Stronger Feathers

[Matthew]

Tucker, my 2 year old CAG keeps breaking his flight feathers. It mostly happens from sheer clumsiness and playing too rough in his cage. He is also constantly breaking his tail feathers during his not so graceful landings. I know it's fairly common for young greys to break feathers, but it makes an already clumsy bird much more so.

 

I've also noticed his broken flight feathers seem fairly dry and brittle. I try to give him regular baths, but he keeps his wings firmly at his sides and the water never seems to get to all the feathers in his wings. I've also been supplementing his diet with organic red palm oil, which has made the rest of his feathers look really healthy, but he's still breaking his flight feathers.

 

Does anyone have any advice on helping a grey grow stronger feathers? He's finally grown new feathers, and has already broken two off.

[judygram]

Matthew, some greys do play rough with their toys and maybe that is what is happening to Tucker's feathers and when you bathe him and he does not help any by fluffing up his feathers so the water can get down to the skin its hard to get their skin wet. I know for Josey does not like showers and it is hard to get their feathers wet because of the oil on them from the preen gland.

 

I am inclined to think it may be something dietary he is missing that is causing the feather shaft to be more brittle and easier to break but I don't know what it may be. Some of the other members who are more knowledgeable than I am will be able to shed more light on the subject.

[nims]

Hi Matthew,

 

Your doing the right thing with the palm oil and bathing. What's Tuckers current diet like?

 

Thanks

 

Nims

[lovemyGreys]

A vitamin A deficiency would contribute to dull / weak looking feathers, The richest and most natural source of vitamin A is found in dark leafy greens,spinach,kale,broccoli, peas,collard greens,turnip greens etc..be sure to include some of these in his diet

[Matthew]

I'll admit I should be better about Tucker's diet. His base is Pretty Bird African Special pellets. That's what the breeder used. I also try to give him Bean Cuisine for hookbills mixed with red palm oil and mixed organic fruits and vegetables every night. Lately I've had a lot going on, so I don't manage to make him a full meal every night. It's also pretty hit or miss as to weather he'll eat it. Some days he dives right in and others won't touch it. I really do need to be more regular about his nightly meals, but I've just been so busy.

 

The red palm oil should be giving him enough vit. A. I'm starting to wonder if he's deficient in vitamin D. His pellets have D3 in them, but I've read that birds can't use D3. Does everyone have lights on their birds? I've always worried he'd chew the wire. He loves hanging out on top of his cage.

 

Also, does anyone use any of those bath sprays on their greys? I've heard you shouldn't use ones with oils in them on greys because they use powder to groom not oil. I also wonder what chlorine does to their feathers. Our water is really bad here.

[lovemyGreys]

Matthew try switching his meals around,especially when it comes to his fruits & veggies,i find with mine sometimes they will eat their veg other nights it ends up on the floor,i give them different things so no two evening meals are the same,one night pulses,one night veggies etc..

 

Here is a link on lighting which is worth reading through...

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/african-grey/47809-lighting.html

 

I know some members have used the bottled sprays but i don't personally.Im sure the chlorine levels are safe in your water as they do have to be regulated & as such be at a safe level.

[Dave007]

Matthew

 

""""""I'm starting to wonder if he's deficient in vitamin D. His pellets have D3 in them, but I've read that birds can't use D3. Does everyone have lights on their birds?""""""

 

You've got it backwards. It's the D3 that's needed, not VitD.

That either comes from foods that have D3 added or more commonly, the outside UV sunlight which supplies all the D3 that the bird could possibly need. Unfortunately, quite a few years ago the UV rays all windows were made with that special UV filtered out. That's why full spectrum lighting became popular.

[Matthew]

Actually there are three forms of vitamin D; D2, D3 and D4. D2 is the vegetable based form and in humans only about 50% is used by the body (1000mg only gives you 500mg). D3 is usually sourced from fish or wool (lanolin). It's believed to be better utilized in humans than D2. D4 is the form your body makes when exposed to the sun. It's also believed that the body converts D2 and D3 into D4 before it can use it.

 

From what I've read, greys native diet doesn't contain any foods which contain vitamin D in any form. It's believed they get it all from the sun. Because of this, they may not have the proper enzymes and such to convert D2 or D3 to the usable form D4. There's also some concern that supplemental vitamin D could build up in the fat to toxic levels over time.

 

Does anyone here use full spectrum lights on their birds? Do they seem to like them and sit under it? They would have to sit pretty close to a florescent light to get anything from it. Have you noticed any major change in their feathers?

 

(edited for a spelling error)<br><br>Post edited by: Matthew, at: 2008/09/22 00:38

[danmcq]

Your right that in the wild, they receive all the vitamin "D" they need due to the sunlight they receive.

