Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Greetings Everyone! I've been searching the web, trying to find some good documentation on the grey's growth phases. All I'm coming up with are documents re: hand feeding and stages of growth. Since February Bella gained 50 grams. She's now 550 gr. and I don't know if that is normal growth or if she's just a little porker! I can feel her keel bone and she seems fit and healthy. She's very active -zipping around the house, flapping her wings like crazy and she plays and plays and plays, but she also eats like a horse! So, I don't know if she's just a big girl, or if we need to change some things in her diet. She turned a year on May 10, so I wish I knew if she had a juvenile growth spurt or what. Any good references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!! Terri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Wow, 550 is big. I would suspect she may be a little over weight. They are normally at their "Full-Grown" state and wieght after they fledge, which is around 14 to 18 weeks. After the initial weight drop associated with fledging, they gain back their normal weigh. You will probably need to start "rationing" the quantities of each food she is allowed to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmclean Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 wish i could help you out terri, chloe is 5 months old and she is big for her age to so i dont know how much bigger she is going to get, she eats all the time to but that is good at least i know she is heathly lol, sorry not much help here but if you do find out let us know please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Yes, Dan I was wondering that too, particularly because she held 500 grams for most of the year, and then suddenly packed it on! But, again - I can feel her keel bone with no problem and she doesn't seem over weight. She's 14.5 inches long, so, she's not a small girl. She's also so active - I mean you know how they say muscle weighs more then fat? I'm wondering since her flight feathers are growing in and she's really working her wings out if she's not building muscle? I know - sounds silly :laugh: I mean she looks great -t hose new feathers that have come in are lovely - they look like they're painted on her! Well - in my search for references I did find a good article that addressed a number of topics that come up here: http://www.africangreys.com/articles/other/bringbaby.htm<br><br>Post edited by: Nychsa, at: 2008/06/22 15:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hi Susan! No problem They really are like our kids aren't they! I know I was always watching my kids like a hawk as they were growing up :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Well Terri, Bella could just be a big birdy with massive muscles too. Really, only you can tell by feeling her and judging how much she's eating and of what. :-) But, I do know they are fully grown at 6 months of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Well... let's see what is she eating: She has two main meals/day - breakfast and dinner. Breakfast consists of two variations on a theme - I either make her an oatmeal musli of sorts that has flax seeds in it, lactose free milk, berries of sorts, kiwi or apples or melons, a splash of wild flower honey. That usually is about a cup of food. I'd say of that, she eats 3/4 of it. What ever she doesn't eat, I pick up before I go to work. Or I'll make her scrambled egg with some form of vegie and flax seeds mixed in - broccoli, spinach, kale. I also give her a wedge of orange or a bit of fruit on the side. That too is about 1 cup of food and that she usually eats up. The vegies she sucks out the juice or shreds them, so I don't think she's getting a lot of fiber there! But, what ever she does leave, I pick up. While I'm gone I have a bit of pellet/seed mix in her bowl - she does eat that, but not often - she's not big into dry stuff. I usually hang some celery or apples in her cage to munch on. Maybe one stick or so Dinner - she eats a wide variety of things with me - either way, it's about a cup of food, but there I think she's more into the flavor then in actually eating. She seems to eat a lot less in the evening. We have things like rice, pasta, Israeli couscous, vegies, a bit of meat - she always eats the meat. So I don't know - does that sound excessive? It seems to be in line with what I've been reading Greys should have.. What does Dayo eat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblhelix Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 If she is getting in flights and flying more, the muscle build up will definitely add "healthy" weight. In addition, the addition of full flights adds some weight as well. Granted each feather is light, but cumulatively they add up a bit. The biggest factor is the muscle build up, not doubt. I would not worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Aaah, ok Helix - I was wondering about muscle weight - she's not flying yet, but she is testing her wings out constantly - she'll flap and flap and flap until she's breathing heavy! So, I know she's giving herself a good work out. She does that like three or four times/day. I'm going to go look on that anatomy page and see if it shows the muscle groups and see what she's building up there. Maybe I can enter her into a Miss Grey Universe contest get her a personal trainer, gloss up her new flight wings :laugh: She likes watching Dayo's videos - I can just see her putting the squeeze on him "Comere Honey!