at the blue ones and the green ones. There will be slight color differences in the blue colored ones and the green colored ones. There will be slightly smaller and slightly bigger ones. Do these slight differences mean anything?

Look at Finland--the people are very white.

Look at the surrounding countries--many shades of light white, many shades of blond hair. Does it mean anything?<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/11/25 20:08

[ranaz]

Thank you Dave for your clarification, I guess you have settled things once and for all, and we wont ask about it any more

 

Dark or silver, large or small, we love our greys and it doesnt matter