 

Actually, Vitamin D, the sunshine vitamin, is known to be an immunity enhancer. Provitamins D are found in both plant and animal tissue. In the plant form, ergocalciferol is classified as vitamin D2, and is known as calciferol; vitamin D3 or cholecalciferol, is the natural form as it occurs in fish oils. Vitamin D2 is produced by irradiation with ultraviolet light of ergosterol in plant sources such as yeast or fungi; and vitamin D3 is synthesized by the action of ultraviolet light on 7-dehydrocholesterol in the skin. Vitamin D is not immediately activated, but requires enzyme conversion by the liver into 25-hydroxycholecalciferol, and then by kidney into the active form, 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol before it becomes fully utilized. Full spectrum lighting (Phillips, Lumichrome,Vita-Lights, OTT lights and many ohers) can be useful as an artificial substitute for the natural ultraviolet light from sunlight. The active form of vitamin D is manufactured in response to the secretion of the parathyroid hormone, which helps to increase the uptake of calcium when blood calcium levels are low. Those birds who have kidney or liver disorders may not be able to convert vitamin D to the active form.

 

Vitamin D is important for the absorption of calcium from the intestine, and in the breakdown and assimilation of phosphorus, for the normal depositing of these minerals into bones, for normal growth and development. This fat soluble vitamin in conjunction with calcium is valuable in maintaining a stable nervous system, normal heart action and normal blood clotting. All fat-soluble vitamins require at least a small amount of fat in the diet, along with the secretion of bile acids for absorption to take place, for it is not readily excreted, and is stored in the liver, skin, brain, bones and other tissues. Vitamin D is best utilized when taken with vitamin A for a boost to the immune system. These two vitamins, taken along with vitamin C, act as a preventive measure against infection and also increase the absorption of calcium. Food sources include: fish-liver oil, egg yolk and sunflower seeds, to name a few. Fish-liver oils are the best source of vitamins A and D. The liquid calcium (CML) we use contains fish-liver oil in its vitamin D3 source.

 

If you perform a search for lighting, you will find a study I perform on UVB/UVA and the best lighting system for our birds.

 

I wound up building my own to ensure that regardless of distance, my Grey gets all the UVB he needs and UVA for the visual spectrum they can see in. The complete build project is in that same thread with photos and lamps chosen for best UVA/UVB output at safe levels for them to be in for 12 hours a day.

 

I hope this helps in your endeavors to overcome the weak feather structure your Grey seems to be suffering from.

[Matthew]

I'm assuming that information is how it's processed in humans. Do we have any information on how well birds can utilize vitamin D supplements? Are you saying that D3 in his pellets should be enough for him? If that's the case he shouldn't be deficient in vitamin D which would mean lights wouldn't help with the feathers. So is the belief behind light more to do with the colors birds see in?

[danmcq]

The information I posted is how it is processed in Birds. If you are feeding your Grey a Pellet Diet that has Vitamin D3 in it, full spectrum lighting is not needed for the synthesis of vitamin D.

 

However, birds see in the UVA range and if you wish for your bird to see the world in the way it was intended to see, then avian lighting is still a must for him.

 

Weak Feathers are more attributable to other dietary issues, rather than that of Vitamin D3 or Calcium.

 

Feathers comprise a large percentage of total body protein. They are generally rich in sulphur amino acids, with dietary deficiencies evidenced in curvature of the rachis, abnormal persistence of the basal sheath, and misshapen vanes. Inadequate dietary lysine decreases feather strength. Dietary deficiencies of methionine result in dark, horizontal “stress lines” on feathers, while excesses are correlated with soft, weak feathers. Tyrosine and phenylalanine are important factors in melanin production in feathers.

 

Production of sheaths during molt can increase protein requirements 4-8% per day compared to maintenance requirements but this is often met from increased food intake rather than a diet higher in protein.

 

I am not sure of which pelleted diet your Grey may be on or how much he is actually consuming, but I would suspect a protein deficiency.

 

You may want to raise the amount of protein your Grey is getting by feeding nuts, such as Almonds, Walnuts, Shelled peanuts etc. You can also raise the protein level while address a possible lysine deficiency at the same time by feeding scrambled whole eggs and some other good sources of lysine are found in cheese,Lima beans and cooked potatoes.

[Dave007]

Ok,Dan

Anything you SAY is cool with me! AND I CAN SEE that you DID SAID something WITH FERVOR!!!!! I've just purchased your well know book Bright World On the Horizon that you recently published. I'm all aglow just waiting to read PAGE 1. I feel that it will be an enlightening experience.

 

PS--when I have my milk and cookies tonight, I'll be thinking of you.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/09/22 01:28

[danmcq]

LOL Dave, I am glad you are picking up one of my Illuminating books. :-) Better get your shades out though B)

[Matthew]

Dave007 wrote:

Ok,Dan

Anything you SAY is cool with me! AND I CAN SEE that you DID SAID something WITH FERVOR!!!!! I've just purchased your well know book Bright World On the Horizon that you recently published. I'm all aglow just waiting to read PAGE 1. I feel that it will be an enlightening experience.

 

PS--when I have my milk and cookies tonight, I'll be thinking of you.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/09/22 01:28

 

Um...what?