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I agree with Mark, the extra weight of full primaries will add a little weight... couple grams. The muscle is the big factor in adding "Good" weight. Dayo never eats the large quantities you are describing. If I place bowls of veggies, nuts, seeds and Harrison's pellets in his cage first thing in the morning. He will eat maybe a 1/4 cup total with all combined. Evenings he will eat some fruit like apples, grapes mango etc., but only 1/16th cup at most. Then he will eat some more Harrison's/Seed/Veggies and a speck total off a dinner plate once the thrown and thrashed food is deducted. I would venture to estimate he eats no more than a half cup of everything combined at night - night time. His weight stays steady at 425 to 450 all the time. he is around 14 1/2 to 15 inches long also best measurements I can get head to tail tip. Are you weighing Bella first thing in the morning, right after she lets the "Bomb" go and before she eats anything? Thats the best method to establish a consistent weight. :-) If it is at varying times in the day, she could have 30 to 50 grams of food in the crop/system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hey Dan! wow - ok - Dayo is eating a lot less than she is. See, Bella won't touch pellets, so I try to hit all the right vitamin groups by really giving her a wide variety of foods. Are pellets more filling then fruits and vegies? I had a whole bag of Harrisons and she told me exactly where I could put those pellets! :blink: Then my avian vet told me to feed fresh and leave the pellets, particularly since she doesn't care for them. But since the pellets provide all those vitamins, I try to compensate with fresh foods. I do weigh her first thing in the morning after the "bomb" :laugh: In fact, I don't let her jump on me until she unloads that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblhelix Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Attached is a graph of Kip's weight progression from when we got her at around 7 months age (1/26/07). The "flat" data pretty much represent intervals where I did not record, so I just repeated the last measurment until the next, making the data not 100% accurate but still a pretty good representation of the overall trends. Weighings are consistent morning recordings, after the "bomb"! You can see a weight drop when we brought her home, probaly fairly typical of the stress with a new home, owners etc. She is a petite girl and seems to have currently stabilized around 400 Grams. All her flights were regrown (she was clipped when we got her) at around 16 months (so around 10/26/07 date). She really started flying a lot then too and her weight also started a pretty steady and singnificant inrease around the same time. She's about 14" long, tail to head but that is tough to measure exactly since it depends how tall they stand! She eats corn, broccoli, carrots, almonds, pine nuts, bean supreme, figs and grapes every day in the "fresh food" offering. She also always has a seed mix and some pellets available... <br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/06/22 20:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi Mark! Thank you for the info! So, you brought Kip home at 7 months - and it looks like she was right around 365 grams? is that correct? It looks like Bella is built quite differently. I brought her home at 4 months,and she already weighed 460 grams. So, she's about 100 grams heavier then Kip. Well, I'll keep an eye on it and see if she's just gaining becasue she's positioning herself to fly or if she's spending too much time in front of the TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Greys are not known to be one of the species that has problems with obesity. It's usually the other way around. Amazons have a big problem with obesity as well as eclectus. Grey's weight size has to do with the catagory they fall into as far as small, medium and bigboned frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblhelix Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi, When we brought Kip home she weighed 364g. She dropped as low as 352g and has now clocked in at a record 404g. Yes, it sounds like Kip is much smaller framed than Bella. But, the relative weight changes I noted for Kip "may" be a proportional representation of what one can expect. Of course, w/o more data from other birds to compare its really tough to make any true conclusions with such a small sample size. One thing I can say is that I believe Kips weight fluctuations are a pretty good example of what may be seen in a healthy bird as they mature, put on muscle etc. B)<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/06/22 22:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dave007 wrote: Greys are not known to be one of the species that has problems with obesity. It's usually the other way around. Amazons have a big problem with obesity as well as eclectus. Grey's weight size has to do with the catagory they fall into as far as small, medium and bigboned frames Dave, that's a good thing to know! How can one tell if one's grey is bigboned or over weight? Is the only measure the keel bone measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 dblhelix wrote: Hi, When we brought Kip home she weighed 364g. She dropped as low as 352g and has now clocked in at a record 404g. Yes, it sounds like Kip is much smaller framed than Bella. But, the relative weight changes I noted for Kip "may" be a proportional representation of what one can expect. Of course, w/o more data from other birds to compare its really tough to make any true conclusions with such a small sample size. One thing I can say is that I believe Kips weight fluctuations are a pretty good example of what may be seen in a healthy bird as they mature, put on muscle etc. B)<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2008/06/22 22:06 Agreed Mark - I don't think we have a large enough sampling of greys that went from clipped to flight in order to see what the