Separating 2 Greys? Plz help.

[dal]

Two years ago I purchased 2 African Greys from a woman.

Joey is a Timneh (no idea of age, maybe 15) She told me she had gotten him from a man who had abused him and he was quite afraid.

Lucy is a CAG and again maybe abit younger. She did not tell me where she got her. She had put them in the same cage and was selling their young. Telling people they were CAGs.

I took them home and let her have her eggs for awhile (they were infertile). I then separated the 2 and put them in cages side by side. Lucy only likes men and does not even like it when I feed her. When I first tried to pick up Joey I got a few good scars. I have been working with him and he has gotten to the point where he will stick out him leg and let me kiss him. (from the safety of his cage) Outside he will let me near and seems to enjoy our visit. He climbs down and walks around the house sometimes. We are timid of each other. I am not looking forward to another bite.

My question is, Lucy like my uncle and is willing for him to take her out. He would like to have her and I am willing to give her to him. (he has cockateils, a blue crowned conure and some finches) He lives 10 hours way so they would not be able to visit each other.

I would like to keep Joey but am worried that it may not be good for him to be without another bird. I would really miss him and I do love him but I want to do what is best for him.

As I type they are in there talking back and forth. Please tell me your opinions. Thanks

[danmcq]

It sounds as though these two have been breeders most their lives. They do mate for life and do not make the greatest "Pets" as you have found.

 

It seems that you have made good progress with them and having successfully separated them, that is out of they way too (Different cages).

 

They loss of a mate happens in the wild also and they seek out and find another. Your uncle taking Lucy should be fine and your uncle sounds like a perfect home that knows parrots.

 

In regards Joey, it would be best to keep him, if you have the time and patience to invest. He will further blossom and become closer to you when he no longer has Lucy around.

 

You will need to over come your fear of being bitten, they can sense that and read your body language. Just try to read his and adjust your hand offering to ensure you do not take a bite if at all possible.

 

I guess the bottom line is, do you have the time and strong desire to keep Joey and provide him a good and loving home? :-)

[siobha9]

dal wrote:

She had put them in the same cage and was selling their young. Telling people they were CAGs.

I took them home and let her have her eggs for awhile (they were infertile).

 

A CAG and a TAG cannot breed together as they are different species. She could not have any young from them. And as you saw any eggs she may have laid would be infertile.

[judygram]

Dal, if you really want to keep Joey and could provide him with a loving home and are willing to work with him to bond with you then keep him but you need to get over the fear of being bitten again for it will happen. You can try balling your hand into a fist when you see a bite coming.

 

Why don't you introduce yourself in the welcome room and tell us a little more about you and Joey.

[Mistyparrot]

I am not so sure that a TAG and a CAG could not breed. I have heard of other species of birds cross breading although the mules produced are normally infertile. TAGs and CAGs are very closely related. Lions and Tigers can produce Tigons and Ligons and Dogs and Wolves can cross breed. So can Horses and Donkeys and Horses and Zebra. This is one way that evolution can produce new species especially in stressed environments.

 

Steve n Misty

[danmcq]

A TAG and CAG can certainly breed together. They are basically the same species, like Canines, but just looking a little physically different.

 

There are a few breeders that have and do have TAG/CAG pairs and produce cross breeds. This practice is looked down upon by most. There really is no reason to cross breed them. :-)

[Kaedyn]

I'm glad someone finally said it. I've seen a lot of posts on the forum stating that CAGs and TAGs can not be cross breed, but that wasn't my impression. I've encountered several greys that were considered hybrids. I've even seen breeders supply certificates that state the bird you received is a true Congo or a true Timneh, meaning not a cross.

[siobha9]

Obviously I was misinformed:unsure:

[Dave007]

CAGs and TAGs won't naturally breed together. Breeders of either or both TAGs and CAGs can artifically cause this to happen and they're unscrupulous . First of all, the natural incubation time is different. An incubator is an absolute necessity. Any mixing of the two will produce a weak strain. The size of the internal organs are different. The body size of each bird is different causing any type of sexual copulation ( rubbing against each other) to be unsuccessful. In the wild they're not attracted to each other at all. Each type lives in a flock environment and those 2 different flocks don't mingle with each other and they purposely avoid each other. Their personalities are totally different. They don't cohabitate in the wild. If a TAG/CAG mixed bird actually DID exist in the wild, neither flock would accept it.

Saying that the two can mix because they're the same species is wrong because one is a sub species of the other. They're not brothers or sisters, they're cousins.

There are about 15 known species of amazons. Even though the yellow naped, yellow crowned, double yellow headed amazons are all green and all look alike except for where the yellow is located on the head/neck, none will naturally breed with each other. It takes a trained eye to see the difference between an orange wing and green wing amazon. They also look alike but they too won't breed with each other.

 

To the person who mentioned tigers and lions breeding together, that offspring can't be released into the wild. That Liger is a mule and can't reproduce. In the wild, it won't be accepted by a pride of lions. A tiger on the other hand is a lone animal. Eventually it must leave the family group and go out on it's own. A lion is just the opposite. They remain together as a pride/family and one lion can't survive on it's own because hunting is done as a group. A lone lion can't be successful when hunting. They also have a heavy maternal bonding with each other which causes them to stay together.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/09/08 01:28

[Kaedyn]

So the real answer is really somewhere in the middle! Now my question is, what advantage do these breeders have in mixing the two? Is it just a sales gimmick?

[Dave007]

Basically yes, the name is sales gimmick. They're people out who are just waiting for the novice/uninformed person who is thinking about buying a grey. A good salesman can easily convince a person that what he/she has is a special bird. Luckily, that type of thing rarely goes on. If that kind of practice heavily existed, there would loads of * for sale* ads talking about the so called *mix*. Many people are gullible. I've seen TAGs sold at a higher price simply because that particular bird had a slight amount of extra red in the tail but they're still a pure strain. The bird is not more or less valuable but a person can be convinced otherwise. I've seen overweight TAGs sold as a *mixture of the two. How can someone do that? Well, first off there's a overweight TAG that's bigger than a normal sized TAG. People are told that it is actually a mix because of it's heavier size and people believe it. Another instance of unscrupulous salesmen are the ones that say that they have *cammaroon greys* for sale. That name applies to a certain area where greys habituate. There's no difference between those greys and other greys that live in nearby areas other than they might be slightly longer and their gray coloring is ever so slightly lighter. As a matter of fact, that's the same area that caused the importation of greys to become illegal. All of my greys, be they pets or breeders are over 530 grams. The largest being 606 grams. Their colors slightly differ from each other but none ever came from Cammaroon. They're no more valuable than smaller greys. The only bird I own that doesn't fit into that catagory is my TAG. He's 320 grams and as a side note to my TAG--he has absolutely no marroon/red coloring in his tail. From the base to the tips his tail, it's is almost totally ash gray to black.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/09/08 18:27

[Sallas]

My TAG has a VERY VERY dark red tail, it looks almost blackish, but you can see the hint of maroon, until you get to the top 3/4 inch of her tail. That is bright red. I know most TAGs are not like this though, but like humans each bird is an individual.

[danmcq]

Yep, Dave hit the nail on the head. A Sales gimmic that they have a "Special" and "Rare" bird for a very high price of course.

 

The bottom line is it is a forced mutation.

 

The point is, they can breed together and produce a mutant offspring. The resulting babies will suffer for it due to health issues and shorter life spans in most cases.