average percentage of weight gain would be. Either way... given this dicussion, I think aside from learning that she chows down a lot more then Dayo does :laugh: I think we're more then likely fine. It would seem to me she wouldn't eat if she didn't want to no? Well, speak of the devil, she just made a trek down the hall way again from the other side if the house. So... once she trusts herself enough to fly, that trek should be pretty quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Very interesting topic, with Charts providing great data. Here is Dayo's Chart from the Day I brought him home last August to now. <br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/06/22 23:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 """"""How can one tell if one's grey is bigboned or over weight? """ keel bone has nothing to do with the classification of a bird's size. It's the whole frame of the bird that matters. Most don't know what catagory their bird is in so the best way to judge is usually the age. At 8 to 10 mts, the bird's frame and size is final. Some weight can and will be put on afterward but the size catagory is generally regulated by the frame. Congo African Grey --small frame--380 to 430 medium frame---440 to 485 large frame----510 to 610 Timneh African Grey--small frame--310 medium frame--315 to 325 large frame---335 to 350 All of these figures can vary slightly. My smallest congo grey is 554 My largest congo is 603 My Timneh is 320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Wow Dan! Did that startle you when he lost at the begining? What did that come from? That's really interesting how different they can be. You brought Dayo home a month before I brought Bella home it looks like. She came home at 460 grams and then gained up to 500 and stayed like that from between December 2007 and I'd say the begining of March. In March she started to gain, but the real weight gain happened during the molt and after her new feathers started to grow in. I'm going to weigh Jiggy tomorrow morning and see if he's gained too. He's fully flighted now and has been zipping around all over for a couple of weeks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dave - thanks! Well, that range would put Bella in the big-boned category. Hearing the weights of yours makes me feel better :laugh: Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Ok - where is the camera when you need one!!! AS if Bella knew we were talking about her fragile little figure today :laugh: she pulled a real good one this evening: For dinner we had Israeli couscous, tomato salad, and a rib eye steak. Well Bella had no interest in the tomatos or the couscous - she wanted STEAK! So, I cut her off her little piece and she was chewing away when I had to get up to let the dogs in. The dogs come bolting in, and ran straight for the table where Bella had skewered the steak with her beak and was making off with whole thing!! :woohoo: :woohoo: the dogs eager to get in on the action left me trying to get them to get away and get my steak back from Bella! I felt like I was in the middle of a Wild Kingdom show trying to defend my dinner from the wild pack!! Goodness when I tried to get it away from her she sqawked and hollared as if I were pulling her feathers out! Yep Dan - I think she eats a little more than Dayo! She feels she has a whole steak coming her way!:woohoo:<br><br>Post edited by: Nychsa, at: 2008/06/23 01:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 LOL - Go Bella Go!!! I must say, she has GreYt taste. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Nychsa wrote: Wow Dan! Did that startle you when he lost at the beginning? What did that come from? That's really interesting how different they can be. Yes, it did startle me. I actually brought 2 Greys homes, Dayo and a female (same age different clutch). We took the female back the next day due to her losing more weight than Dayo. They were both starting to fledge when we brought them home at 16 weeks old. Also, I took a baseline weight the minute I got them home. After speaking with the breeder, she had just fed them before we picked them up. So I know they had at least 20 to 30 grams of formula in them, plus what ever seeds, pellets and bean mix they had eaten also. I was ok, once Dayo leveled out and stayed fairy consistent day to day. What is interesting, is he will gain weight for a week, then start slowly going back down again. I did notice when the colder months started sitting in, he really ate more than previously. As the climate started warming again, his appetite started slowly again. I also take into consideration, since February, he started molting and now is losing the larger Tail and Primary feathers, which I know only weigh a gram or two each, but thats a loss along with all the little downy and smaller feathers as well. I only posted the average for each month. I did not go through each day or week as I believe Mark did. If we can get others to post charts of their Greys weight, this could become a very valuable thread that does not seem to exist anywhere in webland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycos_mom Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Tyco must be a pretty big girl also she weighs in around 590 to 600 she is just getting her flights in also gosh if she put on 50 grams after she starts flying she going to be one big bird she is about 14.5 inches long also thats what I like about her she a big bird and very pretty she eats pretty good also definatly has a good appetite but she's not fat she just looks healthy and I;m sure thats the case with Bella also <br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2008/06/23 15:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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